CMON N&R - Degenesis Clan Wars GF Q2 2024, DC Heroes United GF July 2024

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**pancakeonions**

frankelee wrote:
This is a bit of a sales experiment for them. It's really just a Kickstarter campaign but they skip all the campaigning (and the Kickstarter, I suppose) and just show you the whole deal day one. With an expansion pack automatically added on there for you (they say free, but it's about the price you'd normally pay for the core box and one expansion in their normal campaigns).

Kind of frees people up emotionally to just buy it or don't, they don't get a campaign total to follow or worry about. No idea how popular it is.

I like Paul Bonner's artwork a lot, but I guess that doesn't translate into buying Paul Bonner Heroquest for me, I just think he's good. And I'm waiting on Dust.

It is an interesting experiment. The price ($160) seems high, and is likely to put a lot of folks off, but it comes with *a lot* of content. It's just that they've avoided the psychology of "gee, look at all this free stuff they're adding" as the funding increases. And apparently they're reading the comments - they added French as a language, which wasn't available at the start of the pre-order.

**Gallahad**

It keeps on tempting me. I don't know why but I keep on feeling that these miniatures will be closer in quality to HATE than some of their other projects.

**His Master's Voice**

Aeneades wrote:
They have released the graphic novel with exclusive miniatures.

Found them.

Hard to tell for sure with exclusively hero models, but I'm not seeing much of the original Dust DNA there.

**Taarnak**

I absolutely love Bonner's artwork. A good bit of it doesn't transfer directly to miniatures very well, however. In my opinion, anyway.

Not sure if I'll get this or not.

**ced1106**

MM has another sale. The Sort is all fubar'ed up, so here are the links to each page. alphabetical. I'd like to think it's not hard to add and multiply 32.

**Gallahad**

Man, I just can't be bothered with a web store that can't sort or properly display what they are selling. What a pain.

**frankelee**

I just go through the list of company names and look at the ones likely to interest me one at a time. That's about the only way I find sale searching on MM tolerable.

**DaveC**

Dead Keep gameplay video

**ced1106**

ASOIF Stark vs. Lannister starter : $64.
Some ASOIF at 20% off, possibly more since GZ has odd pricing for some of its games.
Weight-based shipping.

https://shop.gamezenter.com/products/a-song-of-ice-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game

I have better luck using BoardgameOracle than the GZ site to find their sales.

Not too many miniatures games on their Best Offiers.
https://www.boardgameoracle.com/store/kyjyeoD8/gamezenter/offers

**DaveC**

DC Heroes United announcement - July 2024

https://gamefound.com/en/projects/cmon/dc-heroes-united

**rybackstun**

That's a REALLY bad time for this to come out for me. I'm definitely gonna back it but I'm gonna have to save a crap ton of money for this and another release that month.

**Gallahad**

I'm a huge CMON fan, but I'm getting worried about the number of projects they have going.

Either they emerge in a couple years as a much larger company (feels like the number of campaigns they are running are up 50%), or the whole thing comes crashing down when they can't convince Peter to pledge to pay for Paul's project.

I think it will be the former, as CMON seems to have their finger on the pulse on what the market wants (super hero stuff!). I mean it looks like even their pre-order for the Dead Keep (Paul Bonner art/sculpts Zcide based dungeon crawler) has likely made $1MM+ dollars.

They have a large stable source of retail sales with their ASOIAF game which continues to go from strength to strength, and they just launched a skirmish version of the ASOIAF game with a $1.8MM crowdfunding campaign (so probably a $2.5MM total when all is said and done). Their massively popular Cthulhu Death May Die 2nd Kickstarter should deliver this year, leading to a bump in retail sales as more people get introduced to a top performing game.

Everything looks good from what I can see.... but I'm still getting nervous. They have many many pans in the oven.

**rybackstun**

The backing of Asmodee helps a lot for CMON but I won't say I don't share a similar fear of the potential collapse.

I do genuinely think that each CMON KS is just a pre-order at this stage rather than "we need money to make this". The system works well for them.

**Kalamadea**

CMON is the Juggernaught, at this point. One of the only companies I will back a KS without worry. It is 100% pre-order and marketing buzz at this point, you pay retail prices unless you go for all-ins. Your bonus for paying a year+ ahead is really just the exclusives, but they're also pretty good at delivering nearly on-time nowadays.

Thank god DC United is more chibi crap, Dead Keep had me waffling will-I-won't-I, but those hideous SD figures are an easy pass

**warboss**

Kalamadea wrote:
CMON is the Juggernaught, at this point. One of the only companies I will back a KS without worry. It is 100% pre-order and marketing buzz at this point, you pay retail prices unless you go for all-ins. Your bonus for paying a year+ ahead is really just the exclusives, but they're also pretty good at delivering nearly on-time nowadays.

They're even trying to pick up the pieces left over from other companies' crowdfunding messes now because they don't have enough on their plate with their own projects apparently.

**Gallahad**

Kalamadea wrote:
CMON is the Juggernaught, at this point. One of the only companies I will back a KS without worry. It is 100% pre-order and marketing buzz at this point, you pay retail prices unless you go for all-ins. Your bonus for paying a year+ ahead is really just the exclusives, but they're also pretty good at delivering nearly on-time nowadays.

Thank god DC United is more chibi crap, Dead Keep had me waffling will-I-won't-I, but those hideous SD figures are an easy pass

Yeah, I buy a lot of CMON stuff (they basically get 90% of my hobby budget in any given year). I don't like the SD stuff either though, so that is also an easy pass.

I think I might have waffled back into the "I'm getting this!" camp on Dead Keep.

The minis all have sculpted bases (and some might even be multi material) and there are a lot of unique sculpts for the baddies which is giving it a nice premium feel. Shipping isn't even too bad ($30) for the all in

Board Game Co guy says it is difficult to win (my favorite style of co-op game).

Plus Paul Bonner....

I think I might fail my willpower check again, despite having three outstanding projects with CMON already (Mordred, Death May Die FotU, and ASOIAF Tactics)

**straken619**

Glad I'm not the only one worried.
Last year I backed Zombicide White Death which should start shipping in a month or so.
And now I backed ASOIAF Tactics. I haven't even paid for shipping yet and it feels like every week I see a new project from them.
The Dead Keep, Degenesis: Clan Wars, Plague Bearer RPG, DC Heroes United, God of War: The Board Game.

**DaveC**

Probably worth posting this now - it came out on the 27th of March - 2023 annual results

https://cmon-files.s3.amazonaws.com/pdf/cmon_file/file/852/e_22671_AD_1___CMON__28_Mar_1905_ESS.pdf

Revenue - $45m more or less the same as 2022
Cost of Sales - $21.4m
Gross Profit - $23.6m

Expenses and Other Costs $22.3m
Net Profit before tax $1.3m

Revenue is comprised of
Wholesale $18.6m
Crowdfunding $26.3m
Others $0.1m

Net Assets are $19.3m including cash on hand of $3.2m.
Current Liabilities exceed Current Assets by $3.5m - but liabilities includes $6.6m in contract liabilities (outstanding KS) and $4.3m in borrowings (due within 12 months) and that won't all fall due at the same time anyway (or borrowings can be rolled over). Per the notes crowdfunding revenue is recognized on delivery so the 2023 revenue won't include KS not yet delivered (which amounts to $5.6m) but the liabilities do recognise them as an outstanding,

The company is profitable and doesn't rely as heavily on crowdfunding income as it might appear.

There also seems to be some internal changes going on, Ng Chern Ann and David Doust have had an acting in concert agreement from 2009 to date which means they vote with each other and thus are controlling shareholders, they also had a non compete agreement but as of 11 April 2024 those agreements are to end at the request of David Doust and neither will be a controlling shareholder after that date as they won't be pooling their resources. The note to the stock exchange says there's no effect on the company but there must be something behind it?

**Gallahad**

That is really interesting DaveC, thanks for sharing.

Very curious to see what is going on with the new voting arrangement.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

A disagreement over where to take the company?

Or wanting to sell or buy shares ?

**warboss**

DaveC wrote:

Revenue is comprised of
Wholesale $18.6m
Crowdfunding $26.3m
Others $0.1m

Net Assets are $19.3m including cash on hand of $3.2m.
Current Liabilities exceed Current Assets by $3.5m - but liabilities includes $6.6m in contract liabilities (outstanding KS) and $4.3m in borrowings (due within 12 months) and that won't all fall due at the same time anyway (or borrowings can be rolled over). Per the notes crowdfunding revenue is recognized on delivery so the 2023 revenue won't include KS not yet delivered (which amounts to $5.6m) but the liabilities do recognise them as an outstanding,

The company is profitable and doesn't rely as heavily on crowdfunding income as it might appear.

What percentage did you expect them to generate from crowdfunding out of curiosity? I figured at least half (which for me sounds like alot personally as an observer) but I do see their products at retail constantly so obviously that generates sales and factored into my own guess.

**Gallahad**

warboss wrote:

What percentage did you expect them to generate from crowdfunding out of curiosity? I figured at least half (which for me sounds like alot personally as an observer) but I do see their products at retail constantly so obviously that generates sales and factored into my own guess.

I think a lot of people think CMON revenue is like 90% KS rather than 60%. I probably would have guessed something similar to you given how popular the ASOIAF game is becoming, but I guess you can't discount the power of super hero themed games with KS exclusives.

**warboss**

Gallahad wrote:
warboss wrote:

What percentage did you expect them to generate from crowdfunding out of curiosity? I figured at least half (which for me sounds like alot personally as an observer) but I do see their products at retail constantly so obviously that generates sales and factored into my own guess.

I think a lot of people think CMON revenue is like 90% KS rather than 60%. I probably would have guessed something similar to you given how popular the ASOIAF game is becoming, but I guess you can't discount the power of super hero themed games with KS exclusives.

If I only saw their products being talked about in relation to their kickstarters' massive successes in niche hobby formats like here and they then only sold them through their own online store or if FLGS's had to order direct through them as just a manufacturer selling direct, then I'd probably have guessed 90% as well. I'd put most of the other KS minis and board games in that category frankly. Knowing they're a massive (for this hobby) distributor themselves with dozens of products that hundreds to thousands of FLGS want to stock as well as seeing a limited selection of their more mass market friendly products on sale at big box/chain stores, I figured around 50% as a safe bet.

**ced1106**

Gamenerdz Deal of the Day: Massive Darkness 2 : Feyfolk Enemy Box.

Comes down to $1 per mini, for fey and harpies.

https://www.gamenerdz.com/massive-darkness-2-feyfolk-enemy-box

Krypta's painted mini's : https://kryptakrolow.blogspot.com/2022/10/massive-darkness-2-hellscape-feyfolk.html