Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So you have the following races:

Eldar = Space Elves

Dark Eldar = Space Dark Elves

Orks = Space Orcs

Necrons = Space Tomb Kings

Tyranids = Space Sea Monsters

etc...

But then you have the Abhumans and Transhumans:

Blood Angels = Space Vampires

Space Wolves = Space Werewolves

Ratlings = Space Halfings

Ogryn = Space Ogres

Squats = Space Dwarves

So why did GW decide that some Fantasy races deserved to be their own 40k Xenos Race while others were relegated to Sub Species of Humans and Adeptus Astartes?

Space Orks and Space Elves were there from day one as were Ogryns, Ratling and Squats

Marine Vampires were a bit later

Marine werewolves much later.

The Marine ones - especially recently have exploded into self parody in order to constantly self justify their own existence and sell new models to those followers of those armies (at the expense of other ranges).

My guess would be that because Fantasy was their first game, this was just your classic "80s" port into space. Likely the players and modelers who would buy their Fantasy line, would be the exact same people to buy their new space line. Keeping it familiar makes good business sense.

Ironically it worked out a little too well, with Fantasy taking a back seat to 40K for the last 30+ years. 40K is definitely one of the most unique settings I've come across before.

40k kind of started as a semi-parody as fantasy IN SPACE! Fantasy races are there because half the gimmick was seeing races you semi-know in a new setting.

Hatachi wrote:
.... seeing races you semi-know in a new setting.

This is the whole reason I stick with 40K and cannot stand Warmahordes. For all its "originality" Warmahordes is just too foreign. And I don't much like steam-punk.

I think my point might have gotten lost in how I worded it. I meant, how come Dwarves, Halflings, etc are not their own Xenos race?

Because they're 'just' short humans, tall humans, fat humans, etc in a way orcs - green skin and tusks - aren't.

You could argue Eldar (Dark Eldar didn't exist until 3rd edition) could have been a human subspecies too, and to an extent they were; in 1st edition humans and eldar could interbreed and there was a half-eldar ultramarine named in the background, if you can believe that now.

Because 40k started off as Warhammer Fantasy in space.
WHFB was GW's first game and their main one back then.

Necrons weren't space tomb kings per se. Whilst they did have have an Egyptian theme, they also took inspiration from other forms of cthonic / sepuchral horror (Grim Reaper, Xipe Xotec, Spyders, wraiths, etc), as well as a healthy dose of terminator, cybermen, etc.

It was only after 5th ed that GW started beating the undead egyptian horse.

Likewise, Tyranids have more to do with the idea of a locust swarm / typical alien invasion than sea monsters. Yes, there's a hive fleet called Kraken, but that's more to do with it being a big monster than it living in the sea.

Easy Answer, by that time 40k came up as Fantasy in Space, Dwarfs, Halfings and Ogres were part of the Fantasy Empire Army

Imperium was Empire in Space it was just natural that Halflings, Ogres and Dwarfs were part of that Empire too

And Necrons started as Chaos Robots

And Tyrandis were not a Fantasy Faction in Space but a mix of Starship Troopers and Alien
The same as Navigators and a lot of Backgrund was taken from Dune

Ogres weren't part of the Empire though. They were mercenaries. Ditto for Dwarves; they were allies, not imperials.
That said, Squats weren't really part of the Imperium either. They were more like an enclave.

kodos wrote:Easy Answer, by that time 40k came up as Fantasy in Space, Dwarfs, Halfings and Ogres were part of the Fantasy Empire Army

Imperium was Empire in Space it was just natural that Halflings, Ogres and Dwarfs were part of that Empire too

And Necrons started as Chaos Robots

And Tyrandis were not a Fantasy Faction in Space but a mix of Starship Troopers and Alien
The same as Navigators and a lot of Backgrund was taken from Dune

kodos wrote:Easy Answer, by that time 40k came up as Fantasy in Space, Dwarfs, Halfings and Ogres were part of the Fantasy Empire Army

Imperium was Empire in Space it was just natural that Halflings, Ogres and Dwarfs were part of that Empire too

And Necrons started as Chaos Robots

And Tyrandis were not a Fantasy Faction in Space but a mix of Starship Troopers and Alien
The same as Navigators and a lot of Backgrund was taken from Dune

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Ogres weren't part of the Empire though. They were mercenaries. Ditto for Dwarves; they were allies, not imperials.
That said, Squats weren't really part of the Imperium either. They were more like an enclave.

This is what I was looking for.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ogres weren't part of the Empire though. They were mercenaries. Ditto for Dwarves; they were allies, not imperials.

Yes for ogres although mercenray ogres coming later were different, and dwarfs were imperial als mentioned for living in Reikland

Perhaps it was to limit the amount of faction in its infancy.

you wouldnt need to dedicate molds to entire armies of ratlings or orgryns.

its probably enitrly possible to do it now but back then probably not so much.

[RE: OP]
Because it was the 80’s, and many choices made then seem silly today.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
[RE: OP]
Because it was the 80’s, and many choices made then seem silly today.

And 40K was more of a parody (of everything the writers thought cool) than a serious setting. The penalty for almost anything in the Imperium was death, but if you were lucky you could get off the hook for littering or late library books with a lifetime assignment to the Imperial Guard.

Only if you had that late library book accidentally.

Dwarves and halflings (and sometimes ogres) always seem closer to humans than orcs and elves, in pretty much any post-Tolkien fantasy. That's presumably why they became Abhumans rather than "proper" alien races.

It's not a perfect mapping from 3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy Battles to Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader; there's no Skaven or undead, and Tyranids aren't a reflection of something from WFB. mortal followers of Chaos weren't present, either. Mutants were described as resulting from environmental pollution rather than magic, and while there were a variety of warp entities (daemons, Enslavers and the psychneumon wasp thing), none of them were described as "chaotic". RT did have vampires, though. And carnivorous face flannels.

They have since added Tomb Kings though.

Space Slann were a thing too, and they had their own army in Fantasy.

Kinda miss the little doods...

 Momotaro wrote:
Space Slann were a thing too, and they had their own army in Fantasy.

Kinda miss the little doods...

Space dinosaurs ftw. As I recall they where the living descendants of the old ones. Wish they where still around.

Concerning Necrons they used to be more or less C’thulu in space. They where full of lovecraftian references, like how the C’tan where sleeping “beyond the gates of Vaul” (I may remember the name wrong but it was a straight up lovecraft entity) and how their masters where unstoppable star gods. Basically use as to be undead C’thulu in space.

 Galef wrote:

Hatachi wrote:
.... seeing races you semi-know in a new setting.

This is the whole reason I stick with 40K and cannot stand Warmahordes. For all its "originality" Warmahordes is just too foreign. And I don't much like steam-punk.

WMH ain't steampunk. It's your stereotypical D&D setting in the midst of an industrial revolution. Or as they put it - "Full metal fantasy". Much like grimdark is to 40k.

They pretty much took what 40k did originally with taking familiar fantasy tropes and doing their own spin on them so I don't quite understand what makes it unfamiliar.

Rogue Trader was a very tongue in cheek port of Warhammer Fantasy into space. It was "Grim Dark" not because of it's gritty, dark age setting of the future, but in the style of Grimm's Stories. It was full of humor, and did not even come close to taking itself seriously (Random Chapters of Space Marines, deodorant grav tanks, Dwarves riding gravbikes, ummm... could go on but you should get the picture).

GW basically ported Fantasy into space... 40,000 years into the future. It was a lark. I doubt the game designers at the time ever thought that 40K Space Marines would become so popular or that 40K would come to dominate their sales.

Warhammer Fantasy from early days had sci-fi elements, with rules for finding crashed space ship or sci fi weapons as chaos gifts.

IIRC the original plan was to product some sprues of sci fi weapons but that plan was quickly abandoned as the game grew into its own thing. But mixing models was always encouraged the original IG Ogryn and beastmen only had 1 or 2 proper 40k models the rest were fantasy.

White Dwarf 93 wrote:
The Warhammer 40,000 background is an extension of the Warhammer game series, linking the Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay games into a complete background.

The WFB world was basically just one planet within the Imperium and for a long time after this idea was abandoned by Games Workshop they put a few easter eggs in as a but of fun, an example being the power fist that could be obtained as part of the Albion campaign.

[Pedantic] The WFB world was a feral world on the fringe of the Eye of Terror, it was not part of the Imperium [/pedantic]

Sigmar was one of the lost primarchs!

But getting back to the actual question - why are so many of the "fantasy" races abhumans instead of distinct aliens - I think it was just to show the variety of human civilisation. Remember, the main focus of 40k is the Impierum, and even more so in the beginning. The aliens were there for a bit of flavour and variety around the edges. Ogryns and Squats and Ratlings (and Navigators) are there as the old "adapt colonists to suit their new home" trope. It's going right back to Wells' Morlocks and Eloi in The Time Machine and Huxley's Alphas, Betas and Gammas in Brave New World. It demonstrates that the Imperium is so vast and ancient that there's been time for humanity to evolve different (sub-)species. Add in some late 80s fear of nuclear fallout to provide the really wacky mutants and you're golden.

(and beastmen were mutated humans in Warhammer fantasy, so that's nothing new in 40k)

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
But getting back to the actual question - why are so many of the "fantasy" races abhumans instead of distinct aliens - I think it was just to show the variety of human civilisation. Remember, the main focus of 40k is the Impierum, and even more so in the beginning. The aliens were there for a bit of flavour and variety around the edges. Ogryns and Squats and Ratlings (and Navigators) are there as the old "adapt colonists to suit their new home" trope. It's going right back to Wells' Morlocks and Eloi in The Time Machine and Huxley's Alphas, Betas and Gammas in Brave New World. It demonstrates that the Imperium is so vast and ancient that there's been time for humanity to evolve different (sub-)species. Add in some late 80s fear of nuclear fallout to provide the really wacky mutants and you're golden.

(and beastmen were mutated humans in Warhammer fantasy, so that's nothing new in 40k)

Its kinda sad actually, we barely ever really get to see any of that supposed variaty of cultures and ethnicities. There are barely any adaptions to different planets, everyone either just modern day looking humans or a small selection of abhumans. I guess its just geedubs not bothering with anything that doesnt have a model to sell, but its still a shame.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:

Its kinda sad actually, we barely ever really get to see any of that supposed variaty of cultures and ethnicities. There are barely any adaptions to different planets, everyone either just modern day looking humans or a small selection of abhumans. I guess its just geedubs not bothering with anything that doesnt have a model to sell, but its still a shame.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Rogue Trader was a very tongue in cheek port of Warhammer Fantasy into space. It was "Grim Dark" not because of it's gritty, dark age setting of the future, but in the style of Grimm's Stories. It was full of humor, and did not even come close to taking itself seriously (Random Chapters of Space Marines, deodorant grav tanks, Dwarves riding gravbikes, ummm... could go on but you should get the picture).

GW basically ported Fantasy into space... 40,000 years into the future. It was a lark. I doubt the game designers at the time ever thought that 40K Space Marines would become so popular or that 40K would come to dominate their sales.

Agreed, except for the attempted retconning of “grimdark” to be derived from Grimm. It’s quite famously from “In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war”.

Businesses make decisions based on what will make money. They (rightly) surmised there wasn’t enough player interest to support a whole line of Ogryns or ratlings or squats, but that there was enough to support Eldar. I think that was surely true then and this has been borne out by the fact that even with all the current playerbase and sub factions today, they have yet to release more than a handful of kits for those three abhuman types combined in the last 30 years. They want them in the universe as a kit but not a separate race with its own faction so they made them part of the empire. They then had to be abhumans rather than aliens to fit with the setting and story of what the empire is.