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With the announcement of X-Wing version 2 and some peoples less than enthusiastic responses to it and the thought that one can still play the first edition (just not in sanctioned events), well talking to an acquaintance that is planning on quitting the game entirely it got me thinking. Their position is that as the first version is no longer officially supported and evolving that they don't want any part of it whilst I have no problem playing games that are no longer supported by the manufacturer. For reference I still play WHFB 6th, Mordheim, Oldcremunda and have recently gotten back into B5 ACTA and still find them fun. In some ways the lack of support is liberating as if something doesn't work/needs balancing then we can house rule it without worry about official sanction.

So out of curiosity I thought I would ask how other people feel about this? If you answer no can you please explain why? My guess would be that finding people to play against would be the greatest hurdle to most but am curious.

No, just an army.

Seeing my preferred way of playing is with heavily house ruled version anyway whether it's officially supported version or not doesn't really concern me.

I recently played Mordheim, and last year I even ran participation games of Adeptus Titanicus at a couple of wargames shows! The audience was roughly split between the dads who remembered it the first time round and the kids who just liked the bright yellow giant robots.

I don't need a game company to hold my hand at all times.

Yes but its much harder to get other people to play.

Oh yes. Epic, BFG, WHFB 4th/5th (rarely 3rd and 6th), 40k 1st/2nd. Aeronautica Imperialis. I'd play Man O'War if I had opponents

Epic: Armageddon is a fantastic game.

Personally I go a bit further and pretty much play unsupported games exclusively. That is because without "new hotness" to chase after peoples attitude toward a game changes - first of all, it filters out a lot of people and those who stay are those who thoroughly enjoy a given system so if you play with strangers then instead of evening of complaining you usually get an evening of excitement. My local Battletech community is a prime example of that. This partially stems from social skills of people who actively stayed behind - to get games of old systems regularily you pretty much have to have likeable personality (but beware of those who only long for a game of some old, forgotten edition and constatly complain about the current, this longing is often TFG in nature...)

Secondly, those who stay are usually less inclined towards "official rules at all cost" so within closed groups extensive houseruling leading to 'custom edition' is pretty common - it can even happen in a larger, well organised community - Oldcromunda with Yaktribe being the prime example. And finally, without 'new hotness', the way people enjoy the game and talk about the game changes - the focus is on joy of it: either on narrative layer of what happened during the game, often leading to interesting scenario ideas to try next, or on what next to houserule/tweak to make the game even more enjoyable next time.

I still have Star Warriors, WEG’s version of X-Wing back from the 90’s.

Sure. I play a good bit of Mordheim (built a whole table around it last year), design cheat-sheets for it, tokens and cards, etc.

Also the gaming group which I joined many years back has a simple "host the game" approach. This means if you want to run a game, you run the game...you provide the rules, the models, the table, etc. This allows the group to play loads of different games, even if everyone isn't interested in the silly arms-race nature of games like 40K. If someone else in the group is equally interested in the game - bonus.

So if I run Shoot N' Skedaddle...no one in the group has to do a single thing. I'll show up with my entire game for them to play. Because of this we do a lot of games from the 80's and 90's if someone in the group has everything necessary to play. I've never given two gaks about tournaments or finding the coolest, newest thing. The only time I'll drop a game I like is if it is cut off mid-stream and the game items are incomplete. I'll ditch my planned Robotech project because Kevin Siembeda is a lying asshat who can't run a business. I wasn't going to play his game anyway, but I was going to use the models I had been promised from the Kickstarter. Now that we'll never see 60% of the units from the series...there's no point.

To me, this is one of the beauties of most wargaming rule sets which are not based around a supporting miniature line. This applies mostly to historical miniatures though. If you have a rule set for WW2 combat - you'll never ever have to abandon the game as long as someone, somewhere is making miniatures for it. It's why I heavily encourage people to consider things like gladiators, cowboys, etc. You can buy some miniatures and then you have access to dozens of sets of rules with which to use them. The flash-in-the-pan Kickstarter games which promise they're going to be the next 40K almost never come to fruition.

I think most people would agree that "most" new games become abandoned within 2-3 years. This means if you bought in planning on the long-haul and future developments you'll be disappointed. Look at the dozens and dozens of miniature games which have done this. A good $2 million Kickstarter and then completely abandoned within 2-3 years. Shame really. Hopefully you can find another use for your miniatures.

But a rules set based around non-specific miniatures? It'll never go bad.

Yes, but it's harder to find opponents - particularly for miniatures games designed with the expectation that both players will collect and bring their own army.

I still play Oldcromunda and Battlefleet Gothic occasionally (or a mishmash of BFG rules with Firestorm Armada ships).

I never got around the updating my Warmachine from MkII and don't expect I will - zero interest in the tournament scene and my Cygnar and Khador collections are reasonably balanced against each other when I'm providing both armies.

For RPGs and board games, I play older editions more often than current ones.

Yes, but only rpg (however, I might come back to warhammer battle this year).

I publish new fan content for an oop game from the 80s on my blog but don't actually play... I count that as a yes technically though!

All the time. If I have the stuff (or can make the stuff) I will gladly play it. Once I buy what I need to play a game, no one can make me stop playing it.

That's why I like miniature and RPG games so much better than electronic games.

Not really, but because of circumstance rather than principal.

The current edition is usually better in terms of rules, finding opponents and for games that actually have online support (e.g Infinity Army). At least for the games I play. Most new editions set out to improve the game.

I am lucky (or rather restrained with purchases) enough not to have mini's for an unsupported game, would probably still play games I could find if I did though.

I have 6 and 15mm ancients (historical before gunpowder) figures though, "support" isn't really a thing like it is with games with copyrighted fluff. Really just comes down to if the rulebook is in print and/or if another edition is probable.
I usually just play what I can find opponent's for, with ancients.

Over the last couple of years most of the games I play have either been dropped or had dramatic edition changes that I didn't like, so most of the games I play are no longer supported. Such as,
Warhammer 8th edition, 40k 7th, star trek attack wing, epic Armageddon, battlefleet gothic, Babylon 5 a call to arms, halo fleet battles, dystopian wars. And now x-wing.

Their games I love, I have everything I need to play and gaming friends willing to play them, so why would I stop?

 Easy E wrote:
All the time. If I have the stuff (or can make the stuff) I will gladly play it. Once I buy what I need to play a game, no one can make me stop playing it.

That's why I like miniature and RPG games so much better than electronic games.

Nobody can stop you, no. Unfortunately finding people to help you isn't all that easy either.

I too tend to prefer the general DIY attitude that surrounds "dead" games, but sadly all too often its an attitude I can only experience through online communities rather than in-person; even old reliable fixtures like Mordheim have become a problem to find or set up groups for these days(because there's always that one guy who insists on using his AoS/other special-snowflake homebrew warband and kicks off when you tell them no, meaning you lose anyone who's their friend specifically and also anyone who sees any kind of disagreement as "drama", usually leaving a non-viable group size). I tried to get a BFG campaign going a few months ago with some old gaming buddies, but they're fully into "official" mode these days and won't go near the system until the rumoured Battlefleet Heresy revamp comes out.

The fact is the majority of gamers prefer to put as little effort into the rules side of the hobby as possible, which is completely understandable for everyday pickup gaming or casual club nights, but sadly becomes the kind of default attitude regardless of circumstances so even when there's an opportunity to do things differently they don't even want to try. Which is their prerogative of course, but it's depressing, like someone refusing the chance to try some new tasty food because they've become so used to eating frozen fish fingers and won't step outside their comfort zone.

I have no problem with playing old/unsupported games, but I don’t tend to play old VERSIONS of games.

I play as part of a big game club that doesn’t always have the same people down every night and usually has lots of campaigns for different systems running at the same time. So, it’s in everyone’s interest to be playing the most supported/up to date version.

So, we’ve had various Necromunda campaigns over the last few years, which are really popular, and we used the NCE as the most up-to-date and easy to find set of rules online. But, when Necromunda 2017 was released, we started a new campaign and now we play that. Similar for Blood Bowl.

Similarly, I haven’t played 40k 7ed since 8ed dropped.

On the other hand, Battlefleet Gothic and Epic are still regularly played.

It can be hard to find new players and new models to keep things fresh, but can still be pretty fun. For example Mage Knight Dungeons is great as a quick dungeon crawler for a group of 2-8 people, DM Free.

RPG's and Historical's, not being based around specific miniatures are exceptions of course.

yeah Confrontation, Warzone (not the new one yet) Chronopia, warhammer, numerous RPGs. support is nice, not necessary. It can be a pain to find players, but with some quick internet searches I have found groups for all of them.

My gaming group consists of me and my wife, so we play whatever we want.

I like to where I can. It usually works best with some of my non-tabletop gamer friends. They don't have any expectation of using the most current or even available rules anyways. I provide everything (miniatures, dice, rules summaries, even army lists most of the time) so I just need an easily accessible rule set which is easy to teach and fairly intuitive.

I have no issue using older/unsupported/modified rules which I feel should be a big advantage to playing tabletop games over video games. One of the big issues I have with older games is many are very clunky or over wrought compared to modern games. Since I don't expect to be playing more than half a dozen games in a row, I need the rules to be fairly easy to learn/remember. However, older games usually like to have exceptions upon exceptions, similar (or the same) mechanics with different fluff names and a whole bunch of pit falls for players that only play it a few times every now again. These games are great if a player has the time to delve deep into them, but don't work very well if you want to get in a quick game and only play it for a few weekends then play something else and come back to it in a few months.

The next big issue is the fact that miniatures wargaming in America is very much tied to the hobby store. Too much so for my liking. I come from TT rpgs, and while I have playing games in game stores, that was far the exception to where I usually played. When it comes to miniatures games, my time has been pretty evenly split between at my or someone else home and a gaming store. Most of the time I feel pretty awkward about playing a game at a store where the miniatures aren't available anymore (especially if game was never stock at the store in the first place). I feel pretty fortunate that I have a couple of stores in the area which don't really seem to care as they have plenty of table space that usually goes unused anyways. I try to spend some money at these places even if I currently playing a game they don't have any (or never had) stock for.

Ultimately, I would rather rent a table for a few hours so I could play whatever I want or have gaming clubs be a thing in my area. I would much rather be part of a gaming club where you could show up with a game (or just show looking to play a game) and try out some of the less popular or unsupported stuff.

I also have a few games that I don't have the current edition for and have no plans to update. I went from Dust Warfare to Dust Tactics: Battlefield but did not update to Dust 1947. I only have the rules for 1st Edition Bolt Action as well Dreadball and Deadzone. I'll use the 2nd edition Dreadball rules if I can get a free pdf otherwise I will stick to what I have. As for Deadzone, I hated the 2nd edition rules and actually created my own using the Savage Worlds rpg engine while keeping the components useful (tokens and cards). I like it far more than either edition, and it is the only version I can get some of my friends to play.

BFG mostly. Lots of great fan content though. I have a nice binder of printed out FAQ and fan changes for when I game.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I like to where I can. It usually works best with some of my non-tabletop gamer friends. They don't have any expectation of using the most current or even available rules anyways. I provide everything (miniatures, dice, rules summaries, even army lists most of the time) so I just need an easily accessible rule set which is easy to teach and fairly intuitive.

I have no issue using older/unsupported/modified rules which I feel should be a big advantage to playing tabletop games over video games. One of the big issues I have with older games is many are very clunky or over wrought compared to modern games. Since I don't expect to be playing more than half a dozen games in a row, I need the rules to be fairly easy to learn/remember. However, older games usually like to have exceptions upon exceptions, similar (or the same) mechanics with different fluff names and a whole bunch of pit falls for players that only play it a few times every now again. These games are great if a player has the time to delve deep into them, but don't work very well if you want to get in a quick game and only play it for a few weekends then play something else and come back to it in a few months.

The next big issue is the fact that miniatures wargaming in America is very much tied to the hobby store. Too much so for my liking. I come from TT rpgs, and while I have playing games in game stores, that was far the exception to where I usually played. When it comes to miniatures games, my time has been pretty evenly split between at my or someone else home and a gaming store. Most of the time I feel pretty awkward about playing a game at a store where the miniatures aren't available anymore (especially if game was never stock at the store in the first place). I feel pretty fortunate that I have a couple of stores in the area which don't really seem to care as they have plenty of table space that usually goes unused anyways. I try to spend some money at these places even if I currently playing a game they don't have any (or never had) stock for.

Ultimately, I would rather rent a table for a few hours so I could play whatever I want or have gaming clubs be a thing in my area. I would much rather be part of a gaming club where you could show up with a game (or just show looking to play a game) and try out some of the less popular or unsupported stuff.

I also have a few games that I don't have the current edition for and have no plans to update. I went from Dust Warfare to Dust Tactics: Battlefield but did not update to Dust 1947. I only have the rules for 1st Edition Bolt Action as well Dreadball and Deadzone. I'll use the 2nd edition Dreadball rules if I can get a free pdf otherwise I will stick to what I have. As for Deadzone, I hated the 2nd edition rules and actually created my own using the Savage Worlds rpg engine while keeping the components useful (tokens and cards). I like it far more than either edition, and it is the only version I can get some of my friends to play.

Our store has a table fee to use them. they let you play whatever you want, so that makes things a lot less awkward, they will also order stuff from OOP sites.

I still play Dreadfleet

I also played Space Hulk and Necromunda while they weren't supported, and am happy that they are back.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I have no problem with playing old/unsupported games, but I don’t tend to play old VERSIONS of games.

I think that's how things are for most people.

I suppose there is a difference between games being 'officially' supported, or supported by a fan community. So for the latter even before the re-launch (and many years after the last miniature was released for it) there were BB tournaments in Europe with hundreds of attendees and that would sell out well in advance. Similarly I think that other games like Necromunda, Mordheim, Epic, BFG still have a lot of groups scattered around playing them.

What can cause problems is in the case of something like WHFB being replaced by AoS, which is a very, very different game. But I think it put a lot of players and groups in a quandry, and so you ended up with a lot of groups splitting: some moving to AoS, others wanting the same kind of game experience of WHFB and moving to KoW or 9th age, and others quitting or changing altogether. In retrospect, and seeing the affect it had on groups, I think that was a pretty nasty thing to do by GW and it's a shame they didn't have the confidence in their new product to avoid killing WHFB and by extension the social groups that had built up around it.

With something like Necromunda the game is more suited to local player groups and RPG-lite/narrative campaigns, rather than tournaments, and what that means is players have the option of using the new rules or the old, or even using a combination of both sets. And in some cases these very focused player groups (such as Yaktribe) are actively producing FAQs for the new Necromunda game as new books are released, and there are obvious mistakes or contradictions in the way some of those rules are written.

I'd still play them, but as others have said, finding new opponents can be tricky.

For instance, Epic. I effing love Epic (except Epic 40,000). My Orks are somewhere. But nobody else has an army. So whilst I'd happily still play either Space Marine or Epic Armageddon (former ideally), aint nobody to play with round my way.

Though I am picking up some old Epic stuff a guy I know doesn't want. Including a Squat army.....nyuk nyuk nyuk!

I find the solution to this is pretty simple, but expensive and time consuming. You need enough forces of your own for others to play. If they do not need to do anything but "play" the game they are generally willing to give it a shot.

I play unsupported games - games which have died out due to the lack of support from the company that spawned them. What I don't play are previous versions of a game. I really don't want to be part of the problem that leads to playerbase splintering.