Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, so i have a question, Does Veil of Darkness works T1 with the new Tactical Reinforcements Faq RUles?

There is this point on the FAQ :

- Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and
then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the
Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having
moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the
battlefield as reinforcements.

BUT its also stated in the Tactical Reinforcements rules : '' any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn''
Units that use Veil of time didnt ARRIVES during player turns but are DEPLOYED before the first turn..

I am right so Veil of darkness works right?

If you set the unit up in your deployment zone, and use a stratagem, ability, whatever, that let's you remove it and set it up again anywhere on the battlefield, usually 9" away from enemy units, then yes it works with the new tactical reinforcement rules. Be aware that this rule is beta or a suggestion. I don't remember which one it was. It's not an official rule.

The unit was deployed before the first turn but is now (when you use VoD) arriving during a players first turn.

You can both Arrive now and be previously Deployed.
I certainly read it that you can't VoD (or similar abilities) outside your own deployment zone in the first turn.

So Veil of time cant be used First turn outside of mine deployment zone, but the deceiver grand illusion works right?

It take place before turn 1

Sarevokk wrote:
So Veil of time cant be used First turn outside of mine deployment zone, but the deceiver grand illusion works right?

It take place before turn 1

Yes it would seem the Deceiver still works, it falls in the same window as the examples given with Forward Operatives and SftS. But it also specifically says you can't charge with them.

This same debate is going on with GKs and Gates of Infinity and whether Interceptors can shunt out of the deployment on T1.

What abou Deathmarks ethereal interception. It requires you to deploy within 12 of an enemy unit that arrived from reserves.

Plus Da Jump.

Problem is unit is removed from the battlefield and then arrives back.

Hopefully GW clears it up(hopefully by allowing it) but who knows if they will(they have rather random way of deciding what they answer and what not) and when.

Nebulas1 wrote:
What abou Deathmarks ethereal interception. It requires you to deploy within 12 of an enemy unit that arrived from reserves.

Ethereal Interception does not happen in a players first turn. It happenys in the enemys turn. So it should be ok.

stormcraft wrote:

Nebulas1 wrote:
What abou Deathmarks ethereal interception. It requires you to deploy within 12 of an enemy unit that arrived from reserves.

Ethereal Interception does not happen in a players first turn. It happenys in the enemys turn. So it should be ok.

the enemy is still a player however.

Cheeslord wrote:

stormcraft wrote:

Nebulas1 wrote:
What abou Deathmarks ethereal interception. It requires you to deploy within 12 of an enemy unit that arrived from reserves.

Ethereal Interception does not happen in a players first turn. It happenys in the enemys turn. So it should be ok.

the enemy is still a player however.

BY JOVE! I think he's got it !!

Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield [u][b]during a player’s first turn[/b][/u] must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone

it says FIRST TURN ... not FIRST BATTLE ROUND

Gods damn you 7th edition and your hangovers


so ethereal interception works two ways .. .I can either appear in "The controlling players deployment zone (Not mine) or I can appear anywhere casue it's no longer my first turn!

I choose the latter

True, Ethereal Interception that happens on the 2nd players turn doesn't need to be in your deployment zone with the new rules.

Anything that happens on your first turn will be locked to your deployment zone.

Anything that happens BEFORE the first turn is not.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
True, Ethereal Interception that happens on the 2nd players turn doesn't need to be in your deployment zone with the new rules.

"A player's first turn" refers to either player. If it said "It's controlling player's first turn" then it would be allowed to DS outside the deployment zone. I don't think it works the way you think it does.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
True, Ethereal Interception that happens on the 2nd players turn doesn't need to be in your deployment zone with the new rules.

"A player's first turn" refers to either player. If it said "It's controlling player's first turn" then it would be allowed to DS outside the deployment zone. I don't think it works the way you think it does.

That is also a very good point. I concede that!

Ignore bizare double post edit.

PSA

That means BA upon wings of fire works as well. Good to know.

Why do people word their questions so dumb... It was always usable. Just not very useful. ^^

Hope they release this as an update to the faq some time soon and don't wait until September.

 Ordana wrote:
Why do people word their questions so dumb... It was always usable. Just not very useful. ^^
Hope they release this as an update to the faq some time soon and don't wait until September.

Agreed. One could argue that the answer just says it is usable, and not that it can go outside of deployment zone because of the way the question and answers were worded

 ikeulhu wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Why do people word their questions so dumb... It was always usable. Just not very useful. ^^
Hope they release this as an update to the faq some time soon and don't wait until September.

Agreed. One could argue that the answer just says it is usable, and not that it can go outside of deployment zone because of the way the question and answers were worded

already had that argument back, and that its from community not the rule writers, so not to be used as an answer.

personally would let people use it even though i prefer using veil of darkness later on.

that being said, i would rather not have 30 orks in my face turn one either. but that is just my view lol

Hopefully gw puts that on actual faq. Facebook comment is not easy to find and above screenshot is useless as proof.

If gw had actually written clearly like units put to reserve during deployment. As is da jump etc fullfilled requirement of rule which is arriving on turn 1.

That or they changed their mind

I don’t quite see the problem with psychic powers or strategems that are used after the game starts as they are 1 time per turn use abilities generally usable on only 1 unit. The real problem was mass reserve manipulation overload. However if certain individual abilities become an issue they can always limit those.

Problem was sloppy rules writing which means it was impossible to say can you da jump outside dz or not. Only location of rule says yes but rule text says no. So without clarification from gw(though above doesn't answer fully due to badly written question) whichever you go is house rule.

Rule nobody can say for sure how it works is problem

 ikeulhu wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Why do people word their questions so dumb... It was always usable. Just not very useful. ^^
Hope they release this as an update to the faq some time soon and don't wait until September.

Agreed. One could argue that the answer just says it is usable, and not that it can go outside of deployment zone because of the way the question and answers were worded

Plus YMDC specifically says we can't rely on e-mails so I'm betting Facebook posts fall into the same category, at least for this forum.

Yeah, GW really needs to put out an official errata or FAQ (for the FAQ no less! Why am I not surprised, GW?) stating how the rule is supposed to interact with these kind of powers. Until then it will be unclear and up to event organizers to decide.

Maybe this will convince you :

"You’ll still be able to use your Tactical Reserves to keep units safe in the first turn, and Stratagems that allow redeployment still have a strong niche but now, to make the best use of your units that deploy from reserves, you’ll have to wait until the second turn."

From the buttom of this page : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/16/warhammer-40000-big-faq-1-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

 p5freak wrote:
Maybe this will convince you :

"You’ll still be able to use your Tactical Reserves to keep units safe in the first turn, and Stratagems that allow redeployment still have a strong niche but now, to make the best use of your units that deploy from reserves, you’ll have to wait until the second turn."

From the buttom of this page : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/16/warhammer-40000-big-faq-1-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

Fluffy wording around the rule does not change what the rule does.
I agree that GW most likely intended for these abilities to work outside your deployment zone turn 1 but that's not what the rule says.

Not enough without official gw word. Somebody at least provide direct link to that fb post or was that bogus after all? Screenshot is worthless as proof. Not that fb post is much better but better than nothing

 p5freak wrote:
Maybe this will convince you :

"You’ll still be able to use your Tactical Reserves to keep units safe in the first turn, and Stratagems that allow redeployment still have a strong niche but now, to make the best use of your units that deploy from reserves, you’ll have to wait until the second turn."

From the buttom of this page : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/16/warhammer-40000-big-faq-1-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

Unfortunately, that really says nothing about whether or not these powers can be used to go outside deployment zone on turn 1.

tneva82 wrote:
Not enough without official gw word. Somebody at least provide direct link to that fb post or was that bogus after all? Screenshot is worthless as proof. Not that fb post is much better but better than nothing

You need someone to do that for you?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2012581169062512&id=1575682476085719

This is as close as I can get you to a direct link. I'll include a cropped screenshot as well. You can search for the warhammer community account, find the big faq post, and scan to the fourth or so comment if you need to see it.