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So I've played an ultramarine match.. heh..and got obliterated I'd like to know your advice on the list and also a couple of hints of what should I've done in a couple of situations.
HQ Chronus on Predator, twin lascannons and 2 lascannons
Techmarine
Elite Contemptor Dreadnought, combat weapon and Kheres assault cannon
Venerable Dreadnought, combat weapon and twin lascannon
Troops 3x Scout (4+1 Sergeant), boltguns
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I went against a Vostroyan army with 2 tank commanders (one on leman russ with battlecannon, the other with the Gatling gun), 2 devil dog hellhounds with full melta cannons, 3 units of troops. We were playing a mission where you draw up to 6 objectives, starting from 1 + 1 per each controlled objective.
Deployment:
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Questions:
1) There where 2 objectives in the neutral zone, but definitely close to the enemy lines, I've deployed my scouts there. Is there any particular reason why not to? The deployment I think played out nicely since it drew me many objectives. Given the image above, I started deploying, what would you have done differently?
2) When I fired the predator I rolled a 1 and decided to command point it, 4 hits, then on the wound I wounded only 1 time, which rolled a 1 for the wounds. Should I have kept it to re-roll the wound roll or for the damages? How do you decide?
3) I charged with a unit of scouts onto a unit of his infantry, the combat went miserably, is there anything one can do to improve it? Maybe knife and pistol? How do you equip the scouts? Since they can deploy so close? (Also, I should have used the stratagem to fight again, but didn't remember it, there were 4 infantry left in his squad and killing in melee was an objective)
4) how would you change the list? I really like the dreadnought vibe, also, they delivered something, I liked the scouts also but the HQ was completely useless and got obliterated right away.
I too love my Dreadnoughts. I just got wiped out by a guard on Tuesday.
The list: your list is too elite at this point level. Your opponent brought a lot of fire power and he only had 3 targets to shoot at with his tanks.
Try to deploy to limit the options for shooting. Your table is lacking some serious terrain as well which made it very easy for your opponent to pick you off at long range. I personally like the NOVA terrain rules. 2x ruins, 2x forest, 2x hills, and 2x large LOS blocking terrain.
Scouts: they are our friend. They deny area from deep strikers, they can grab objectives before turn 1, they are good at shooting. With the combat knives they are even good at combat against guardsmen. They also provide screens for your characters and can get in the way to prevent your vehicle from being charged. Try put different variations and see what best fits your playing style.
Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered how you played your list. There was no cover to hide behind, he had free range on all of your units.
Dwro1234 wrote: I too love my Dreadnoughts. I just got wiped out by a guard on Tuesday.
The list: your list is too elite at this point level. Your opponent brought a lot of fire power and he only had 3 targets to shoot at with his tanks.
Try to deploy to limit the options for shooting. Your table is lacking some serious terrain as well which made it very easy for your opponent to pick you off at long range. I personally like the NOVA terrain rules. 2x ruins, 2x forest, 2x hills, and 2x large LOS blocking terrain.
Scouts: they are our friend. They deny area from deep strikers, they can grab objectives before turn 1, they are good at shooting. With the combat knives they are even good at combat against guardsmen. They also provide screens for your characters and can get in the way to prevent your vehicle from being charged. Try put different variations and see what best fits your playing style.
Honestly, it wouldn't have mattered how you played your list. There was no cover to hide behind, he had free range on all of your units.
Oh for ff..first born sake, they are peasants! There must be a way,
-Crunching the numbers, in case of lascannons the reroll should be kept for the damage roll, with a reroll on the damage roll the average number of wounds coming out of 6 lascannons at 2+ against a leman russ is 12.27 (9.722 without the re-roll). So this should have removed a Leman Russ
-The target to be removed should have been the one with the battle cannon, because then the other leman russ even at full strength (stratagem + order) would place at most 4 damages a turn on the dreadnoughts
-Positioning the two dreadnought close to each other would have give me better use of the dreadnought re-roll 1 to hit stratagem
-I'll try the knives!
-In many videos I see of ultramarines there is the concept of castle, with a lieutenant or captain surrounded by ranged units, so I will remove the Chrnous dude (whose lascannons are like torchlights anyways) and the tech marine to try and do something like that
The lists your looking at are built around a level of buff charictors and units that just wouldn't fit into the point's level of that game.
Most of the IG codex is just better per point than the marine codex.
With the right list and building to a plan marines can leverage wins but they aren't going to be doing it without building a list for that game plan.
The Guilliman gunline (blob, castle etc) is leveraging high rate of fire mid strength fire power and the bobby G reroll everything aura to push up its damage output a lot. But Bobby G just became a 400 point LOW so is going to hamstring a list below 1.5k. You either need more shooting and a way to limit the amount of incoming damage, Raven Guard's -1 to hit is a much better tacticnunless you are using the special charictors.
At 800 points, I would probably run something like this list. I kept the dread just because it seems like you like them, but honestly for what they do I think a Razorback with twin assault cannons is almost always better, and cheaper. Use the dread for reroll 1's strat, and keep all the other tanks close to him and the Lieutenant. Also, scouts with Heavy Bolters are great units for the MW strat to finish off a vehicle that is down to the last few wounds or to push it from one damage tier to another. I'm not sure what models you have, but like I said, this is what I would run.
extenz wrote: At 800 points, I would probably run something like this list. I kept the dread just because it seems like you like them, but honestly for what they do I think a Razorback with twin assault cannons is almost always better, and cheaper. Use the dread for reroll 1's strat, and keep all the other tanks close to him and the Lieutenant. Also, scouts with Heavy Bolters are great units for the MW strat to finish off a vehicle that is down to the last few wounds or to push it from one damage tier to another. I'm not sure what models you have, but like I said, this is what I would run.
Thanks for the suggestion! Equipping the scouts with heavy bolters is interesting, I will try for sure! I don't have the hunters though, maybe some devastators, we'll see
The very first thing I noticed is that your table has almost no terrain on it. That's nearly insta-win for an IG army. If I were playing my Ultras, I would have refused to play on that table.
A good rule of thumb is 2 pieces of LOS blocking terrain per table quarter on a 6'x4' table. You'll notice 40k is a VERY DIFFERENT GAME when played with the proper amount of terrain.
The second thing I noticed is that what little terrain there is, you took no advantage of. Every one of your models is right out in the open, begging his heavy weapons to shoot you in the teeth.
Next, Dwro1234 made a great point -- Your list has too many bright shiny toys and not enough meat & potatoes. For an 800 point game you could run 4 Tac squads broken into 8 Combat Squads and a cheap HQ.
You also gained virtually nothing from your chapter tactics... I mean +1 to hit on 4 lascannons is okay but at this level? against guard? just run raven guard tactics, -1 to hit on hit gunline may have saved you some grief....
this thread got me thinking though; what does my own list look like at 800pts? mostly I decided I'd need a core of plenty of boots on the ground; a missile dev team; and probably a few asscan razors.... more later...
phydaux wrote:The very first thing I noticed is that your table has almost no terrain on it. That's nearly insta-win for an IG army. If I were playing my Ultras, I would have refused to play on that table.
A good rule of thumb is 2 pieces of LOS blocking terrain per table quarter on a 6'x4' table. You'll notice 40k is a VERY DIFFERENT GAME when played with the proper amount of terrain.
The second thing I noticed is that what little terrain there is, you took no advantage of. Every one of your models is right out in the open, begging his heavy weapons to shoot you in the teeth.
Next, Dwro1234 made a great point -- Your list has too many bright shiny toys and not enough meat & potatoes. For an 800 point game you could run 4 Tac squads broken into 8 Combat Squads and a cheap HQ.
Thanks, is there any reference to "official" guidelines for buildings, I can see the impact of that.. Also the composition is really not good, I'm slowly grasping it, even more so with few LOS covers. Probably one "shiny toy" is enough and should be positioned behind a LOS blocking thing so it just doesn't die on turn 1.
GamerGuy wrote:You also gained virtually nothing from your chapter tactics... I mean +1 to hit on 4 lascannons is okay but at this level? against guard? just run raven guard tactics, -1 to hit on hit gunline may have saved you some grief....
this thread got me thinking though; what does my own list look like at 800pts? mostly I decided I'd need a core of plenty of boots on the ground; a missile dev team; and probably a few asscan razors.... more later...
GamerGuy
Raven guard is definitely a good one! Of course I'd also like to see your list, since I'm quite bad at it, I may just copy and paste
I'd like to know your advice on the list and also a couple of hints of what should I've done in a couple of situations.
500, 
800 - 
