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Currently, I'm running a watch captain with a storm bolter and a relic blade, but I'm not 100% sure that is allowed.

He has these two rules:

"This model may replace its chainsword with a relic blade or xenophase blade"

"This model may replace its chainsword and master-craft boltgun with two items from the Deathatch Equiptment list"

Basically, I'm using the second one to get a storm bolter and chainsword, then using the first to swap the chainsword to the relic blade. I'm unsure if that second part is valid.

Can that chainsword be swapped and are there any relevant rules or faqs that clarify this. There really isn't much of a reason for this setup to not be valid, but with how GW does Deathwatch, you never know.

While I'm here, I might as well ask and additional question. For what every reason, GW made it so that librarians and chaplains can only take pistols. I was told that the index could be used to give them storm bolters and I've seen the chart, but I wasn't sure about the Special issue ammunition. It it correct that that I can simply spend 4 points and give one of these guys a storm bolter with special issue ammunition? (I guess the index equipment chart could also be an additional way for the answer to my first question to be "yes", but the rules question still stands.)


Thanks

I can't recall what the specific FAQ question was, but there was a similar question to your first one about somebody swapping out an item to get that item back and another item. The FAQ had said you can't change out the item you picked up for yet another, so I don't think you'd be able to change out the chainsword you got with the storm bolter.

Ad for the index, I would think that you would have to have either the index say you can get the special ammo for the storm bolter, or a line for the librarians and chaplains that says they can access the special issue ammo for their weapons (not just for pistols) in order to get it, unless there's a blanket statement for the army saying everyone with that faction can get access to the special ammo. If you don't have a mention like those, I don't think you'd get the ammo.

 doctortom wrote:
I can't recall what the specific FAQ question was, but there was a similar question to your first one about somebody swapping out an item to get that item back and another item. The FAQ had said you can't change out the item you picked up for yet another, so I don't think you'd be able to change out the chainsword you got with the storm bolter.

I believe you're referring to this from the 'Stepping Into a New Edition' document:

Q: Can a model take the same wargear option more than once? For example, can a Space Marine Terminator replace his storm bolter with a cyclone missile launcher and another storm bolter, and then replace its ‘new’ storm bolter with a heavy flamer?

A: No.

 Ghaz wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
I can't recall what the specific FAQ question was, but there was a similar question to your first one about somebody swapping out an item to get that item back and another item. The FAQ had said you can't change out the item you picked up for yet another, so I don't think you'd be able to change out the chainsword you got with the storm bolter.

I believe you're referring to this from the 'Stepping Into a New Edition' document:

Q: Can a model take the same wargear option more than once? For example, can a Space Marine Terminator replace his storm bolter with a cyclone missile launcher and another storm bolter, and then replace its ‘new’ storm bolter with a heavy flamer?

A: No.

That's the one! Thank you.

So as it stands, my first question seems to have a clear answer in an faq, but the second is still unclear.

What they did in the index was just list all of the profiles for the space marine units that you can use. This list included Captains, librarians, and chaplains. I vaguely remember that there was some confusion in applying special issue ammunition to those models since it wasn't tied to the unit data sheets on that list. (But was listed on the unique DW units.

What the SIA rule said was "When this unit fires a bolt pistol, boltgun, twin boltgun, staker boltgun, or Guardian spear, you can choose to fire SIA...."

I'm also looking at the chart from the designer's comentary for when using a codex unit with index war gear.

"Use the codex version of your model datasheet, but you can choose to use the index version for its wargear options. (Note that if the wargear has rules in the codex, these replace the index rules)."

Librarians and chaplains from the index could take storm bolter. (the captain could take a SB and relic blade for that matter as well). Every non vehicle storm bolter in the Deathwatch Codex has SIA

Does the Librarian have the SIA rule and happen to be armed with a Bolt Pistol or is he armed with “Bolt Pistol with SIA”?

In the codex, he has the SIA rule.

one thing to note is that the designer commentary doesn't really apply to much of the deathwatch HQs, because they went from being a renamed/restricted datasheet to an entirely new, separate one for thier own unit.

until GW FAQs otherwise, the new codex wording takes precedence and makes the relic blade mutually exclusive with the vet list.

(how you choose to play it can be debated all day among your group)

 WindstormSCR wrote:
one thing to note is that the designer commentary doesn't really apply to much of the deathwatch HQs, because they went from being a renamed/restricted datasheet to an entirely new, separate one for thier own unit.

until GW FAQs otherwise, the new codex wording takes precedence and makes the relic blade mutually exclusive with the vet list.

(how you choose to play it can be debated all day among your group)

Yeah, you can only take the Xenophase Blade or the Relic blade with a MC Boltgun, you can't take it with anything else.

 Chris521 wrote:
In the codex, he has the SIA rule.

Then it applies to any applicable weapon he is armed with.

I’ll leave it to those with the the Index and Codex to argue if the Librarian can be legally armed with a storm bolter.

 WindstormSCR wrote:
one thing to note is that the designer commentary doesn't really apply to much of the deathwatch HQs, because they went from being a renamed/restricted datasheet to an entirely new, separate one for thier own unit.

until GW FAQs otherwise, the new codex wording takes precedence and makes the relic blade mutually exclusive with the vet list.

(how you choose to play it can be debated all day among your group)

Not true.

The index has this as its wording for the HQs:

• Chaplain (p.19)
• Librarian (p.14)
• Watch Captain - use the Captain datasheet (p.12)

It has this for the wargear option for captains:

A DEATHWATCH Captain may replace his chainsword with a xenophase blade.

Looking at the Captain datasheet on p.12

• This model may replace its m-c bg with an item from Pistols, combi-weapons or melee weapons list.
• This model may replace its chainsword with a storm shield, relic blade, or item from the melee weapons list.

As per the Designer Commentary flow chart, the captain had an option in previous rendition of the datasheet to take a thing in a particular way. Hence, you can still do that, since they still have not removed the indexes as legal to play, nor have they removed the flowchart as an official means by which you can take gear.

Hence, you can swap out the MC BG with a storm bolter and take a relic blade.

Librarians and Chaplains can still take boltguns as per the same rules, looking at the entry in the Index.

Well, I've sent of an email to the faq team. Hopefully they can give a good answer to this stuff. The Deathwatch are no stranger to unclear war gear load outs (remember the bolter/shotgun from 7th).

As far as that captain goes, I can just swap the blade to a thunder hammer and avoid all confusion. His chaplain friend, however, is all over the place. Basically I want him to have a Sorm bolter (with SIA), a power fist, and a jump pack. The PF and JP are explicitly not allowed in index but allowed in Codex. I'm not sure that changes anything though since I think the chart is only used for the storm bolter.

Of course, if the rules writers didn't put these stupid restrictions in the first place, we wouldn't have these problems.

I would just use the codex and save yourself some time.

For the sake of closure, while today's FAQ didn't address the index shenanigans, it did address the two main topics.

As far a the codex is concerned, they have confirmed that you can't do the double swap to get a relic blade with a storm bolter.

For the Librarian and Chaplain storm bolters, they side stepped the actual question by simply giving them combi weapon options.

While I would have liked a direct answer, I think librarian and chaplian storm bolters were the only thing that fell into that little whole, so the original question is now isn't necessary.