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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I was looking at the datasheets for the Forge World titans and it struck me that all large vehicles from Rhinos to Land Raiders should really have had the Infernal God-engine rules.

Sure, a Land Raider has Power of the Machine Spirit, but that still doesn't address getting pinned down in close combat with troops or not being able to shoot while falling back.

So here's the Infernal God-engine rules with the words Chaos Warhound Titan replaced with Land Raider, and TITANIC replaced with VEHICLES:
"A Land Raider can Fall Back in the Movement phase and still shoot and/or charge during its turn. When a Land Raider Falls Back, it can move over enemy INFANTRY models, though at the end of its move it must be more than 1" away from all emenmy units. A Land Raider can fire its shooting weapons even if there are enemy models within 1" of it unless those enemy models are VEHICLES. In this case, it can shoot the enemy unit that is withinin 1" of it or any other visible enemy unit that is within range and more than 1" away from any friendly models. In addition, a Land Raider can move and fire Heavy weapons without any penalty to its hit rolls. Finally, a Land Raider only gains a bonus to its save in cover if at least half of the model is obscured from the bearer."

What do you think? Do these rules seem sensible for large vehicles? They address a lot of the criticisms with 8th Edition vehicle rules...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/22 19:48:08


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I think all medium to large vehicles should be able to back out of combat, not necessarily be able to shoot as well, but just to get rid of this scenario where a few blokes prevent a 50-ton tank from escaping just because it can't fit through the gap. Wouldn't be so bad however if they gave vehicles a decent CC chance, instead of 3 attacks hitting on 6+ with no Ap.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I would say all the rules look applicable, except perhaps being able to shoot units within 1", given that most large vehicle weapons are turret or sponson-mounted.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

So being able to keep units from shooting by tying them up in combat is a crucial part of 8th edition, and the only models with exceptions are Titanic ones that cost 400 or more points, generally.

Too many violations of the "close combat stops tanks from shooting" rules means close combat armies get even worse and this is bad.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So being able to keep units from shooting by tying them up in combat is a crucial part of 8th edition, and the only models with exceptions are Titanic ones that cost 400 or more points, generally.

Too many violations of the "close combat stops tanks from shooting" rules means close combat armies get even worse and this is bad.


Is that a key part of the game balance or more to do with building an appropriate army to deal with vehicles? How was it handled in previous editions?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 deathwinguk wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So being able to keep units from shooting by tying them up in combat is a crucial part of 8th edition, and the only models with exceptions are Titanic ones that cost 400 or more points, generally.

Too many violations of the "close combat stops tanks from shooting" rules means close combat armies get even worse and this is bad.


Is that a key part of the game balance or more to do with building an appropriate army to deal with vehicles? How was it handled in previous editions?


In previous editions, Vehicles could not be locked in combat, but they could also not overwatch, and were much much much much much much much much much much easier to kill/stop from shooting because of the Vehicle Damage Table (literally any result except Immobilized removed their ability to shoot).

Now? Vehicles can not be locked in combat easily (they can Fall Back) but also are stopped from shooting, but only for a turn. And you could just say "well, armies should be able to kill vehicles with guns" but at that point, armies like Chaos Daemons that don't have any guns just kinda get left out to die.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Thanks for recognizing Daemons, Unit.

Admittedly, Tzaeentch got guns. Got a lot of dakka. But I play Nurgle, and we... We don't.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 JNAProductions wrote:
Thanks for recognizing Daemons, Unit.

Admittedly, Tzaeentch got guns. Got a lot of dakka. But I play Nurgle, and we... We don't.


I only recognize them because I play Slaanesh. Our only guns are 6" range and Strength 4, because we hit people with really long whips. It's d6 shots, to be fair, but doesn't auto hit, so lol.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Thanks for recognizing Daemons, Unit.

Admittedly, Tzaeentch got guns. Got a lot of dakka. But I play Nurgle, and we... We don't.


I only recognize them because I play Slaanesh. Our only guns are 6" range and Strength 4, because we hit people with really long whips. It's d6 shots, to be fair, but doesn't auto hit, so lol.


You do? Neat.

But yeah, I am against adding this universally. Especially to flipping RHINOS. Those things aren't that big!

Land Raiders could MAYBE get it-they aren't hot stuff right now. But this should certainly not be a universal.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 JNAProductions wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Thanks for recognizing Daemons, Unit.

Admittedly, Tzaeentch got guns. Got a lot of dakka. But I play Nurgle, and we... We don't.


I only recognize them because I play Slaanesh. Our only guns are 6" range and Strength 4, because we hit people with really long whips. It's d6 shots, to be fair, but doesn't auto hit, so lol.


You do? Neat.

But yeah, I am against adding this universally. Especially to flipping RHINOS. Those things aren't that big!

Land Raiders could MAYBE get it-they aren't hot stuff right now. But this should certainly not be a universal.


I do, yes. The Courante Legion known as the "Chorus of Seduction" with the cavalcades "Arterial Artisans" and "Purveyors of Decadence" led by the Exalted Greater Daemon "Czumeth the Architect of Misery".

A bit OT to be sure...
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In previous editions, Vehicles could not be locked in combat, but they could also not overwatch, and were much much much much much much much much much much easier to kill/stop from shooting because of the Vehicle Damage Table (literally any result except Immobilized removed their ability to shoot).

Now? Vehicles can not be locked in combat easily (they can Fall Back) but also are stopped from shooting, but only for a turn. And you could just say "well, armies should be able to kill vehicles with guns" but at that point, armies like Chaos Daemons that don't have any guns just kinda get left out to die.


Thanks. It's good to understand why some of the less obvious (less realistic) rule decisions were made.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 20:08:47


 
   
 
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