Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm probably reading this wrong and wishful thinking, but is this stratagem for one Phantasm grenade launcher or for each grenade launcher firing in this phase?

Torment Grenade

Use this Stratagem before a model from your army fires a phantasm grenade launcher. If an enemy unit is hit by an attack made with this weapon this phase, then in addition to the usual effects, roll 3d6. If the result is higher than the highest Leadership characteristic in the enemy unit, it suffers D3 mortal wounds.

Its the fact you don't chose a model to fire, its just before you fire a phantasm grenade launcher, and it says this weapon - so not a particular one?

Confused!

I'm pretty sure its meant to be one as its only 1cp, but wanted to get the damn thing out of my head on paper to discuss

Cheers for any clarification and of note the wording is very different to say the hellfire rounds for space marine players stratgem

werecelt wrote:
I'm probably reading this wrong and wishful thinking, but is this stratagem for one Phantasm grenade launcher or for each grenade launcher firing in this phase?

Torment Grenade

Use this Stratagem before a model from your army fires a phantasm grenade launcher. If an enemy unit is hit by an attack made with this weapon this phase, then in addition to the usual effects, roll 3d6. If the result is higher than the highest Leadership characteristic in the enemy unit, it suffers D3 mortal wounds.

Its the fact you don't chose a model to fire, its just before you fire a phantasm grenade launcher, and it says this weapon - so not a particular one?

Confused!

I'm pretty sure its meant to be one as its only 1cp, but wanted to get the damn thing out of my head on paper to discuss

Cheers for any clarification and of note the wording is very different to say the hellfire rounds for space marine players stratgem

Yeah, "a" is ambiguous here and I can see how you could interpret it to apply to all Phantasm Grenades for the rest of the phase. Personally I would play it as affecting just a singular grenade launcher though.

Another one for the "GW wrote the rule poorly please fix it" FAQ pile.

Reading it a few times, I'm pretty sure that it's a single model, firing a single weapon hitting a single unit.
I don't know if Druhkari can fire twice by any method, which would confuse things..

Im not sure they can unless they do a yanari shenanigans - but yes ill write into gw on this one so they can clear it up - cheers and glad im not alone in thinking it could have been written better - in some ways i wish it was 2cps for all of them in that phase - probably still a little too powerful though!

"When hit by an attack, the in addition to its usual effects."

So a Phantasm Launcher has D3 shots. I assume this means potentially D3 Ld checks. You could combine this with Ynnari or "No Method of Death" if you wanted, and combined with the fact Phantasm Grenades drop Leadership...

A model and a phantasm grenade launcher means its one model shooting one phantasm grenade launcher. If you spam 10 units of wyches with 10 launchers (430 pts) you could inflict 10D3 mortal wounds. Average roll with 3D6 is 10.5. Sounds overkill for 1CP.

Based on the wording, though, I would argue that if, as werecelt mentions, that same model with that same PGL fires again the same phase using Power from Death, the stratagem would still apply to it.

One model only, firing that pgl. "This..." unambiguously ties the second sentence to the first.

Yeah, I think it's almost certainly intended to apply only to the one model. "This weapon" is "the particular weapon which you're attacking with and using the stratagem in response to", not "this type of weapon".

"Attack" is used in a couple different senses in the rules -- sometimes an "attack" is a single die roll, such that weapons can make multiple attacks (e.g. the shooting phase rules: "Each time a model shoots a ranged weapon, it will make a number of attacks"). But then in the Overwatch rules the phrase "a shooting attack" seems to mean every shot that a unit is making with all of its weapons. Then the Fight phase rules are back to using "attacks" to refer to each dice roll being made. I am unaware of an instance where "attack" without qualification clearly means the collection of attack rolls and not an individual roll. The only instances I can find where "attack" is used this way are qualified like in the Overwatch rules ("shooting attack").

I would say it's clear that it only applies to the particular weapon being fired. It is less clear whether it applies to each hit with the weapon or only applies once no matter how many hits are scored. I think it is almost certainly intended to only apply once (the rule is phrased as if checking whether at least one event occurred, whereas rules that are intended to work more than once usually use "each time" or similar). Typically producing 2d3 MWs is also crazy strong for 1 CP.

It's not ambiguous. Nothing says it affects all PGLs or last three whole game.

You opt to fire a PGL at an unit. You use the stratagem, if any of the PGL shots hit, then in addition to the normal PGL effects you roll 3d6 and if higher than targets LD you do d3 mortal wounds.

If it was per shot that hits it would have some language saying that.

Im in total agreement with it should be only one. I think because it states before a model fires with a PGL, its not targeting a specific model with a PGL and then the second sentence is
If an enemy unit is hit by an attack made with this weapon this phase,
could refer to the PGL as this weapon including any PGL's? at no point does it mention a specific model armed with a PGL

Ive submitted the question anyway so for clarity we shall see

"This weapon" refers to the pgl you were just about to fire. Contextis king here.

"If an enemy unit is hit by an attack made with this weapon this phase"

It's not "hit by at least one attack" (and GW has done "at least one" numerous times in the past to prevent stacking), but "hit by an attack." RAW, this would mean D3 potential Ld checks.