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Back when Games Workshop released the first plastic Cadians, I wondered why their flak armour did not fully cover their guts. As someone engrossed in history, including historical armour, it always seemed odd. When browsing skis and protective gear in a sports supply store that was shutting down some years ago, it quickly became apparent where that design came from: Chest protective gear from motocross, and in particular protective kit in American football.

Are there other examples of modern sports equipment influencing aesthetic design in science fiction and fantasy? Please share and illustrate with pictures along with text.

The post apocalyptic genre is full of characters wearing sports equipment into battle. Also, aren't the spacesuits from Alien made in part from sports equipment? I suspect most science fiction movies made before 2000 had to make use of whatever was handy for budgetary reasons, which would tend towards military surplus and sporting equipment.

I think it also has a lot to do with Cadians’ odd proportions. The body armor goes to right above their belt line, which is where a lot of modern body armor goes to. It doesn’t fully cover the stomach area, sitting around the belly button. I think the Cadian armor is supposed to be sitting around the same area seeing where their belts are. But as I said, their proportions are horrible.

Or the could be modeled off athletic gear and wearing their belts like old men.

 Thanatos73 wrote:
I think it also has a lot to do with Cadians’ odd proportions. The body armor goes to right above their belt line, which is where a lot of modern body armor goes to. It doesn’t fully cover the stomach area, sitting around the belly button. I think the Cadian armor is supposed to be sitting around the same area seeing where their belts are. But as I said, their proportions are horrible.

Or the could be modeled off athletic gear and wearing their belts like old men.

Part of the issue with the Cadian design is that it mimics some NATO designs for the 'shirts'. Those are actually meant to be field jackets not shirts. The belts are also meant to be not just belts for holding up pants, it's meant to be a heavier duty belt for webbing and field gear.

It makes their proportions a bit odder admittedly when you realize that, but still.

Field jacket or shirt, a belt, for holding up pants or a duty belt isn’t usually worn high above the waist. They’re just really badly proportioned all over.

And I think the armor was meant to be sci-fi-ey and not like modern body armor. So as the op said, probably influenced by athletic equipment or cheap sci-fi movie armor.

On the other hand, Eldar body glove armor looks like it is taking from motorcycle kit. Guess that fits with the preponderance of jet bikes?

Well..... logicly speaking you have literally(?) billions of doods to outfit

it would be cheaper to cover up only the most vital organs.

some modern body armor also only covers the chest area (or at least from what i recall the ceramic or steel insert.)

sure it would be nice to give everyone power armor but that is probably not financially or logistically possible at all.

 Desubot wrote:
Well..... logicly speaking you have literally(?) billions of doods to outfit

it would be cheaper to cover up only the most vital organs.

some modern body armor also only covers the chest area (or at least from what i recall the ceramic or steel insert.)

sure it would be nice to give everyone power armor but that is probably not financially or logistically possible at all.

I'm not sure how much a few more inches of torso armor costs per dood, but it's probably cheaper than paying for a lot of training, transportation and equipment for troops who will freeze up after the third or fourth buddy of theirs dies horribly from being gut-shot.

They invest in Commissars to motivate the troops that freeze over fallen brethren. Plus flak armour is just terrible anyway.

I always thought the Cadian armour was an updated riff on the old RT era IG armour which also only had the shoulder/chest coverage.




That armour always felt more like a nod to the Roman lorica segmentata (there are a few helmets that have a Roman feel too) plus more than a dash of a grab-bag of 80s sci-fi fashion pointers.

I'd put sports equipment as an indirect influence, filtered through the fashion norms of TV/film, rather than a direct one.

Plus, from a modeling / sculpting point of view the shoulder pads make the body/arm seam a whole lot easier to deal with for multipose kits

Armoring the gut reduces flexibility, and a flexible plate generally Has several weak points that reduce the protection.

Likewise, with the advanced tech of the far future, gut shots are probably among the easiest to repair and generally kill far slower than the destruction of a major organ (heaet/brain) giving medics additional time to administer to the wound before the patient expires.

Besides, this is an empire that can expend millions of lives cheaply. The armor is for show and gives the troops a false sense of security. Notice there’s no legprotection either?

inflatablefriend wrote:
They invest in Commissars to motivate the troops that freeze over fallen brethren. Plus flak armour is just terrible anyway.

I always thought the Cadian armour was an updated riff on the old RT era IG armour which also only had the shoulder/chest coverage.




That armour always felt more like a nod to the Roman lorica segmentata (there are a few helmets that have a Roman feel too) plus more than a dash of a grab-bag of 80s sci-fi fashion pointers.

I'd put sports equipment as an indirect influence, filtered through the fashion norms of TV/film, rather than a direct one.

Plus, from a modeling / sculpting point of view the shoulder pads make the body/arm seam a whole lot easier to deal with for multipose kits

Wait... Beastmen are kosher for IG... or is it still Astra Militarum?... armies?

Must. Resist. Urge. to. go. back. to. 40K...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'm not sure how much a few more inches of torso armor costs per dood, but it's probably cheaper than paying for a lot of training, transportation and equipment for troops who will freeze up after the third or fourth buddy of theirs dies horribly from being gut-shot.

To the former: Training? What's that?

To the latter: that's what Commissars are for.

Okay. I stand corrected.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'm not sure how much a few more inches of torso armor costs per dood, but it's probably cheaper than paying for a lot of training, transportation and equipment for troops who will freeze up after the third or fourth buddy of theirs dies horribly from being gut-shot.

To the former: Training? What's that?

To the latter: that's what Commissars are for.

Yep. sure the Canadians are considered da best according their own things but in reality they are grunts and horrifically expendable. keep em cheap keep em plentiful is how the imperium runs them. the true best of da best would probably be the scions. clearlly so with how much armor they get.



they even get knee armor

We all know why they have knee guards.....







.... to protect them from arrows.

 Desubot wrote:


Yep. sure the Canadians are considered da best according their own things but in reality they are grunts and horrifically expendable.

Objection, your honour, gross oversimplification!

Some of us still say "sorry" way too often.

This thread makes me want some new Guardsmen models. As much as I love the Cadians, I find myself buying more Scions since they don't feel so... dated. Maybe we can get some that aren't wearing sports gear, because I cannot unsee this now.

 Kelligula wrote:
This thread makes me want some new Guardsmen models. As much as I love the Cadians, I find myself buying more Scions since they don't feel so... dated. Maybe we can get some that aren't wearing sports gear, because I cannot unsee this now.

The best Guard models.ever will be coming out story in the guise of the Van Saar kit for Necromunda

One could also rationalize that the armor protects the bones/crackable things like sports equipment does. I would also imagine that much like recent/modern military equipment, flak armor is NOT designed to protect from direct weapons fire, but more from shrapnel, ricochets and falling debris. Specifically protecting the important bits of body that stick up over a trench or out of cover while the guardsmen "fearlessly" shoot back at the enemy. I'm sure the Munitorum has crunched the statistics and found that this is the ideal cost effective protection. Any more and you over-invest in and immobilize a guardsman in a prolonged engagement. Any less and the little things like cuts, concussion, headwounds, fatigue start to drop the guardsman as well as the feeling of being naked.

I think the cadian body armour resembling American foosball padding is coincidental - since it (40k) has its genesis in the UK where US style hand-egg variety of football is a novelty at best and "real" football is played with a round ball, is generally not picked up, and the players don't wear body armour.


Moto-X armour also has similarities, but it's designed that way to protect vital areas from trauma (like smashing your kidneys against a stray tree or rock when you inevitably come off the bike after a wrong'un jump.)

I'm not sure how high those Cadians' belts actually are. The tunic (the 2nd edition metal Cadians were based on WW2 German army uniforms, with the helmet more "squared off", and the plastics continue some of those cues) comes down past the crotch to mid-thigh.

Also, I'm sure I've seen descriptions of flak armour that portray it as some sort of heavy-duty ballistic fabric. The armour plates are not the entirety of the flak armour; only reinforcement over the head and upper torso. After all, Catachans, Tanith, Praetorians and Mordians don't have the same hard plates. The heavier plates over more of the body on a Scion are carapace.

I'm too lazy to post a pic but the most obvious influence of armor design and sports equipment would be Halo Spartans and off-road motorcycling helmets and gear.

skysky wrote:
One could also rationalize that the armor protects the bones/crackable things like sports equipment does. I would also imagine that much like recent/modern military equipment, flak armor is NOT designed to protect from direct weapons fire, but more from shrapnel, ricochets and falling debris. Specifically protecting the important bits of body that stick up over a trench or out of cover while the guardsmen "fearlessly" shoot back at the enemy. I'm sure the Munitorum has crunched the statistics and found that this is the ideal cost effective protection. Any more and you over-invest in and immobilize a guardsman in a prolonged engagement. Any less and the little things like cuts, concussion, headwounds, fatigue start to drop the guardsman as well as the feeling of being naked.

What he said. The armour Cadians wear probably isn't supposed to protect them from direct fire, but from shrapnel and debris, that's certainly the intention with real life military helmets in any case. When the forces involved in WW1 began to issue their armies with helmet, it was specifically to prevent soldiers from being killed by falling debris. The Cadian chest armour could be intended to protect the shoulders and upper portion of the torso from shrapnel and debris

Consider how the Astram Militarum fight.

Quite often, it's trench or urbanised areas. So from a resources point of view, anything from the chest down should, in theory, be in cover - removing need for additional armour.

It also allows for greater range of movement. Which also explains the lack of forearm armour. When I'm off LARPing, I can never get my vambraces quite comfy. Too loose, and they move around too much. Too tight, and they restrict wrist mobility. I know that's not exactly 'real world' proof - but it's all I've got

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Consider how the Astram Militarum fight.

Quite often, it's trench or urbanised areas. So from a resources point of view, anything from the chest down should, in theory, be in cover - removing need for additional armour.

It also allows for greater range of movement. Which also explains the lack of forearm armour. When I'm off LARPing, I can never get my vambraces quite comfy. Too loose, and they move around too much. Too tight, and they restrict wrist mobility. I know that's not exactly 'real world' proof - but it's all I've got

Gauntlets/vambraces, elbow pads, kneepads, and greaves were all the hallmark of Carapace Armor as well--so that's why the Cadians proper didn't have it while their Kasrkin models did.

 Stormonu wrote:
Armoring the gut reduces flexibility, and a flexible plate generally Has several weak points that reduce the protection.

Correct, rigid chest armour that comes down to or past the waist means that you can't bend forwards. You see this in sports armour and in current military armour.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

some modern body armor also only covers the chest area (or at least from what i recall the ceramic or steel insert.)

Correct, but not because it's cheaper.