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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

Sauce

Seems he's more of a creepy old man than a Weinstien-style rapist but still. Damn.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 feeder wrote:
Sauce

Seems he's more of a creepy old man than a Weinstien-style rapist but still. Damn.


Morgan Freeman too... Who is not up to it in Holywood...

Theres more perverts there than the Internet!

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Power corrupts. I wouldn´t be surprised, if the majority of Hollywood´s superstars turn out to be bullies/pervs/rapists/etc.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

 Strg Alt wrote:
Power corrupts. I wouldn´t be surprised, if the majority of Hollywood´s superstars turn out to be bullies/pervs/rapists/etc.


It's everywhere. That's the point of the #metoo movement, that it affects everyone.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




 Strg Alt wrote:
Power corrupts. I wouldn´t be surprised, if the majority of Hollywood´s superstars turn out to be bullies/pervs/rapists/etc.


Not all, but the chances certainly go up when you become rich and succesful. Many are divorced from reality, able to buy whatever they want and surrounded by a staff of "yes-men" telling them how great they are and how good all their ideas are. When everyone you see tells you you're right maybe you eventually believe it. Someone saying no to your advances is just playing hard to get, because you know everyone wants you.
   
Made in us
Humorless Arbite





Maine

Feth, who is next? Big bird?

Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
 
   
Made in us
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





 feeder wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
Power corrupts. I wouldn´t be surprised, if the majority of Hollywood´s superstars turn out to be bullies/pervs/rapists/etc.


It's everywhere. That's the point of the #metoo movement, that it affects everyone.

Ditto on the "power corrupts" statements. Hollywood sees a pretty big slice of that cake for a couple reasons.
1) They make a ton of money.
2) They're famous

Go to any super expensive anything. Be it a gym, restaurant or social club. There will be a higher percentage of douches because they can afford to be. Now take those same rich douches and make em famous...creeper city.
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






I had someone recently tell me about how men have a predatory slant that makes them more likely to take advantage of women and whatever.

I calmly explained to them that traditionally men have held more positions of power. Men are no more likely then women to take advantage of people. It's about opportunity and believing you will get away with it.

In Hollywood you have a lot of money and power with preferential treatment of a few over the vast majority of those who work there as drones. Power and opportunity.

We have had a bunch of female teachers getting it on with their male students for the same reason.

Power corrupts is as real as it gets.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





What stands out to me is how, like so many other instances, other people knew. Per the story Alan Arkin witnessed Freeman harassing a girl, lifting up her skirt, and eventually told Freeman to stop. And then did nothing afterwards.

The NYT ran an interview recently with the cast of Arrested Development, it's a weird and complicated thing. Jeffrey Tambor is one of the people accused under MeToo, but for his other show, Transparent. The whole of Arrested Development have said Tambor never sexually harassed anyone on that show, but it prompted co-star Jessica Walter to say Tambor did verbally attack her constantly. The rest of the cast defend Tambor, sort of, saying different actors have different processes and sometimes things come to a head, and meanwhile Walter is there in tears saying in 60 years of working she's never experienced anything like that. Tambor admits his mistakes and says he is working on them, and Walter says she is moving past it, dropping the anger, and would work on more series of Arrested Development. It's a complicated, weird mess.

And I think it's probably pretty representative of the messed up culture that produces so many of these stories. Work in Hollywood is lucrative and empowering, but it's also scarce, even for more successful performers. It builds a culture where people are simultaneously empowered to do what they want to others, while at the same time everyone else is afraid to make waves that might see them lose work.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Is it shocking any more?

...and it's not just Hollywood and politicians... it's also any position of Power.

Also, "hashtag" Me Too. Try saying the "pound" instead of hashtag.

Someone didn't think things through...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

This is fairly mild. It is harassment if true, but not anywhere near sexual assault.

He should survive this if he apologises and moves on. Freeman was indirectly empowered by others doing far worse and getting away with it, and it seems, so far, that he had some limits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 sebster wrote:
What stands out to me is how, like so many other instances, other people knew. Per the story Alan Arkin witnessed Freeman harassing a girl, lifting up her skirt, and eventually told Freeman to stop. And then did nothing afterwards.


I have no critique of Arkin. Freeman allegedly harassed a girl, made it plain he wanted under her skirt, but was being fended off, but he in turn did not use force, only creepy persistence. Arkin demanded he stop and Freeman did, so that was that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/25 12:46:18


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





The allegations are more widespread than one occurence. Unwanted handsy behaviour is certainly trying to cross over from harassment to assault.

In general Freeman has come across as a strange man, like certain views of his on racism are odd to say the least in some interviews. This just adds a more predatory angle to the weirdness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orlanth wrote:
 sebster wrote:
What stands out to me is how, like so many other instances, other people knew. Per the story Alan Arkin witnessed Freeman harassing a girl, lifting up her skirt, and eventually told Freeman to stop. And then did nothing afterwards.


I have no critique of Arkin. Freeman allegedly harassed a girl, made it plain he wanted under her skirt, but was being fended off, but he in turn did not use force, only creepy persistence. Arkin demanded he stop and Freeman did, so that was that.

I agree with Sebster that it is really weird Arkin did nothing afterwards. What if Arkin hadn't come by or what if he isn't there another time. That Arkin can so easily walk away from a scene like that is quite odd.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/25 13:36:55


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I agree with Sebster that it is really weird Arkin did nothing afterwards. What if Arkin hadn't come by or what if he isn't there another time. That Arkin can so easily walk away from a scene like that is quite odd.


It's certainly indicative of a culture that has somewhat normalised this kind of behaviour.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Lance845 wrote:

Power corrupts is as real as it gets.


Power is also alluring to the corruptable, fwiw.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

came up ages back :

http://observer.com/2018/05/george-takei-accuser-scott-brunton-changed-his-story-of-drugs-assault/

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






There are a couple of levels here - standards used to be different, and by and large you don't change society by convincing people their dearly held beliefs are wrong and talking them through their personal journey to a better outlook.

You let them die, and raise the next generation to not try to touch people without permission.

But if I'm 80, and a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and that round thing in my face, by god, I will get sprung.
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Bromsy wrote:
There are a couple of levels here - standards used to be different, and by and large you don't change society by convincing people their dearly held beliefs are wrong and talking them through their personal journey to a better outlook.

You let them die, and raise the next generation to not try to touch people without permission.

But if I'm 80, and a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and that round thing in my face, by god, I will get sprung.


Nope, do not apologize. Life is about adapting and changing. People who refuse to do so just because, earn nothing but contempt. The only time you get a pass to be a dirty old person is if you are literally out of your mind. Alzheimer's/Dementia, but even then there are medications to stop/prevent that kind of behavior.

So if you think at 80 you will be popping boners and pinching nurse butts, I got some real bad news for you.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
There are a couple of levels here - standards used to be different, and by and large you don't change society by convincing people their dearly held beliefs are wrong and talking them through their personal journey to a better outlook.

You let them die, and raise the next generation to not try to touch people without permission.

But if I'm 80, and a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and that round thing in my face, by god, I will get sprung.


Nope, do not apologize. Life is about adapting and changing. People who refuse to do so just because, earn nothing but contempt. The only time you get a pass to be a dirty old person is if you are literally out of your mind. Alzheimer's/Dementia, but even then there are medications to stop/prevent that kind of behavior.

So if you think at 80 you will be popping boners and pinching nurse butts, I got some real bad news for you.


What apology? And if you think by and large people substantially change after like 35, you're more of an optimist than I am. Best case scenario you convince people to change, but mostly you just get them to keep their opinions quiet til they die.

   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Bromsy wrote:
You let them die, and raise the next generation to not try to touch people without permission.


I hate to point this out, but in my experience they just build little festering bubble communities off in the ass end of anywhere and raise kids just like them.



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Orlanth wrote:
I have no critique of Arkin. Freeman allegedly harassed a girl, made it plain he wanted under her skirt, but was being fended off, but he in turn did not use force, only creepy persistence. Arkin demanded he stop and Freeman did, so that was that.


You've misunderstood me. I'm not passing judgement on Arkin. Passing judgement on each person connected to any of these abuse allegations is pointless nonsense.

My comment about Arkin is a comment about coming to understand the culture in which people feel empowered to act as they do, and in which other people, victim and bystander, choose to simply move on afterwards, instead of pursuing vocational and legal remedies.


 Bromsy wrote:
What apology? And if you think by and large people substantially change after like 35, you're more of an optimist than I am. Best case scenario you convince people to change, but mostly you just get them to keep their opinions quiet til they die.


Nope, that is not how it works. People don't change because they're under 35 and someone explained it nicely to them. People changed when they're hit square in the face with a brick of accountability. This is true when they're 5, it's true when they're 85. The only thing that changes is people at 85 are able to escape accountability for a lot of their actions, and that's especially true when they're rich and famous.

Right now Freeman is learning some accountability. He might rationalise away what he did as not bad and avoid admitting to himself what he did was wrong, but he is still being held accountable for it. As a result, the next time he sees a young girl he likes, he isn't going to be thinking 'I am old and was raised to think I can persist in sexualising this girl no matter how clearly she tells me it was unwelcome'... he is going to be thinking 'that got me in lots of trouble so I will not be doing it again'.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/28 07:50:30


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orlanth wrote:
 sebster wrote:
What stands out to me is how, like so many other instances, other people knew. Per the story Alan Arkin witnessed Freeman harassing a girl, lifting up her skirt, and eventually told Freeman to stop. And then did nothing afterwards.


I have no critique of Arkin. Freeman allegedly harassed a girl, made it plain he wanted under her skirt, but was being fended off, but he in turn did not use force, only creepy persistence. Arkin demanded he stop and Freeman did, so that was that.

I agree with Sebster that it is really weird Arkin did nothing afterwards. What if Arkin hadn't come by or what if he isn't there another time. That Arkin can so easily walk away from a scene like that is quite odd.


The whole thing is that Arkin didn't walk away, he dealt with it himself.
So did Brad Pitt.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Still waiting for some of the people involved with this to be arrested for prostitution
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 sebster wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
I have no critique of Arkin. Freeman allegedly harassed a girl, made it plain he wanted under her skirt, but was being fended off, but he in turn did not use force, only creepy persistence. Arkin demanded he stop and Freeman did, so that was that.


You've misunderstood me. I'm not passing judgement on Arkin. Passing judgement on each person connected to any of these abuse allegations is pointless nonsense.

My comment about Arkin is a comment about coming to understand the culture in which people feel empowered to act as they do, and in which other people, victim and bystander, choose to simply move on afterwards, instead of pursuing vocational and legal remedies.


Sometimes it is better to deal with it in person. Societal labels are dangerous and can backfire. It was easier, safer and more efficient for Arkin to do as he did.
Understood that you don't blame Arkin, per se, but he was perhaps wiser in not bleating to the authorities.

When Brad Pitt muscled Weinstock rather than blow the whistle on him I think he did exactly the right thing. MeToo is only wise after it went viral, plenty of people did the MeToo thing before and it normally resulted in shutdowns of those who care enough to act and no action against perpetrators. Nassar case tells us that. However Arkin or Pitt saying 'stop or else' or words/actions to that effect are effective and survivable.


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





 Orlanth wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orlanth wrote:
 sebster wrote:
What stands out to me is how, like so many other instances, other people knew. Per the story Alan Arkin witnessed Freeman harassing a girl, lifting up her skirt, and eventually told Freeman to stop. And then did nothing afterwards.


I have no critique of Arkin. Freeman allegedly harassed a girl, made it plain he wanted under her skirt, but was being fended off, but he in turn did not use force, only creepy persistence. Arkin demanded he stop and Freeman did, so that was that.

I agree with Sebster that it is really weird Arkin did nothing afterwards. What if Arkin hadn't come by or what if he isn't there another time. That Arkin can so easily walk away from a scene like that is quite odd.


The whole thing is that Arkin didn't walk away, he dealt with it himself.
So did Brad Pitt.

But Arkin didn't deal with it though. He stopped Freeman once. Just like Pitt didn't deal with it going by the number of victims Weinstein made afterwards.

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Arkin isnt responsible for the worlds ills.

Had he or Pitt tried to blow the whistle prior to MeToo, they would have very likely ended their own careers and would likely have zero effect on those they accused.

Corruption in Hollywood is nothing new, and it has been in the media for the longest time also, there were major scandals in the 20's, and an equivalent to the MeToo movement that follows scandalous lives of Fatty Arbuckle and others.

People say 'why did nobody speak out', normally from the safety of never having had to face the decision, but also ignoring that there was no 'nobody', people do speak out, then become the nobodies, or lacked influence to be heard beforehand.

High ranking predators are often protected directly or indirectly.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Arkin isn't and I don't want to imply that. But his actions are symptomatic for how the industry/industries functions. Everybody keeping it private is exactly how it was allowed to continue for so long. Its an open secret nobody was willing to adress. MeToo wasn't some magically timed moment, it was the moment people finally stopped keeping an open secret. The problem with saying that keeping the open secret is ok because of your career is that is perpetuates the enviroment, which means the MeToo movement is going to fail in the end

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP) 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Arkin isn't and I don't want to imply that. But his actions are symptomatic for how the industry/industries functions. Everybody keeping it private is exactly how it was allowed to continue for so long. Its an open secret nobody was willing to adress. MeToo wasn't some magically timed moment, it was the moment people finally stopped keeping an open secret. The problem with saying that keeping the open secret is ok because of your career is that is perpetuates the enviroment, which means the MeToo movement is going to fail in the end


Again you miss the point by satying npbopdy wants to address this.

You forget that people do challenge it and get shut down, forgotten so completely that people end up saying 'nobody' cared enough to act.
The more powerful the accused the harder it is.

You are correct that the MeToo movement will fail in the end. Just as it did in the 1920's so they 'never let it happen again' becomes an empty sentiment.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





 Orlanth wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Arkin isn't and I don't want to imply that. But his actions are symptomatic for how the industry/industries functions. Everybody keeping it private is exactly how it was allowed to continue for so long. Its an open secret nobody was willing to adress. MeToo wasn't some magically timed moment, it was the moment people finally stopped keeping an open secret. The problem with saying that keeping the open secret is ok because of your career is that is perpetuates the enviroment, which means the MeToo movement is going to fail in the end


Again you miss the point by satying npbopdy wants to address this.

You forget that people do challenge it and get shut down, forgotten so completely that people end up saying 'nobody' cared enough to act.
The more powerful the accused the harder it is.

You are correct that the MeToo movement will fail in the end. Just as it did in the 1920's so they 'never let it happen again' becomes an empty sentiment.

But you say people challenge it and get shut down, so why weren't Arkin or Pitt shut down? There is obviously a limit to the reach of these people. That your run of the mill intern isn't speaking up is more understandable than people like Arkin or Pitt. You have the break the cycle of people shrugging their shoulders and going "oh Hollywood". It probably requires some law enforcement effort to facilitate the quiet relaying of information. But saying it is what it is will only hold efforts to combat it back.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Disciple of Fate wrote:

But you say people challenge it and get shut down, so why weren't Arkin or Pitt shut down? There is obviously a limit to the reach of these people. That your run of the mill intern isn't speaking up is more understandable than people like Arkin or Pitt. You have the break the cycle of people shrugging their shoulders and going "oh Hollywood". It probably requires some law enforcement effort to facilitate the quiet relaying of information. But saying it is what it is will only hold efforts to combat it back.


Corey Feldman spent a lot of years away from hollywood, career basically over because he "blew the whistle" and accused people of wrong-doing.

I think we all agree that the cycle needs to be broken, it's just that what others are trying to say here, is that even people with considerable clout in Hollywood realize that there are those with more power than them, and they would be out of a career if they rocked the boat in the wrong way.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Arkin isn't and I don't want to imply that. But his actions are symptomatic for how the industry/industries functions. Everybody keeping it private is exactly how it was allowed to continue for so long. Its an open secret nobody was willing to adress. MeToo wasn't some magically timed moment, it was the moment people finally stopped keeping an open secret. The problem with saying that keeping the open secret is ok because of your career is that is perpetuates the enviroment, which means the MeToo movement is going to fail in the end


Again you miss the point by satying npbopdy wants to address this.

You forget that people do challenge it and get shut down, forgotten so completely that people end up saying 'nobody' cared enough to act.
The more powerful the accused the harder it is.

You are correct that the MeToo movement will fail in the end. Just as it did in the 1920's so they 'never let it happen again' becomes an empty sentiment.

But you say people challenge it and get shut down, so why weren't Arkin or Pitt shut down? There is obviously a limit to the reach of these people. That your run of the mill intern isn't speaking up is more understandable than people like Arkin or Pitt. You have the break the cycle of people shrugging their shoulders and going "oh Hollywood". It probably requires some law enforcement effort to facilitate the quiet relaying of information. But saying it is what it is will only hold efforts to combat it back.


Arkin and Pitt weren't shutdown as they were not whistleblowers. They handled issues relevant to them them selves and with subtlety.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/28 18:52:56


 
   
 
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