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Specifically Space Wolves, but any examples of what happens when Marines start to get close to the end of their natural lifespan would be very helpful!

If there's no real literature on it, I'd imagine something like a 'sent out on a suicide mission so you can die an honourable death' would be preferable to 'sent of to the fortress-monastery to scare the new recruits with your battle-scars'.

For reference, I'm making a little Vlka Fenryka warband for Inquisimunda centring around a Long Fang that's approaching the end of his natural lifespan and is showing the odd sign of senility (or, at least, those who oppose his agenda like to spread that rumour around whether there's truth in it or not).

I think it only applies to those that are wildly mutating in some way. Marines are a resource and being so long lived are rarely put out to pasture in most chapters. An example of an exception would be the Death Company of the Blood Angels who are sent on suicide missions as they are a danger.

Some will end up inside dreadnoughts though.

Also it's important to note that training the next generation of Space Marines is a huge responsibility and a tremendous honour and only the most skilled warriors and teachers will be chosen to do it. They have to be because each batch of marines has to be as good as possible. It's not glamorous and I'm sure they'd rather be out fighting. But its usually a big honour and a duty. At least that's what I've interpreted it as from most fluff that I've read.

There used to be mention of some Space Marines being relegated to recruitment or neophyte training duty following crippling injuries or the likes. So I guess, that a Space Marine getting close to the end of his natural lifespan could be relegated to non-combat duty, but where his experience could still be helpful. At worst, there is an entire logistic beneath a Chapter to make it work.

Ashes of Prospero has a bunch of Wolves who are stuck in the Fang because they aren't allowed fighting anymore because they aren't considered good enough due to injuries.

pm713 wrote:
Ashes of Prospero has a bunch of Wolves who are stuck in the Fang because they aren't allowed fighting anymore because they aren't considered good enough due to injuries.

I hadn't heard of that. That's rather interesting as it seems to be rather rare. I expect they're either being used as trainers? Or at the very least used as a more honoured tier of chapter serfs? I mean a lot of the serfs come from those who washed out of training and a lot of chapters see them as at least worthy of their protection and respect. So I wouldn't see it as that unbelievable that unfortunate marines may end up in this position.

It didn't go into much detail except mentioning one of them suffered his head injury recently and he missed battle. I assume they did things like train Blood Claws on Fenris for things like hunting dangerous predators threatening the natives.

But they did seem respected and they had enough autonomy to voluntarily go with Njal to Prospero or choose to stay on Fenris.

It should be noted that there is no “natural lifespan” for space marines. There is a statistical limit of eight centuries or so, unless one is truly exceptional, but no marine has ever, to our knowledge, died of old age.

Also, I’m not sure why you think they would be, but Space Wolves are not particularly exceptional in this regard, being neither longer nor shorter lived than other legions.
Remember that Logan Grimnar has been Great Wolf for 650 years, and that you don’t typically get to be Great Wolf before you hit your second century in the Chapter. Oh and, just for a laugh, remember that Logan was personally recruited and trained by Ulrik the Slayer, which makes Ulrik (even with his own legendarily rapid ascension) around 900 years old (could be older yet, no mention of when Ulrik found Logan). Neither of them seem to be slowing down or stopping any time soon…

It's one of those thing that's alluded to but never realy explained in the fluff, eg most marine warships are commanded by a spacemarine (as marines only refer to fellow marines as brother), and other such things like overseeing planetary defences of their homeworld are usually supervised by marines while manned by humans. All jobs that would keep a keen minded if a little slower marine in battle but not on the ground per say.
Alot of people assume marines stop at the fighting force, their is a number of marines who while still marines do fall outside the conventional order of battle, most of them have responsibility for numbers of serfs or other such subordinates to keep the chaptor functional.
But who realy wants to read about brother Zakiel and his 1000 serfs and their joyous task of logistics planning and accounting.

Dante of the blood angels is 1100 years old.

Marines don't die of old age - they're functionally immortal. But if their injuries are too severe to allow for frontline services, they will be given other jobs, whether it's training the new recruits or whatever. I remember in bill kings space wolves books, there I see a mention of a few ancient old grognards that look after the records and the chapters lore and relics. Plus prbsbly scare the young 'uns!

If you're getting to the end of your marine usefulness, likely you get put in a Venerable Dreadnought - if one's available.

While they might be immortal, they do age. Ultramarines consider a marine of 400 years "ancient" while Space Wolves and Blood Angels are kicking around at 800+ years just fine.

My hypothesis is that different geneseeds "age" at different rates. An ultramarine at 300 is going to have worse reflexes/survivability than a space wolf of 500, so are more likely to die at a younger age, thus pushing the average age of Ultramarines down.

Deadnight wrote:
Dante of the blood angels is 1100 years old.

I haven't seen Te Khaurangi given an actual age, but three generations removed from the Horus Heresy likely puts the Pale Nomad over that.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
While they might be immortal, they do age. Ultramarines consider a marine of 400 years "ancient" while Space Wolves and Blood Angels are kicking around at 800+ years just fine.

My hypothesis is that different geneseeds "age" at different rates. An ultramarine at 300 is going to have worse reflexes/survivability than a space wolf of 500, so are more likely to die at a younger age, thus pushing the average age of Ultramarines down.

That was my take on it too. I don't buy this 'functionally immortal' thing.

And besides, marines that are getting a bit 'past it' is just too damn cool of a narrative hook to leave be.

Lots of neat options here too thanks guys!

Someone has to drive all those tanks! If their vehicles have the same sort of neural uplinks that their armor (and dreads) have then you could easily put their years of combat experience to use. With high levels of automation "having arms" is less important that fast, accurate, decision making.

"Retired" marines probably just start doing all of the logistics and background work that helps and army actually get to the fight.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


That was my take on it too. I don't buy this 'functionally immortal' thing.

And besides, marines that are getting a bit 'past it' is just too damn cool of a narrative hook to leave be.

I mean...that is functionally immortal, though. The whole point is that they do age, albiet slowly, but we have no recorded instances of them dying outside of combat.

There are still traitors kicking around from the Heresy post-13th Black Crusade, after all. Those guys are over 10k years old. Yeah, there's some hand-wavey warp-shenanigans involved with the Eye of Terror, but still.

And then as far as loyalists we've got Dante and Bjorn as the oldest living marine and dreadnought-marine, respectively. Both of them show their age - practically every passage in The Devastation of Baal from Dante's POV involves some mention of his aged body and how worn-out and tired he feels. And Bjorn, being a dreadnought and particularly ancient, sleeps like a nonagenarian in a retirement home. In spite of that, though, neither of them show any sign of being ready to kick the bucket. Dante would love to just kick back and rest...but he still went out and took down a swarmlord in single combat. Barely, but...he managed it at over 1,000 years old.

As far as anything resembling 'retirement' for aged marines, there have already been a few examples in-thread, but I can think of a handful of others. The Ultramarines, if I recall correctly, tend to put their older and less-spry members in leadership roles within the chapter - logistics officers, ship commanders, trainers for the scouts and personal assistants for high-ranking chapter personnel, etc. They tend to be pulled back from frontline combat duty but they're still expected to serve the chapter in some other capacity to the best of their ability. And even though they're removed from the thick of the fighting, being Astartes there's always going to be some time or other where they're put at risk and wind up dying in combat, regardless.

Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Salamanders eventually 'retire' to become community leaders on their homeworld Noctourne? I seem to remember something about them going home to live among their baseline human communities and becoming politicians and the like...and even raising families?

Someone mentioned in another thread Marines live for 3000 years or something like that?

I'd imagine them something like Cohen the Barbarian, as being ancient and kicking ass really efficiently as a result. I think a Marine like that might be seconded to the Inquisition. Remember the Wolves also have the Wolf Scouts as veteran scouts too. It would be funny to have Wolf Scouts and, say, Ultramarine Scouts operating in the same theatre.

 Nurglitch wrote:
I'd imagine them something like Cohen the Barbarian, as being ancient and kicking ass really efficiently as a result. I think a Marine like that might be seconded to the Inquisition. Remember the Wolves also have the Wolf Scouts as veteran scouts too. It would be funny to have Wolf Scouts and, say, Ultramarine Scouts operating in the same theatre.

Wolf scouts have different mindsets too though. There in a pack based culture, lone wolf hunters and embrace the solitude and self reliance.

Its not saying they cannot work in teams, or as part of combined arms groups.,. far from it, there a powerful force multiplier.

There just alot more comfortable on solo missions, and without the strong pack culture than there brothers.

and yes, a veteran salty, Wolf scout/ well not exactly a newbie !

Oberdeii served with the Ultramarines during the Heresy, and was still around and able to be the first Chapter Master of the Scythes of the Emperor during the Third Founding ~1000 years later.

Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

 Formosa wrote:
Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

some are too injured or so and forced to retire from combat duties, but there are many roles in the honoured training, overseeing the serfs and PDF forces or more. they may also assist in projects or efforts on there home worlds and systems.

I dont think there is a retirement home yet for marines considering there are still some marines hanging out from 10k years ago.

If they get crippled enough they ether get chunked into a washing machine so they can keep serving or otherwise they get their skulls fleemed so they can become servo skulls and keep serving.

thats generally how it goes.

 Desubot wrote:
I dont think there is a retirement home yet for marines considering there are still some marines hanging out from 10k years ago.

If they get crippled enough they ether get chunked into a washing machine so they can keep serving or otherwise they get their skulls fleemed so they can become servo skulls and keep serving.

thats generally how it goes.

there was a hovering Iron hand who lost his legs in bio acid, no replacement, they made him hover and captained a ship instead.

Servo skulls and Dreadnoughts are honoured people. If you get crippled too badly and you aren't good enough for that you get turned into a gunner who doesn't leave his station or something similar.

Space marines are effectively immortal by life span. No marine ever lives that long though.

 Formosa wrote:
Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

Problem with that reasoning: Hrud entropic weapons do not, as far as I know at least, supply the victim with food, air, or other life sustaining necessities. Just entropy. They aren’t even “fast-forward” guns – they don’t force you to experience thousands of years in an instant – they’re more fundamental than that.
All that applying 3k years worth of entropy to marines really proves is that they aren’t made of stone or metal. Not that a term like “3000 years worth of entropy” really means anything outside of a sci-fi novella; entropy is only related to time in that isolated systems cannot decrease their entropy over time.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

Problem with that reasoning: Hrud entropic weapons do not, as far as I know at least, supply the victim with food, air, or other life sustaining necessities. Just entropy. They aren’t even “fast-forward” guns – they don’t force you to experience thousands of years in an instant – they’re more fundamental than that.
All that applying 3k years worth of entropy to marines really proves is that they aren’t made of stone or metal. Not that a term like “3000 years worth of entropy” really means anything outside of a sci-fi novella; entropy is only related to time in that isolated systems cannot decrease their entropy over time.

Also over a natural span a marine would be supported by medical marine and other specialists like tech marines.

They did instant aging with no support.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

Problem with that reasoning: Hrud entropic weapons do not, as far as I know at least, supply the victim with food, air, or other life sustaining necessities. Just entropy. They aren’t even “fast-forward” guns – they don’t force you to experience thousands of years in an instant – they’re more fundamental than that.
All that applying 3k years worth of entropy to marines really proves is that they aren’t made of stone or metal. Not that a term like “3000 years worth of entropy” really means anything outside of a sci-fi novella; entropy is only related to time in that isolated systems cannot decrease their entropy over time.

It’s doenst matter, it shows that marines are not biologically immortal, between this and phosis tkars obersevations, that myth is now put to bed, marines are not “functionally immortal” “biologically immortal” etc. They are extremely long lived by human standards, that’s all.

 Formosa wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Primarchs Peturabo novel adds new information in regards to space marines life span, Warsmith Dantioch estimates the H'Rud Entropic field ages his marines around 3k years to decrepitude and this shows him the "lie" of marines being functionally immortal.

So assuming this is true then no marine we know of has survived long enough to reach "retirement age" naturally, all die through some manner or other long before their bodies begin to age in any meaningful way.

Problem with that reasoning: Hrud entropic weapons do not, as far as I know at least, supply the victim with food, air, or other life sustaining necessities. Just entropy. They aren’t even “fast-forward” guns – they don’t force you to experience thousands of years in an instant – they’re more fundamental than that.
All that applying 3k years worth of entropy to marines really proves is that they aren’t made of stone or metal. Not that a term like “3000 years worth of entropy” really means anything outside of a sci-fi novella; entropy is only related to time in that isolated systems cannot decrease their entropy over time.

It’s doenst matter, it shows that marines are not biologically immortal, between this and phosis tkars obersevations, that myth is now put to bed, marines are not “functionally immortal” “biologically immortal” etc. They are extremely long lived by human standards, that’s all.

I think it's same for the Primarchs. As we see Horus visibly age at one point. Though in the case of the marines being exposed to 3k years of entropy being aged to decrepitude doesn't mean they will die of old age, it just means they eventually get old, or that entropy factors can affect their vigor. Also there may be a difference between immortal and functionally immortal. It could be argued that one means they'll never die of old age and the other means that they age so slowly and live so long that most other beings would just consider them immortal. But that seems like a different debate to be honest.

Custodes get sent off into space as Scouts for the other Custodes. There is a ridiculously low delay their reflexes have to be at for them to be considered too slow to save the Emperor.

As such they retire to planets and other systems as lone wolf agents of the Imperium. If a Xenos invasion comes they might help lead the charge or call upon the Custodes for aid if it’s too tough.