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With the advent of Primaris marines, where does that leave "regular" Space Marines? Do we have valid reason to believe that GW will discontinue those box sets?

They're fine.

I don't know what the future holds, but it would be wierd for GW to kill off the units that may have kept them afloat through the rough years.

I don't think they will considering they are still needed for HH which is a fairly large market. You won't see them squated from lore that's for sure, nor will you see the kit disappear but you won't be seeing a new kit for them for some times. Perhaps HH kit.

What about Codex Creep? Can we expect Primaris Marines to gradually out perform old school marines on the table top?

phydaux wrote:
What about Codex Creep? Can we expect Primaris Marines to gradually out perform old school marines on the table top?

Well seeing as they don't currently I don't think you will. Tac squads over all are more versitile, primaris are really only good if you build around them.

It's like having a multi tool and a fillet knife. The knife is gonna be good at one thing but gal at anything else. The multi tool is a jack of all trades master of none

 Backspacehacker wrote:

phydaux wrote:
What about Codex Creep? Can we expect Primaris Marines to gradually out perform old school marines on the table top?

Well seeing as they don't currently I don't think you will. Tac squads over all are more versitile, primaris are really only good if you build around them.

It's like having a multi tool and a fillet knife. The knife is gonna be good at one thing but gal at anything else. The multi tool is a jack of all trades master of none

Having more upgrades doesn't make them versatile because they really can't be equipped to handle even a single task.

I think they are safe for now and the near future, but I recall that Hastings (who is a reliable rumor-monger) stated the regular marines would not be receiving any newer kits and would be eventually phased out, which makes sense since it’ll force marine-players to eventually buy all super-duper marines that are more in line with the fluff. We can then expect to see Primaris made to be a reliable force.

they've given themselves a hook to upgrade regular marines to near-primaris. I think eventually they'll just produce the current SM kits in primaris scale - possibly with the +1 wounds buff. Then older players will be told that their marines are count-as for the new primaris tactical and devastator squads.

It's the least disruptive path forward.

The dumpster.

Their status is - you should play another army.

Well I hope not. The Primaris Marines are all post-Heresy so lack a lot of the interesting history and armour relics. Space Marines are what got me into WH40K RT back in the 90s...

No, they're truly terrible. Especially primaris.

It would also mean retiring the iconic Rhino and Land Raider

Rhinos are okay, but the stuff inside is useless crap. Land raiders are just straight up terrible. As per usual.

Martel732 wrote:
Rhinos are okay, but the stuff inside is useless crap. Land raiders are just straight up terrible. As per usual.

They are to expensive since most of the cost is you are using it to transport. At which point anything you out in there it basiclly becomes a loot pinata.

I play Imperial Fist successor and never do amazing with them.

Tacs have been considered garbage since at least the start of 6E, according to most forums. Even when they were winning tournaments.

Tacs aren't great right now, but you can't really tell how well they're doing by looking at the forums. People will always complain about how they're trash, regardless of how good/bad they are.

Tacs were garbage in 5th, too. Get it right. And 2nd.

I can't speak to that. I can only speak to their status in 6E and later.

There were several points in there where tacs were certainly not garbage, and the complaints about them were just as prevalent as today.

Agree to disagree. Of course, most people were playing grenades incorrectly and not facing tourney lists.

I doubt the Tacs that won tournies did not face tourney lists.

When 7th dropped, for instance, Tacs did an amazing Obsec spam, and that swept a number of tournies. I looked up one of the early 7th tournies, and 5 of the top 10 were Marines, 3 of those 5 were Tac spam.

It's stories like that that make it hard to discuss the true state of things. We had Tacs placing as 3 of the top 10, SM taking 5 of the top 10, and yet the forums were still abuzz about how weak Marines were.

And that wasn't even the high point of Marines in that edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(those 3 weren't 'Lists with Tac Marines in them'. They were lists with 6 Tac squads.)

But they were still cheating with grenades I bet.

Assuming by 'cheating', you mean using grenades in CC the way most people believed the rules to read as? Maybe. I wouldn't call it cheating, if it was the agreed-upon reading. Further, that wasn't what people feared about that list.

I will concede that they were likely better off without the current AP system. And when they still had some AP on their weapons.

Gladius was a really horrible crutch, though. One that the BA never got, so I am in a better position to attest to their true capabilities.

Bharring wrote:
Tacs have been considered garbage since at least the start of 6E, according to most forums. Even when they were winning tournaments.

Tacs aren't great right now, but you can't really tell how well they're doing by looking at the forums. People will always complain about how they're trash, regardless of how good/bad they are.

They were in tournaments in 7th, and let's not pretend that the Tactical Marines were winning the games rather than the 300-500 free points you were given.

It was the epitome of terrible codex writing.

White scar tacs in free scouting rhinos firing their grav cannon. None of that involved the actual rules for tacs except their ballistic skill. This, by the way, is what Drukhari basically are now. Except raiders cost points. Not enough points, but some points.

The "free points" was late 7th. To quote my earlier post "... one of the early 7th tournies ...". So there was no Gladius. That was a scarier build later in the edition.

It was terrible codex writing. But SM were doing well in 7th before it came out (at least until Necrons and later came out).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel,
The 3 Tac spams were UM. The 2 other SM lists were WS bikers.

Those particular Tac Spam lists did not have free Rhinos or scouting Rhinos.

That style list was more frequently Pods than Rhinos. So they weren't firing while in a vehicle, clearly.

Bharring wrote:
The "free points" was late 7th. To quote my earlier post "... one of the early 7th tournies ...". So there was no Gladius. That was a scarier build later in the edition.

It was terrible codex writing. But SM were doing well in 7th before it came out (at least until Necrons and later came out).

They were doing Centurionstar. That's it. It also was not late 7th. It was mid 7th.

And honestly there was only one list built like you're talking about. The one worth Calgar and pods?
Yeah that doesn't count for the same reason the topping Thousand Sons list in 6th doesn't count. It's an anomaly that won't happen for a very long time, so stop defending the Rubric Marine.

I'm in the camp that don't expect GW to release any more new kits in the old scale. All new 40k Marines kits will be Primaris in my opinion.

I believe the old kits will still be in rotation for a long time, likely years. If and when they do stop selling them, people will be fine with using the old models as proxy for the newer lines.

Number of Centurions in all 5 lists combined: 0.

This was 2014. That was not mid 7th.

So Tacs were an anomaly in 2014, which would never happen again? So the trash that was free transports never took them to the top? And never with Big-G in 8th?

Marines have been good, if not great, for most of the past 3 editions.