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Hey so I've had a slowly growing guard collection for a while now based entirely on tanks with supporting guardsmen for chaff. I was looking to bring some artillery into my army and was wondering what is suggested from a competitive standpoint. I was looking at the basilisk and manticore mainly. I hear people highly praise the basilisk, but I find the rate of fire leading me towards the manticore. Any thoughts or suggestions on which to go with? I was thinking of getting at least 2, but maybe 3+ models to add.

3 Basilisks and 2 Manticores are going to cost about the same. Roughly speaking, the basilisks will net 12.3 shots every turn, while the manticores will net 14 shots on average with a bell curve distribution making most of your results 10~18 shots per turn for 4 turns. The Manticores are overall higher firepower, but take fewer shots to disable. Basilisks net a more reliable outcome with a skewed distribution toward the higher 3 results possible, so you will around 12 shots quite reliably with fewer whiffs.

Make your choice accordingly. Basilisks are more durable and reliable, Manticores burn brighter for 4 turns.

Basilisks are good, but if you're playing from a competitive standpoint, Manticores are better - you're not likely to hit the 4turn firing limit anyways (most tournament games go to turn 3/4 max), so the extra amounts of firepower vastly outweigh the turn limitations.

That said, a new FAQ just dropped, and people are claiming it helps make games to go turn 6... so maybe wait for a few tournament results before deciding?

Manticores still frontload damage, which is a massive deal, since whoever gets off the better first strike/more damage before they die tends to come out stronger.

Games in 8th don't last into turn 5 anyway, you'll be tabled or have been tabled. The Manticore wins out in almost every regard. Make them Catachan for extra dakka.

Depends on targets but for example against T6-T8 3+ save basilisk wins out against manticore for points. Ditto against same T 2+. Manticore wins slightly if vs 4+ save. Obviously T5 and T9 are for manticore's advantage

Manticores look stupid, Basilisks look cool. Easy choice.

And both will hopefully be nerfed soon.

KinGensai wrote:
3 Basilisks and 2 Manticores are going to cost about the same. Roughly speaking, the basilisks will net 12.3 shots every turn, while the manticores will net 14 shots on average with a bell curve distribution making most of your results 10~18 shots per turn for 4 turns. The Manticores are overall higher firepower, but take fewer shots to disable. Basilisks net a more reliable outcome with a skewed distribution toward the higher 3 results possible, so you will around 12 shots quite reliably with fewer whiffs.

Make your choice accordingly. Basilisks are more durable and reliable, Manticores burn brighter for 4 turns.

This is a very good assessment IMO. Though I'd add on top that the basilisk will be better for units in cover, the extra point of AP negating it.

Personally I tend to run a Basilisk, a Manticore and a Colossus Bombard in my artillery line. I'm sure lots of people will say this is the last thing you should do, and they're probably right, but it helps me cover my bases and it works for me. So you could always consider eventually acquiring both.

One important note on the 3:2 ratio is that the Basilisk can be taken in squadrons, while the Manticore requires a heavy support slot per model. So the actual Basilisk to Manticore ratio that you can bring may favor the Basilisk even more, especially if you want to do things like spamming cheap mortar HWS in those slots.

 Crimson wrote:
Manticores look stupid, Basilisks look cool. Easy choice.

And both will hopefully be nerfed soon.

If they didn't nerf guard last week what makes you think they ever will?

If guard starts dominating like some people on here think they will then GW will probably smack us with the nerf bat come next FAQ or CA. Deepstrike was the big thing up till now and it just got nerfed, if gunlines become the next big thing then they will likely get nerfed too.

Edit: for a more on point response, Manticore's are a lot more convenient and space efficient to fit in cases, no long barrel or fragile railings to worry about.

My thinking on the damage output on between basilisk and manticore is that the manticore would likely win out because it is firing a straight 2d6 (If you run catachan they even re-roll one of those) to a 2d6, but you only take the highest and of course can re-roll if you go catachan. So probably 5 or 6 shots with the basilisk and 8 or 9 with the manticore average I think. Now the basilisk does have ap-3 which is a really big deal compared to the manticores ap-2 and is around a 35 points cheaper or so?

Manticore though is smaller and easier to keep out of Los which is a big win for it.

Another thing I would note is that manticores do better if being taken in small numbers. If you find you only want 1 or 2 artillery units, manticores can be a better bet as they front load more damage on a smaller footprint. Basilisks shine when you take them en masse and decide to double down on artillery. For example I run a lot of Russe's and like my manticores splashed in as support. Whereas if I was going to run basilisks I would double down and take almost entirely basilisk for heavy support.

Por que no los dos?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
My thinking on the damage output on between basilisk and manticore is that the manticore would likely win out because it is firing a straight 2d6 (If you run catachan they even re-roll one of those) to a 2d6, but you only take the highest and of course can re-roll if you go catachan. So probably 5 or 6 shots with the basilisk and 8 or 9 with the manticore average I think. Now the basilisk does have ap-3 which is a really big deal compared to the manticores ap-2 and is around a 35 points cheaper or so?

Manticore though is smaller and easier to keep out of Los which is a big win for it.

Yes manticore has 2d6 but 4.5 per basilisk in average(not sure how it comes with catachan for both) and extra AP which is more useful than extra S and higher price means that against many targets you are better off with basilisk. Exceptions being 4+ guys and T5/T9-T10 guys.

Depends what you are facing but I would wager basilisk is most versatile out of the two. Manticore is now bit of a niche after price hike.

Get one of each. Problem solved. Shatter skies.