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2018/05/21 23:47:44
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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My Tau are personally undefeated.
at 2k I run a very spammy list that isn't reliant on marker lights.
It's usually a triple battalion with
3 unique commanders
45 fire warriors
2 fireblades
longstrike
and ether 2 hammerheads with ion cannons plus some support elements like stealth suits or a skyray OR another hammerhead
Or I run a list with 2 commanders 30 firewarriors and 3 storm surges
My friend who is also a great player has never lost with his tau ether - he plays a more conventional list that uses broadsides stormsurge and a riptide.
Tau sept exclusively.
Eldar give me the most problems but I can usually outshoot them and the firewarriors give me a nice buffer from assault units plus a real nice short range zone of death. I'm not saying the army is unbeatable - stuff that ignores overwatch really hard counters it but I'm really suprised the army isn't doing better at events. Any ideas why they are struggling?
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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2018/05/21 23:54:50
Subject: Re:Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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What format are you playing?
At the London GT spots 7 and 28 were similar to those mentioned here. Maybe a bit less FW.
Both went 4 and 1. They just scored less points overall - probably from less board control and huddling, because they want their overwatch.
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2018/05/22 00:05:42
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Lack of soup will probably play a gigantic role.
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2018/05/22 00:11:22
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Because Tau didn't totally just play in the finals of the London GT invitational...
Here is the main issue with Tau in tournament.
Your going to win, but it won't be 20-0 because you sat in your deployment zone for to long and missing out on to many progressive objective VPs or Maelstorm points.
And to win major tournament you need to be able to go 20-0 every single round.
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2018/05/22 01:03:52
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
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Because you got no soul! Come back when Chaos even wants to fight you you fish'eds!
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2018/05/22 02:05:06
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Ordana wrote:Because Tau didn't totally just play in the finals of the London GT invitational...
Here is the main issue with Tau in tournament.
Your going to win, but it won't be 20-0 because you sat in your deployment zone for to long and missing out on to many progressive objective VPs or Maelstorm points.
And to win major tournament you need to be able to go 20-0 every single round.
This is so true. I lost a game in a tournament the other day because I played way too defensively. I probably killed 80% or more of my opponent's models (he was running Guard infantry spam with Raven Guard Aggressors in a triple battalion list) but I just couldn't get the objectives and lost on points. Problem is, if I hadn't played so defensively I might have gotten picked off by Scion plasma. My mobility problem was made worse by the fact that on the first turn I declared Kauyon and so couldn't move my big models, but that benefits your damage output greatly. I feel that Tau are an army that really wants to table their opponent to get max points. If you don't win by tabling, you generally won't max your score.
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2018/05/22 07:25:18
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I would say one of the main issues with the tau codex is the real drive for maximum damage output leads to a Tau list that takes a big hit the moment it starts moving, I have been playing around with a big suit heavy list but keeping enough support in CP's and the need to use aura buffs means that while it works, it's loosing damage or durability over just building a castle list.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 07:30:27
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2018/05/22 07:51:57
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I agree. The London GT setup didn’t really favour a heavy gunline army. Sure, they were able to win, but when a lot of the points are coming from Maelstrom it becomes a little harder unless you can table your opponent in turn 1 or 2.
It also depends on whether or not you’re facing 28 Custodes Jetbikes with -1 to hit.
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2018/05/22 12:28:29
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Kdash wrote:I agree. The London GT setup didn’t really favour a heavy gunline army. Sure, they were able to win, but when a lot of the points are coming from Maelstrom it becomes a little harder unless you can table your opponent in turn 1 or 2.
It also depends on whether or not you’re facing 28 Custodes Jetbikes with -1 to hit.
Yeah - that basically can't be beat by tau - you have a good point. Automatically Appended Next Post: Daedalus81 wrote:What format are you playing?
At the London GT spots 7 and 28 were similar to those mentioned here. Maybe a bit less FW.
Both went 4 and 1. They just scored less points overall - probably from less board control and huddling, because they want their overwatch.
Standard matched play with chapter approved missions. Beta rules in effect. Not using ITC LOS blocking rules though.
That's the best showing I've seen in a big torny for tau.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 12:42:59
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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2018/05/22 16:53:12
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Turns out that Alex Harrison, the Tau player who reached the finals of the London GT invitational, was found to be cheating and has been disqualified and banned from the tournament for life.
https://www.facebook.com/LondonGrandTournament/posts/1884689458248487
So maybe citing him as an example of how competitive Tau lists are is not a good idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 17:07:38
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2018/05/22 17:11:34
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played.
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2018/05/22 17:16:56
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Ice_can wrote:
I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played. this is why I don't go to tournaments out of my local area. Holy crap man. Automatically Appended Next Post:
How did you learn of this?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 17:17:31
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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2018/05/22 17:24:18
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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It's on the Facebook page.
Although, digging into those allegations a bit more, the only ones that strike me as off are the wound marker thing and the FtGG thing. Because of his manner in the former clip, and because of my expectation that seasoned players know their army's rules in the latter.
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2018/05/22 17:42:54
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ice_can wrote:
I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played.
Could you clarify what the facebook post gets wrong?
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2018/05/22 18:17:49
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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meleti wrote:
It's on the Facebook page.
Although, digging into those allegations a bit more, the only ones that strike me as off are the wound marker thing and the FtGG thing. Because of his manner in the former clip, and because of my expectation that seasoned players know their army's rules in the latter.
Did the hammerhand push help? That looked rather suspicious to me
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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2018/05/22 18:24:19
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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meleti wrote:
It's on the Facebook page.
Although, digging into those allegations a bit more, the only ones that strike me as off are the wound marker thing and the FtGG thing. Because of his manner in the former clip, and because of my expectation that seasoned players know their army's rules in the latter.
I see. Was this the only suspected cheater? Or were there many?
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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2018/05/22 18:41:09
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ordana wrote:Ice_can wrote:
I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played.
Could you clarify what the facebook post gets wrong?
They claim he cheated by using his 4 hammerheads during for the greater good.
His list is 3 hammerheads and longstrike.
Longstrike does have the FTGG rule and it applies to all weapons not just SMS like they claim.
The 3 hammer heads do not have FTGG at all and it applies to no weapons.
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2018/05/22 18:50:32
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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My experience of Tau in 8e is that they're strong but brittle; if they have a good matchup they're difficult to deal with and will win handily, but if a mechanic that counters them shows up they don't go to "have an uphill battle but can still score some points", they skip straight over that and go straight into "can't really play and will die ineffectually". Thousand Sons psykers with the ability to casually remove Drones around your battlesuits at long distances, move-again psychic powers giving you top-of-turn-one charges to deal with, abilities that ignore Overwatch, to-hit debuff stacks, etc. will turn most tournament scenarios into a struggle to score any points at all.
If your Tau are personally undefeated I suspect your local meta doesn't force you to deal with psyker-built Chaos lists or people abusing Quicken much.
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2018/05/22 19:10:57
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ice_can wrote: Ordana wrote:Ice_can wrote:
I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played.
Could you clarify what the facebook post gets wrong?
They claim he cheated by using his 4 hammerheads during for the greater good.
His list is 3 hammerheads and longstrike.
Longstrike does have the FTGG rule and it applies to all weapons not just SMS like they claim.
The 3 hammer heads do not have FTGG at all and it applies to no weapons.
Ah yes that is correct. Longstrike can fully FTGG and the other 3 HH's cant do it at all.
Problem Alex was doing it with the HH's aswell and even after the mistake was corrected the following day continued to use SMS's from HH's for FTGG which they are not allowed to do, they are not drones, they replace them. If they didn't you could also detach SMS's and they would need to target the closest targets :p
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2018/05/22 19:40:41
Subject: Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ordana wrote:Ice_can wrote: Ordana wrote:Ice_can wrote:
I get that he cheated and that needs to be dealt with but I would find it alot more reasonable if they weren't making rules mistakes in their own statements on how he should have played.
Could you clarify what the facebook post gets wrong?
They claim he cheated by using his 4 hammerheads during for the greater good.
His list is 3 hammerheads and longstrike.
Longstrike does have the FTGG rule and it applies to all weapons not just SMS like they claim.
The 3 hammer heads do not have FTGG at all and it applies to no weapons.
Ah yes that is correct. Longstrike can fully FTGG and the other 3 HH's cant do it at all.
Problem Alex was doing it with the HH's aswell and even after the mistake was corrected the following day continued to use SMS's from HH's for FTGG which they are not allowed to do, they are not drones, they replace them. If they didn't you could also detach SMS's and they would need to target the closest targets :p
That's my issue with the facebook post they state they TO's corrected him on that rule and he played it correctly on sunday.
If your going to correct people on playing their army wrong, don't get the correction wrong FFS.
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2018/05/22 22:46:18
Subject: Re:Why the lack of high placing tau in events?
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Bounding Assault Marine
United Kingdom
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If you ask my local club's Tau player it is because Tau cannot handle close combat, most armies can out shoot them when shooting is supposed to be their thing, and that drones wrack up points for the enemy in kill point games.
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40k: Space Marines (Rift Wardens) - 8050pts.
T9A: Vampire Covenants 2060pts. |
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