One of the Biggest Problems with Tactical Reserve Beta Rule - Big FAQ

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**peteralmo**

Mass turn one deep striking is a problem that needs some adjustment. However, can we agree that although the deep striking assaulting units are still viable, still just as strong, they'll just be bringing there potency to bear on turn 2 rather than turn 1, that that isn't actually the BIG problem to the assault armies. Would you agree that the BIG problem is that assault based deep striking armies now have to

answer the question of what you do with the other half of the army that doesn't deep strike, especially if you go second. That other half will have to endure two rounds of fire before your assault half shows up, this is what "breaks" the assault lists and probably makes them unplayable competitively. The lists work because the assaulting units command the opponents attention, providing pseudo protection

for your backfield static units. Now the opponent gets to take there 2000 points and casually annihilate your 1000 points over two turns, then when your other 1000 points show up, they have a major advantage and will deal with it easily. I think this beta rule doesn't go far enough. I think to achieve balance you need to restrict turn one deep striking to your deployment zone, but ALSO restrict turn one

shooting into your opponents deployment zone. Do you agree with any of that?

**fe40k**

I think this isn't the first thread that discusses both the FAQ, and this problem.

That said, it's a real problem people (especially melee armies), will be facing; and one that isn't properly address enough by people arguing in favor of the new ruling.

**A.T.**

So... balance out your opponent not being able to shoot at the half of the army you have in reserve, by not allowing them to shoot at the half you don't have in reserve?

That doesn't seem practical. Unless you mean nightfighting style 'restrict'.

**BaconCatBug**

Make matched play use the Night Fight rules. There, all but 1 of your units is now -3 to hit. Hurts Gunlines, buffs assault and close range firefight armies and lowers first turn alpha strike.

**peteralmo**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Make matched play use the Night Fight rules. There, all but 1 of your units is now -3 to hit. Hurts Gunlines, buffs assault and close range firefight armies and lowers first turn alpha strike.

I'd be very happy with this.

**Dionysodorus**

This doesn't make that much sense to me. The combined effect of these is just that your opponent has an extra turn to move units around before you hit them while you have an extra turn to shoot at their infiltrators with half of your army. That's not much of a nerf to deep striking. It's not clear that it's a nerf to it at all. Maybe you want to argue that the new restriction on how much power you can deep strike is alone sufficient, but the other beta rule and what you're proposing don't seem to add much on top of that.

**Purifying Tempest**

IG has literally been shooting into my deployment zone since I began playing 40K... I still manage to do 50/50 or better against them without resorting to sleazy deep strike trickery.

I'm grinning at the thought of starting Banshees in a Wave Serpent on the deployment line, running them out of the transport turn 1 with their psychic support for 8+3+d6" (or a flat 6 with the stratagem)... and then if I NEED to Quicken them, there's that. And then charging them 2d6+3", or if I need a more reliable charge, using the Biel-tan Aspect Warrior stratagem for another +2" or +3" depending on army, and some rerolls.

Then after that easter basket of jackassery, loading 10 Guardians and their platform onto the Serpent and following the banshees up the field and supporting them with some Shuriken dakka.

I mean, it probably isn't good... but it is an easy turn 1 assault without deep strike. 17" + 2d6+(3 or 5 or 6) assault. May be able to get deeper than with Webway Strike.

Btw: Are there actually REAL melee armies? The most melee army I've seen was still augmented with a fair amount of fire support.

**Bharring**

But then you're assaulting their front line with *banshees*. Good luck if it's anything but Marines...

**peteralmo**

Dionysodorus wrote:
This doesn't make that much sense to me. The combined effect of these is just that your opponent has an extra turn to move units around before you hit them while you have an extra turn to shoot at their infiltrators with half of your army. That's not much of a nerf to deep striking. It's not clear that it's a nerf to it at all. Maybe you want to argue that the new restriction on how much power you can deep strike is alone sufficient, but the other beta rule and what you're proposing don't seem to add much on top of that.

I'm not sure what you don't understand or don't find imbalanced. If you are facing a gunline that is 2000 points of pure fire power. And you're blood angels with 1000 points tied up in assault units (sanguinary guard, death company, etc) all deep striking, and another 1000 points for some troops choices and complimentary fire support, and the blood angles player gets second turn - the 2000 points of pure gunline has two full turns of shooting to decimate the blood angels 1000 points of troops and various other odds and ends, all before the real strength of the army shows up. Do you see this as lopsided and therefore problematic?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

Btw: Are there actually REAL melee armies? The most melee army I've seen was still augmented with a fair amount of fire support.

Blood Angels is the big one here, there whole codex is designed with the real strengths being in deep striking melee units, unless you consider the baal predator the stand out of the codex.

**SemperMortis**

shooting is all powerful in 7th and 8th and now we finally got a buff in 8th only to have it taken away.

Deepstriking my Kommandos into my enemies deployment zone kept me from losing 120 boyz turns 1-2 and allowing me to have a chance of reaching his lines without being utterly destroyed.

**Purifying Tempest**

Bharring wrote:
But then you're assaulting their front line with *banshees*. Good luck if it's anything but Marines...

I said it probably wasn't good. More for fun than anything. Then again the people I play with bring just as much "for the lols" as we bring for efficiency. Never know if it is a joke you're running into or if it is something that is about to maul you. I think the game is missing a good bit of "I did it for the lols"... well, maybe not the game, but dakka definitely is.

But, the assertion is that melee armies/units/whatever are dead because of the FAQ changes to Deep Strike... and that example kind of spits in the face of the assertion.

I guess I could give a more practical example of any chaos unit in a Renegade Legion advancing + warp time to get to melee turn 1. Or Warp Talons. But none of these models are inherently broken and require some finesse to do these things with... thus it is labeled bad.

**peteralmo**

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Bharring wrote:
But then you're assaulting their front line with *banshees*. Good luck if it's anything but Marines...

I said it probably wasn't good. More for fun than anything. Then again the people I play with bring just as much "for the lols" as we bring for efficiency. Never know if it is a joke you're running into or if it is something that is about to maul you. I think the game is missing a good bit of "I did it for the lols"... well, maybe not the game, but dakka definitely is.

But, the assertion is that melee armies/units/whatever are dead because of the FAQ changes to Deep Strike... and that example kind of spits in the face of the assertion.

I guess I could give a more practical example of any chaos unit in a Renegade Legion advancing + warp time to get to melee turn 1. Or Warp Talons. But none of these models are inherently broken and require some finesse to do these things with... thus it is labeled bad.

Let me clarify, assault units that have a viable way of assaulting turn 1 without using deep strike, your banshee example, shining spears, one blood angels unit using the forlorn fury stratagem, various tyranid shenanigans, are unaffected, buy their are a few codices that really rely on deep striking multiple units that synergize with one another to work. Even forlorn fury for BA, any good BA melee unit is going to have some amount of character support buffing it, forlorn fury does nothing for that scenario. There are very real whole armies deeply affected by this, again, competitively. Sure in a casual game this rule won't break your army. But if you were striving to win a big tournament with a BA army, good luck after this change.

**HMint**

Here is a problem with limiting shooting first turn:
I already know I can successfuly run an assault list that starts 100% on the table. It is a Kraken horde list.
If you cripple shooting first turn, my horde will happily overrun any shooting opposition, escpecially if I happen to get first turn.

We had a good balance in archetypes so far, but they broke it.
Now fixing it will be very hard, because the balance is not just a two way seesaw.

**Purifying Tempest**

So what you're saying is... the armies that were designed to get there early on can get there regardless... the only difference now is 1) the volume which can do it and 2) they have to be deployed instead of held in reserve to do it turn 1?

Meanwhile, things like Plasma took a much harder nerf to their deep striking tactics... from the same nerf. And much more of them were affected, at the top levels, than the swarms of Death Company and Tyranid guys who actually favored melee over a safe drop site for dakka.

The surgical nature of deep strike ranged attacks were much more unfair in the competitive scene than getting overran with... whatever model has an axe today. And it largely boiled down to Rapid Fire 1 with 24" range is always going to fire twice in the 9-12" band... Assault units out of deep strike without Warp Time or shenanegans still only have a 44% chance to make that 9" charge.

**Bharring**

Well, how do you balance vs an on-board assault list in a game where the receiving side (probably gunline, but definitely not pure CC) has a 50/50 chance of either getting an extra turn of shooting or losing a whole turn of shooting (depending on how you look at it)?

You can't really balance the IG Gunline vs footslogging bug horde if you don't know if the gunline will have 1 or 2 turns of unfettered shooting until the first few dicerolls. That's such a huge swing that it'll decide too many games.

So what's the alternative?

**VoidSempai**

Purifying Tempest wrote:
IG has literally been shooting into my deployment zone since I began playing 40K... I still manage to do 50/50 or better against them without resorting to sleazy deep strike trickery.

I'm grinning at the thought of starting Banshees in a Wave Serpent on the deployment line, running them out of the transport turn 1 with their psychic support for 8+3+d6" (or a flat 6 with the stratagem)... and then if I NEED to Quicken them, there's that. And then charging them 2d6+3", or if I need a more reliable charge, using the Biel-tan Aspect Warrior stratagem for another +2" or +3" depending on army, and some rerolls.

Then after that easter basket of jackassery, loading 10 Guardians and their platform onto the Serpent and following the banshees up the field and supporting them with some Shuriken dakka.

I mean, it probably isn't good... but it is an easy turn 1 assault without deep strike. 17" + 2d6+(3 or 5 or 6) assault. May be able to get deeper than with Webway Strike.

Btw: Are there actually REAL melee armies? The most melee army I've seen was still augmented with a fair amount of fire support.

Well there's khorne daemon and slaanesh daemon that are almost pure 100% melee, and heavily geared towards that. Both those army are now more or less DoA now.

Also, just want to say that those bandshee wont be able to move out of their transport turn 1. They are outside of the game (transport) and being set up turn 1, so they will have to be placed inside the deployment zone, like everyone else.
And like people said, you'll mostly be charging guardsman, cultist, brimstone, etc, all alone because the rest of the deep strike wont arrive until a turn later, so those banshee will kill one unit, then promptly get shot.

**Purifying Tempest**

VoidSempai wrote:
Purifying Tempest wrote:
IG has literally been shooting into my deployment zone since I began playing 40K... I still manage to do 50/50 or better against them without resorting to sleazy deep strike trickery.

I'm grinning at the thought of starting Banshees in a Wave Serpent on the deployment line, running them out of the transport turn 1 with their psychic support for 8+3+d6" (or a flat 6 with the stratagem)... and then if I NEED to Quicken them, there's that. And then charging them 2d6+3", or if I need a more reliable charge, using the Biel-tan Aspect Warrior stratagem for another +2" or +3" depending on army, and some rerolls.

Then after that easter basket of jackassery, loading 10 Guardians and their platform onto the Serpent and following the banshees up the field and supporting them with some Shuriken dakka.

I mean, it probably isn't good... but it is an easy turn 1 assault without deep strike. 17" + 2d6+(3 or 5 or 6) assault. May be able to get deeper than with Webway Strike.

Btw: Are there actually REAL melee armies? The most melee army I've seen was still augmented with a fair amount of fire support.

Well there's khorne daemon and slaanesh daemon that are almost pure 100% melee, and heavily geared towards that. Both those army are now more or less DoA now.

Also, just want to say that those bandshee wont be able to move out of their transport turn 1. They are outside of the game (transport) and being set up turn 1, so they will have to be placed inside the deployment zone, like everyone else.
And like people said, you'll mostly be charging guardsman, cultist, brimstone, etc, all alone because the rest of the deep strike wont arrive until a turn later, so those banshee will kill one unit, then promptly get shot.

You're saying Slaanesh wasn't DoA already? What codex are you referencing, so I can get my friend some help for his army!

Also, the banshees are not "arriving", they are "disembarking".

And yes, they will be charging a screen, if I cannot punch a hole in a line with the rest of my army. But I'm the type of gent that will crash 14 Death Company models into 10 Cultists because the carnage is hilarious. Charging banshees into Guardsmen isn't that much more of a stretch for me.

**Dionysodorus**

peteralmo wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
This doesn't make that much sense to me. The combined effect of these is just that your opponent has an extra turn to move units around before you hit them while you have an extra turn to shoot at their infiltrators with half of your army. That's not much of a nerf to deep striking. It's not clear that it's a nerf to it at all. Maybe you want to argue that the new restriction on how much power you can deep strike is alone sufficient, but the other beta rule and what you're proposing don't seem to add much on top of that.

I'm not sure what you don't understand or don't find imbalanced. If you are facing a gunline that is 2000 points of pure fire power. And you're blood angels with 1000 points tied up in assault units (sanguinary guard, death company, etc) all deep striking, and another 1000 points for some troops choices and complimentary fire support, and the blood angles player gets second turn - the 2000 points of pure gunline has two full turns of shooting to decimate the blood angels 1000 points of troops and various other odds and ends, all before the real strength of the army shows up. Do you see this as lopsided and therefore problematic?

I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. Like I said, it sounds to me like you get basically all of what you want by getting rid of the new "can't deep strike outside of your deployment zone on turn 1" restriction. Why would you keep it and instead add another new rule where the combined effect of them is basically a wash?

**VoidSempai**

Also, the banshees are not "arriving", they are "disembarking".

And yes, they will be charging a screen, if I cannot punch a hole in a line with the rest of my army. But I'm the type of gent that will crash 14 Death Company models into 10 Cultists because the carnage is hilarious. Charging banshees into Guardsmen isn't that much more of a stretch for me.

"Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone ."
Since there's no definition to arriving on the battlefield, let's take a look at the transport rules and the reinforcement rules

"Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, " and "Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner ... "

"When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that all of its models are within 3" of the transport"

you set up the unit mid-turn, so that seems to fulfill the requirement for being reinforcement.

Seems to be worded as saying you can't disembark outside of deployment zone turn 1 to me, even though I agree it ridiculous and stupid. Even worse, a transport being blown up turn 1 by the enemie, if it was outside the deployment zone, would kill all it's passenger because they couldn't be placed within 3" of the transport and also within the deployment zone.

And trust me, I have no advantage of playing these rule this way, I want to play assault chaos space marine, so before I used deepstrike, now I need to use lots of transport. But that seems like an unintended consequence of the new ruling and it sucks. :(

**Bharring**

There's an FAQ that things disembarking from a Drop POd are not arriving from Reserves.

I'd argue it's an erratta, but it'd be *very* hard to claim disembarking from a Drop Pod is not arriving from Reserves while disembarking from a Serpent that started the game on the table is.

**Daedalus81**

VoidSempai wrote:

Well there's khorne daemon and slaanesh daemon that are almost pure 100% melee, and heavily geared towards that. Both those army are now more or less DoA now.

If I had the time and money i'm fairly confident that I could prove that wrong. When I get time maybe someone could challenge me on Table Top Simulator?

**VoidSempai**

Daedalus81 wrote:
VoidSempai wrote:

Well there's khorne daemon and slaanesh daemon that are almost pure 100% melee, and heavily geared towards that. Both those army are now more or less DoA now.

If I had the time and money i'm fairly confident that I could prove that wrong. When I get time maybe someone could challenge me on Table Top Simulator?

It's not that I don't believe you, and you could certainly prove me wrong, but khorne has, what... exactly 1 shooty unit? (that is very good mind you)
so, 3 x 100 points, you have 300 points right here. the rest of the 1700 points are all melee focussed. You'll need at least 700 points on the board turn 1, and the rest in deepstrike. So now you have to use 700 points of melee, non shooty, no transport, daemon, plus an average of 9 shots at S8 AP-2, Dam2, to try to kill the ennemie screen before you can charge with the bloodthirster and bloodletters waiting in deepstrike. And try not to get tabled, because you're almost all T3 or T4, Sv 5++.

**Daedalus81**

VoidSempai wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
VoidSempai wrote:

Well there's khorne daemon and slaanesh daemon that are almost pure 100% melee, and heavily geared towards that. Both those army are now more or less DoA now.

If I had the time and money i'm fairly confident that I could prove that wrong. When I get time maybe someone could challenge me on Table Top Simulator?

It's not that I don't believe you, and you could certainly prove me wrong, but khorne has, what... exactly 1 shooty unit? (that is very good mind you)
so, 3 x 100 points, you have 300 points right here. the rest of the 1700 points are all melee focussed. You'll need at least 700 points on the board turn 1, and the rest in deepstrike. So now you have to use 700 points of melee, non shooty, no transport, daemon, plus an average of 9 shots at S8 AP-2, Dam2, to try to kill the ennemie screen before you can charge with the bloodthirster and bloodletters waiting in deepstrike. And try not to get tabled, because you're almost all T3 or T4, Sv 5++.

I wouldn't even deepstrike. Well, maybe a unit or two of BL, but that's it. One skullcannon, one soulgrinder, and two BTs. Letters and other HQs to fill out 2 battalions for 13 CP.

**Ordana**

Bharring wrote:
There's an FAQ that things disembarking from a Drop POd are not arriving from Reserves.

I'd argue it's an erratta, but it'd be *very* hard to claim disembarking from a Drop Pod is not arriving from Reserves while disembarking from a Serpent that started the game on the table is.

Ah but Reserves is a significant thing there.
The Tactical Reserves rule, despite its name, does not say it applies to units arriving from Reserve but to units that arrive on the battlefield.

So while you are not arriving from reserve, you are still arriving on the battlefield. (this is for things like Veil of Darkness, on Wings of Fire, Gate, ect)

However I do not believe that disembarking from a transport is 'arriving on the battlefield'. It is already on the battlefield inside its transport.

Also note that the faq did not say a unit from a Drop Pod is not arriving from Reserves, mere that you cannot shoot a unit disembarking from a transport that arrived from reserves (Because the unit arrives on the battlefield while still embarked and is therefor not a legal target when the enemy is allowed to respond with shooting)

**peteralmo**

Dionysodorus wrote:
peteralmo wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
This doesn't make that much sense to me. The combined effect of these is just that your opponent has an extra turn to move units around before you hit them while you have an extra turn to shoot at their infiltrators with half of your army. That's not much of a nerf to deep striking. It's not clear that it's a nerf to it at all. Maybe you want to argue that the new restriction on how much power you can deep strike is alone sufficient, but the other beta rule and what you're proposing don't seem to add much on top of that.

I'm not sure what you don't understand or don't find imbalanced. If you are facing a gunline that is 2000 points of pure fire power. And you're blood angels with 1000 points tied up in assault units (sanguinary guard, death company, etc) all deep striking, and another 1000 points for some troops choices and complimentary fire support, and the blood angles player gets second turn - the 2000 points of pure gunline has two full turns of shooting to decimate the blood angels 1000 points of troops and various other odds and ends, all before the real strength of the army shows up. Do you see this as lopsided and therefore problematic?

I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. Like I said, it sounds to me like you get basically all of what you want by getting rid of the new "can't deep strike outside of your deployment zone on turn 1" restriction. Why would you keep it and instead add another new rule where the combined effect of them is basically a wash?

This is definitely not a wash, the gunline army has at least a full turn to move and shoot at units outside your opponents deployment zone before deep strikers arrive. That turn of movement can be used to strategically set yourself up in the best position to receive those deep strikers, and to screen off potential landing sites for those deep strikers. Before, if the assault army went first, you had no such turn for tactical adjustment.

**Purifying Tempest**

VoidSempai wrote:

Also, the banshees are not "arriving", they are "disembarking".

And yes, they will be charging a screen, if I cannot punch a hole in a line with the rest of my army. But I'm the type of gent that will crash 14 Death Company models into 10 Cultists because the carnage is hilarious. Charging banshees into Guardsmen isn't that much more of a stretch for me.

"Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone ."
Since there's no definition to arriving on the battlefield, let's take a look at the transport rules and the reinforcement rules

"Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, " and "Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner ... "

"When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that all of its models are within 3" of the transport"

you set up the unit mid-turn, so that seems to fulfill the requirement for being reinforcement.

Seems to be worded as saying you can't disembark outside of deployment zone turn 1 to me, even though I agree it ridiculous and stupid. Even worse, a transport being blown up turn 1 by the enemie, if it was outside the deployment zone, would kill all it's passenger because they couldn't be placed within 3" of the transport and also within the deployment zone.

And trust me, I have no advantage of playing these rule this way, I want to play assault chaos space marine, so before I used deepstrike, now I need to use lots of transport. But that seems like an unintended consequence of the new ruling and it sucks. :(

So units who have not disembarked from a transport after turn 3 are removed from play?

Now that is funny.

Although the beta rule only says arrives (not arrives from reserves), the above blob specifically gives context to the rules that the beta rule is referencing. I mean, it could be cleaned up a bit by GW (like they did with the Smite rule where it now adds +1 WC instead of -1 cast roll), but I'm pretty sure to use your line of interpretation is inherently wrong due to "units embarked on a vehicle turn 3 are destroyed because they haven't arrived".

Anyways, not like I am a great player, and everything still could work, you just lose 3 inches and access to stuff like warp time and quicken... but I am pretty sure the rule is going to work counter to your interpretation.

**VoidSempai**

Purifying Tempest wrote:
VoidSempai wrote:

Also, the banshees are not "arriving", they are "disembarking".

And yes, they will be charging a screen, if I cannot punch a hole in a line with the rest of my army. But I'm the type of gent that will crash 14 Death Company models into 10 Cultists because the carnage is hilarious. Charging banshees into Guardsmen isn't that much more of a stretch for me.

"Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone ."
Since there's no definition to arriving on the battlefield, let's take a look at the transport rules and the reinforcement rules

"Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, " and "Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner ... "

"When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that all of its models are within 3" of the transport"

you set up the unit mid-turn, so that seems to fulfill the requirement for being reinforcement.

Seems to be worded as saying you can't disembark outside of deployment zone turn 1 to me, even though I agree it ridiculous and stupid. Even worse, a transport being blown up turn 1 by the enemie, if it was outside the deployment zone, would kill all it's passenger because they couldn't be placed within 3" of the transport and also within the deployment zone.

And trust me, I have no advantage of playing these rule this way, I want to play assault chaos space marine, so before I used deepstrike, now I need to use lots of transport. But that seems like an unintended consequence of the new ruling and it sucks. :(

So units who have not disembarked from a transport after turn 3 are removed from play?

Now that is funny.

Although the beta rule only says arrives (not arrives from reserves), the above blob specifically gives context to the rules that the beta rule is referencing. I mean, it could be cleaned up a bit by GW (like they did with the Smite rule where it now adds +1 WC instead of -1 cast roll), but I'm pretty sure to use your line of interpretation is inherently wrong due to "units embarked on a vehicle turn 3 are destroyed because they haven't arrived".

Anyways, not like I am a great player, and everything still could work, you just lose 3 inches and access to stuff like warp time and quicken... but I am pretty sure the rule is going to work counter to your interpretation.

Oh I do hope so, it's just that right now, when reading the rule, one could make a very strong case that things cannot disembark outside deployment zone. And yes, thing that go into transport after turn 3 should theoretically die. I know it sounds silly, and it's not HIWPI, but, personally, I would not like to play that basilisk can shoot without needing LoS, and it's still the rules you know :s .

I guess i'm still super salty after the faq. Leave me be for a while and i'll prep right up soon enough

.

**Purifying Tempest**

Watch out for those transports... they get really salty late in the game. One could argue that they are very toxic late in the game!

**punisher357**

peteralmo wrote:
Mass turn one deep striking is a problem that needs some adjustment. However, can we agree that although the deep striking assaulting units are still viable, still just as strong, they'll just be bringing there potency to bear on turn 2 rather than turn 1, that that isn't actually the BIG problem to the assault armies. Would you agree that the BIG problem is that assault based deep striking armies now have to

answer the question of what you do with the other half of the army that doesn't deep strike, especially if you go second. That other half will have to endure two rounds of fire before your assault half shows up, this is what "breaks" the assault lists and probably makes them unplayable competitively. The lists work because the assaulting units command the opponents attention, providing pseudo protection

for your backfield static units. Now the opponent gets to take there 2000 points and casually annihilate your 1000 points over two turns, then when your other 1000 points show up, they have a major advantage and will deal with it easily. I think this beta rule doesn't go far enough. I think to achieve balance you need to restrict turn one deep striking to your deployment zone, but ALSO restrict turn one

shooting into your opponents deployment zone. Do you agree with any of that?

This is a long response so I put a spoiler for part of it

So here's my view on this.....it's just my opinion, but I feel like alpha strikes were a problem. Essentially they leave nothing but chaff on the board in case they don't get first turn, then, whether they get first or second turn, they strike in and take a huge portion of points from their opponent's shooting list (in theory). Then the person who got hit is playing catch-up the rest of the game while the alpha striker only loses the units they didn't mind losing because the heavy hitters and high priority units weren't on the board. They're allowed to deep-strike in and attack from the strongest position (both figuratively and literally) that they can choose.

Spoiler:

**HMint**

Well, it seems your opinion is based on false information, because the only deepstriking lists that won tournaments are flyrant lists (if you discount defensive deepstrike with reapers, which is still possible).
And those don't even try to get into combat turn 1. They are mostly shooty flyrants, that will only attack on turn 2.

Flyrant got triple nerfed in FAQ, so no reason to break the entire game over it as well.