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I don't know if this is being discussed elsewhere, but I just saw on the FW website that they're discontinuing a large amount of the space marine weapons and all the MKII space marine line.
Why? Do people just flat out not buy them? They're still churning out Horus Heresy stuff so I don't get why they'd discontinue such a large portion of their stuff, especially all the terminator special weapons and at least half of the marine portable heavy weapons. Surely someone buys those?
Th only answer I can think of is they're being released in plastic, but releasing weapon packs isn't really GW's style.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
The story from FW employees was that MKII just isn't a big seller, which is understandable with BoP and BaC existing with plastic Mk3 and Mk4 I suspect most people will be buying mk3 and mk4 parts to match the plastic marines. They need to free up warehouse and presumably production space for specialist games and any new releases
Forgeworld is a company that creates a lot of niche and specialist product. Keeping product that isn't selling on shelves, and keeping the molds for them, isn't viable.
Things will always be retired as new kits are released, that's just the nature of the beast.
But it's not just the MKIIs, it's a whole host of HH stuff, and it basically invalidates a large part of the range too. Want terminators? Sure, you just cant' give them arms. Does anyone know how long 'last chance to buy' lasts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 10:49:04
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
Stux wrote: Forgeworld is a company that creates a lot of niche and specialist product. Keeping product that isn't selling on shelves, and keeping the molds for them, isn't viable.
Things will always be retired as new kits are released, that's just the nature of the beast.
Whilst you are right, that is the arena of a niche business model. They should be able to maintain a range of low turnover items. I think their casting process is their biggest draw back in that regard, how much of their range could have been sold as print on demand? Shapeways have shown that it would work. No storage needed, no staffing needed beyond packaging, and casting could be streamlined to larger kits. They are trying to be niche and high turnover at the same time, and choices like what we have seen recently are the result of that.
The main takeaway from this is that Forgeworld need to step up their game communication wise.
I suspect that what's happening here is that an accountant type who doesn't know/care about the game and lore is looking at the lowest selling SKUs and deciding to cut them to make space in the warehouse and production schedule for bigger sellers and new products. As has been said, I suspect the MkII is a low selling range due to the plastic Mk III being available which is a very similar design so a lot of players who like that kind of look will be happy with the MkIII - and you get 10 guys with weapons for the same price as 5 Mk II guys without weapons from FW. The FW MkIII and MkIV ranges at least have the advantage of being compatible with the plastic GW ones.
The problem being that gamers look at this move and see something iconic being discontinued (one of the major marks of marine armour) and worry about what this means for the future of the whole heresy line. You'd think that somebody at Forgeworld would realise that. It wouldn't take much effort at all to say through an official channel "Sorry guys, we cut these because they just weren't selling enough. But 30K isn't going anywhere, we've got some cool stuff lined up..." etc. We've effectively got that response - but only from individual Forgeworld employees when asked in person at events. That's hardly the way to reassure your whole playerbase.
I believe that FW still does things with scuplts and casts, so printed to order isn't an option, but yes they could quite easily have moved some items from main always in stock to cast to order or have stuff that is only cast every 6 months to a year and its limited supply untill it comes back around on the production schedual.
Ice_can wrote: I believe that FW still does things with scuplts and casts, so printed to order isn't an option, but yes they could quite easily have moved some items from main always in stock to cast to order or have stuff that is only cast every 6 months to a year and its limited supply untill it comes back around on the production schedual.
Of course it's an option. Keep the molds because you aren't stupid, if anyone buys a made-to-order kit you pull the molds out and cast one. Either you're selling something and making a profit, or the molds are just sitting there costing you nothing. There's absolutely no reason not to do this other than sheer stupidity.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Because GW said so.
Maybe because the need to focus on supporting the GW specialist games or GW just don't want to waste time/money not good selling stuff (which is kind of strange as FW is still more "made to order" than regular production)
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Peregrine wrote: Of course it's an option. Keep the molds because you aren't stupid, if anyone buys a made-to-order kit you pull the molds out and cast one. Either you're selling something and making a profit, or the molds are just sitting there costing you nothing. There's absolutely no reason not to do this other than sheer stupidity.
You forgot Managment interference, which I suspect from reading between the lines of what forgeworld staff have said is the real drive for the current last chance to buy drive.
Because GW said so.
Maybe because the need to focus on supporting the GW specialist games or GW just don't want to waste time/money not good selling stuff (which is kind of strange as FW is still more "made to order" than regular production)
If GW wanted Specialist Games the main studio should have got off it's ass and done it, not dump it on FW while limiting their resources.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 11:55:28
What makes less sense is mkiii and iv basic squads staying available now that the plastics have been out for so long. I can't imagine mkii has sold much less without the cheaper alternative.
Ice_can wrote: I believe that FW still does things with scuplts and casts, so printed to order isn't an option, but yes they could quite easily have moved some items from main always in stock to cast to order or have stuff that is only cast every 6 months to a year and its limited supply untill it comes back around on the production schedual.
Of course it's an option. Keep the molds because you aren't stupid, if anyone buys a made-to-order kit you pull the molds out and cast one. Either you're selling something and making a profit, or the molds are just sitting there costing you nothing. There's absolutely no reason not to do this other than sheer stupidity.
except those molds sitting there do cost them something. storing them in a way that they can be pulled out for individual orders isn't exctly easy
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Actually, it appears that Forge World off-loaded a huge chunk of the production to China, and then didn’t pay the subcontractor. All of the cancelled product lines seem to be molds Forge World no longer have control over.
Looks like GW’s poor business management has finally reach FW.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
Ice_can wrote: I believe that FW still does things with scuplts and casts, so printed to order isn't an option, but yes they could quite easily have moved some items from main always in stock to cast to order or have stuff that is only cast every 6 months to a year and its limited supply untill it comes back around on the production schedual.
Of course it's an option. Keep the molds because you aren't stupid, if anyone buys a made-to-order kit you pull the molds out and cast one. Either you're selling something and making a profit, or the molds are just sitting there costing you nothing. There's absolutely no reason not to do this other than sheer stupidity.
except those molds sitting there do cost them something. storing them in a way that they can be pulled out for individual orders isn't exctly easy
Moving design and production of small very niche lines to 3d print to order would remove any issues there, as an infinite product range could be offered indefinitely. Problems for them removed, range stays available to customers.
Ice_can wrote: I believe that FW still does things with scuplts and casts, so printed to order isn't an option, but yes they could quite easily have moved some items from main always in stock to cast to order or have stuff that is only cast every 6 months to a year and its limited supply untill it comes back around on the production schedual.
Of course it's an option. Keep the molds because you aren't stupid, if anyone buys a made-to-order kit you pull the molds out and cast one. Either you're selling something and making a profit, or the molds are just sitting there costing you nothing. There's absolutely no reason not to do this other than sheer stupidity.
except those molds sitting there do cost them something. storing them in a way that they can be pulled out for individual orders isn't exctly easy
Moving design and production of small very niche lines to 3d print to order would remove any issues there, as an infinite product range could be offered indefinitely. Problems for them removed, range stays available to customers.
thats probably where they'll go eventually, but that also has a bunch of startup costs that currently mean they can't offer it at the right price point
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this is being discussed elsewhere, but I just saw on the FW website that they're discontinuing a large amount of the space marine weapons and all the MKII space marine line.
Why? Do people just flat out not buy them? They're still churning out Horus Heresy stuff so I don't get why they'd discontinue such a large portion of their stuff, especially all the terminator special weapons and at least half of the marine portable heavy weapons. Surely someone buys those?
Th only answer I can think of is they're being released in plastic, but releasing weapon packs isn't really GW's style.
Resik marines costs more than plastic. Who buys 20 without weapons for more than you pay for 30 with weapons, 5 terminatois, 2 characters and dread?
Not many. And then not many buys support kit that works in resin bup not in plastic. So rather than keep non seliing stuff costing fw money(ie profits) they stop them
Ice_can wrote: I believe that FW still does things with scuplts and casts, so printed to order isn't an option, but yes they could quite easily have moved some items from main always in stock to cast to order or have stuff that is only cast every 6 months to a year and its limited supply untill it comes back around on the production schedual.
Of course it's an option. Keep the molds because you aren't stupid, if anyone buys a made-to-order kit you pull the molds out and cast one. Either you're selling something and making a profit, or the molds are just sitting there costing you nothing. There's absolutely no reason not to do this other than sheer stupidity.
except those molds sitting there do cost them something. storing them in a way that they can be pulled out for individual orders isn't exctly easy
Moving design and production of small very niche lines to 3d print to order would remove any issues there, as an infinite product range could be offered indefinitely. Problems for them removed, range stays available to customers.
thats probably where they'll go eventually, but that also has a bunch of startup costs that currently mean they can't offer it at the right price point
Currently the company is probably the healthiest it's ever been. Hiring a couple of top end printers wouldn't be a big worry.
All Forge World really needs to do is communicate a little more with their customers. But they don't want to communicate publicly, so there's confused chatter all around the internet and people wildly speculating about Forge World's future strategy.
MK II was always my favorite heresy armor. It has more of a layered scale armor look, very medieval/knight looking. The MK III is just a bulky more clumsy up armored version of MKII. Plus if you're doing great crusade/beginning days of heresy MK II was the most common armor being used.
I'm sad to see a lot of this stuff go, and tbh it doesn't bode well for the chaos dwarfs line...cause if the heresy stuff isn't selling, and thats their premier line...then the CDs can't be far behind.
Thargrim wrote: MK II was always my favorite heresy armor. It has more of a layered scale armor look, very medieval/knight looking. The MK III is just a bulky more clumsy up armored version of MKII. Plus if you're doing great crusade/beginning days of heresy MK II was the most common armor being used.
Plus if you're going to discontinue lines surely you go for the MKIV and III? They've got actual plastic models which sell like hot cakes, and I can't imagine anyone paying the same price for 5 unarmed guys when you can get 10 complete guys. It just reeks of poor decision making. At least someone who's into HH might buy some MKII because GW don't offer it.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
JamesY wrote: What makes less sense is mkiii and iv basic squads staying available now that the plastics have been out for so long. I can't imagine mkii has sold much less without the cheaper alternative.
Why? It makes perfect sense for Mk II to sell less actually - plastic Mk III/IV has what, 17 bodies worth of weapons per 10 guys? I can see someone buying 5 resin bodies and gluing extra plastic arms to them for variety, I can't see anyone doing that with Mk II as any other mark arms look silly on them...
jeffersonian000 wrote: Actually, it appears that Forge World off-loaded a huge chunk of the production to China, and then didn’t pay the subcontractor. All of the cancelled product lines seem to be molds Forge World no longer have control over.
