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They're supposed to be the best equipped force in the Imprium. They have jetbikes and power armor that doesn't need a backpack fusion reactor.

And we know guardian spears can fire specialist ammo, Deathwatch Watch Masters use a guardian spear with specialist ammo.

So why don't Custodians by default have kraken or (perhaps more appropriately) vengeance rounds for their guardian spears?

Well the Forge Worlds are busy making things for Space Marines the other best equipped army in the Imperium. And the Primaris who are also the best equipped.

Skhmt wrote:
They're supposed to be the best equipped force in the Imprium. They have jetbikes and power armor that doesn't need a backpack fusion reactor.

And we know guardian spears can fire specialist ammo, Deathwatch Watch Masters use a guardian spear with specialist ammo.

So why don't Custodians by default have kraken or (perhaps more appropriately) vengeance rounds for their guardian spears?

Because The Emperor didn't tell them to. Pretty sure Custard ammo is more holy and of a higher quality, even if that doesn't translate into any Tabletop effect.

It's also possiable they do have it and just don't have it in table top for balance reasons. consider sternguard veterns for vanilla marines no longer have SIA

pm713 wrote:
Well the Forge Worlds are busy making things for Space Marines the other best equipped army in the Imperium. And the Primaris who are also the best equipped.

Forge Worlds don't make Custodes equipment. They might make the land raiders, but that's it as far as I know.

They already do 2 damage. Think of that as their specialist ammo. Instead of Kraken doing extra range they're doing extra damage.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They already do 2 damage. Think of that as their specialist ammo. Instead of Kraken doing extra range they're doing extra damage.

Watch Master's guardian spear (literally the same weapon) also does 2 damage and AP -1. He gets specialist ammo on top of that.

If i recall correctly, the acid in Hellfire rounds is synthesized from Tyranid DNA so it would make some sense why a Xenos-based technology would be more common in the militant arm of the Ordo Xenos.

Skhmt wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They already do 2 damage. Think of that as their specialist ammo. Instead of Kraken doing extra range they're doing extra damage.

Watch Master's guardian spear (literally the same weapon) also does 2 damage and AP -1. He gets specialist ammo on top of that.

Oh yeah they fixed that huh?

Skhmt wrote:
So why don't Custodians by default have kraken or (perhaps more appropriately) vengeance rounds for their guardian spears?

Tradition / supply.

Their ammo is almost certainly custom made in an unchanged ritualistic manner for the past 10000 years, whereas deathwatch ammo is a 'modern' invention for use against specific xenos threats.

The lorenisnpretty clear that the custodes aren't bound by thentradition and closed mindedness of the rest of the Imperium. If they don't have specialist ammo its because they havent decided they need it.

And to be fair, when if things get rough they might polish up the grav tanks and heresy era death rays and other toys to take out and play with, specialist bolter rounds are probably trite in comparison.

as I said we also know that sternguard HAD access to specialist ammo, but no longer do, presumably to give the death watch something unique, one can assume this is why the custodes don't have it.

in otherwords nothing is stopping them from having hellfire rounds in a novel... they just don't have it in table top cause balance

A.T. wrote:

Skhmt wrote:
So why don't Custodians by default have kraken or (perhaps more appropriately) vengeance rounds for their guardian spears?

Tradition / supply.

Their ammo is almost certainly custom made in an unchanged ritualistic manner for the past 10000 years, whereas deathwatch ammo is a 'modern' invention for use against specific xenos threats.

Allarus Terminator Armour and Dawneagle Jetbikes are newer than the Heresy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BigbyWolf wrote:
If i recall correctly, the acid in Hellfire rounds is synthesized from Tyranid DNA so it would make some sense why a Xenos-based technology would be more common in the militant arm of the Ordo Xenos.

True. But Vengeance Rounds are like mini plasma cores meant specifically to kill Chaos Marines. And Kraken Rounds are adamantium bolter rounds.

The Astartes and Custodes are irrational military-religious organizations. Changing their fighting style and weaponry is close to heresy. The Emperor after all has passed down their rites of battle - and to change those doctrines is to think you are above the Emperor. The same irrational religious thinking leads them to not wear helmets and do other things that aren't so smart in the scheme of things.

The more applicable military-religious organization to consider here is the Mechanicum; they're still holding a grudge for the Emperor keeping adrasite weapons away from them, so their ammunition workshops are not about to start sharing information with whoever the heirs to the Lastrum clan (a Terran faction that supplies the Custodians with fancy bolt weapons) might be.

Kraken rounds are literally adamantium bolter rounds. You can take a broken terminator's exoskeleton and make it into a thousand kraken rounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Astartes and Custodes are irrational military-religious organizations. Changing their fighting style and weaponry is close to heresy. The Emperor after all has passed down their rites of battle - and to change those doctrines is to think you are above the Emperor. The same irrational religious thinking leads them to not wear helmets and do other things that aren't so smart in the scheme of things.

The Custodes actually isn't an irrational military-religious organization. They're critical-thinking warrior-scholars. They're definitely not "military" nor are they set in their ways. They don't really even worship the Emperor as god. They don't even consider themselves a part of the Imperium.

Skhmt wrote:
Allarus Terminator Armour and Dawneagle Jetbikes are newer than the Heresy.

Page 41 - custodes codex - states they are relics of the crusade era.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Skhmt wrote:
They're supposed to be the best equipped force in the Imprium. They have jetbikes and power armor that doesn't need a backpack fusion reactor.

And we know guardian spears can fire specialist ammo, Deathwatch Watch Masters use a guardian spear with specialist ammo.

So why don't Custodians by default have kraken or (perhaps more appropriately) vengeance rounds for their guardian spears?

Because The Emperor didn't tell them to. Pretty sure Custard ammo is more holy and of a higher quality, even if that doesn't translate into any Tabletop effect.

Fluff wise.

They have regular bolter ammo,nits high grade stuff though and being shot with one in Emparors legion sent a heratics arms flying off and all.

Also there not a anti xeno force, I mean if on a anti xeno mission they are ultimate authority so could order deathwatch to supply the ammo, likewise they could get supplies of anti armour and so rounds but what bolters not kill they all carry high end power weaponry by default...

A.T. wrote:

Skhmt wrote:
Allarus Terminator Armour and Dawneagle Jetbikes are newer than the Heresy.

Page 41 - custodes codex - states they are relics of the crusade era.

Oh, missed that the dawneagle is from the crusade. Doesn't say anything about Allarus Terminator Armour though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

Also there not a anti xeno force, I mean if on a anti xeno mission they are ultimate authority so could order deathwatch to supply the ammo, likewise they could get supplies of anti armour and so rounds but what bolters not kill they all carry high end power weaponry by default...

The only specialist ammo that is meant for anti-xenos is hellfire. The others are just a chunk of dense metal for light armor penetration, plasma (specifically for killing chaos marines, not xenos), and explosives (for killing people hiding in bushes).

Skhmt wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Skhmt wrote:
Allarus Terminator Armour and Dawneagle Jetbikes are newer than the Heresy.

Page 41 - custodes codex - states they are relics of the crusade era.

Oh, missed that the dawneagle is from the crusade. Doesn't say anything about Allarus Terminator Armour though.

If you solely trust visuals it's catapracti armour that's been upgraded and modified for there own usage.

Its clearly based on the ainciant pattern with its massive shoulder guards and heavily enclosed helmet area vs other patterns.

 jhe90 wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Skhmt wrote:
Allarus Terminator Armour and Dawneagle Jetbikes are newer than the Heresy.

Page 41 - custodes codex - states they are relics of the crusade era.

Oh, missed that the dawneagle is from the crusade. Doesn't say anything about Allarus Terminator Armour though.

If you solely trust visuals it's catapracti armour that's been upgraded and modified for there own usage.

Its clearly based on the ainciant pattern with its massive shoulder guards and heavily enclosed helmet area vs other patterns.

Not really... it is terminator armor and it has somewhat similar shoulders, but every other part is different.