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http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/06/05/star-wars-last-jedi-star-kelly-marie-tran-purges-instagram-account-reportedly-due-to-online-bullying.html




This is just fething sad. I cringe at the thought of being associated with so called TRUE Star Wars fans.

I thought her character died.
No big deal. She should distance herself from Star Wars anyway.
Why would anyone want to be associated with the Last Jedi?

To start with: the people who altered her account to racial slurs are all A-Holes and Scumbags. And they should (but won’t) feel gakky about their actions.

Secondly: the character and the movie were both crappy. That’s not her fault though, it’s RJ’s. And Disney’s.

Because opinions vary outside of the interwebular echo chamber?

And it still proved hugely profitable?

At first I was worried this wouldn't be another Star Wars related thread but, thankfully, those fears were quashed.

The quality of the movie has nothing to do with this. As stated before. Not everyone who disliked the movie were bigots. But the bigots clearly exist. Its disgusting that they have any impact at all.

Bastards

Crap film, but even crapper way to treat someone.

That is quite sad.

Yes, Rose Tico is a crummy character. Yes, many found TLJ to be an awful movie.

That was hardly Tran's fault; blaming her for it would be like demanding Robert Englund be tried for the murders Freddy Krueger committed.

It's the same fanbase attitude that made a little kid who got to act in Star Wars hate Star Wars, although I'm sure with an extra dash of bigotry thrown in.

People need to grow the hell up.

 Ahtman wrote:
At first I was worried this wouldn't be another Star Wars related thread but, thankfully, those fears were quashed.

Star wars in geek media: old and busted

Britain threads in the OT: new hotness


So far as the lady in the OP, that's too bad. I thought she was a pretty good spot in an otherwise OK-ish movie.

She doesn't deserve abuse for having the misfortune of playing a crap character in a crap movie. None of the actors do.

Awful lot of "I'm sorry, but - " -type responses here.

That's very sad. I thought she played the character quite well right up until she completely misread the signals and landed one on Finn's lips.

Besides, it's hardly her fault that her character (and plotline) was utterly superfluous to the film.

I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

Oh dear, I broke the swear filter again. I seem to have a facility for inventing new scatalogical terminology.

Makes you wonder if Kathleen Kennedy was REALLY saying every person who hated the film was a bigot or if she was responding to a massive volume of her own in box full of bigotry and harassment she no doubt gets for daring to have tits and be involved in star wars.

I have no doubt she needs an immense filter to get anything done.

Also it's sortof psychologically proven we are better at remembering negative comments than good ones. So it's entirely possible a large amount of highly racist, bigoted ,and machoginistic feedback was magnified in the ears of RJ, Kelly and Kathleen kennedy.

There is a twitter thread on RJ's twitter where he condemns this kid of behaviour and someone responds with: but you have to be able to critice.

The SW fandom, like a great many of them, has a really ugly side.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

The swarm of raging "Han Soylo" and "Soylo: A Soy Wars Story" videos from the usual suspects on YouTube would suggest otherwise. I know this has become a controversial idea, but sexism isn't the only form of abusive behaviour.

 Spinner wrote:
Awful lot of "I'm sorry, but - " -type responses here.

And this kind of complete reverse-reading of what people actually say is hilarious. There hasn't been a single, solitary attempt to excuse or mitigate the behaviour of these scumbags.

 Lance845 wrote:
Makes you wonder if Kathleen Kennedy was REALLY saying every person who hated the film was a bigot or if she was responding to a massive volume of her own in box full of bigotry and harassment she no doubt gets for daring to have tits and be involved in star wars.

But I shouldn't be surprised, because this kind of "guilt by implication" fiction is the standard for these discussions - when someone hasn't actually said anything sexist or offensive, just insinuate what they actually said is somehow super-sekrit code for sexism or other bigotry.

Kathleen Kennedy has doubtless got gak for being a woman involved in Star Wars. I would wager a fair amount of money that any such is a tiny, tiny, minuscule fraction of the overall negative feedback towards her handling of the franchise and the state of the franchise generally.

That doesn't make it right she has to endure it. It doesn't excuse it. Neither does it excuse people losing perspective and generalising the behaviour of that tiny minority out to the rest of the critical portion of the fanbase - and don't dare try pretending that hasn't happened, less by Kennedy herself but by media talking heads using her statements in that way and by the other side of the over-invested fanbase coin.

So, lets get this out of the way for the avoidance of doubt: What's happened to Tran is wrong, and the individuals involved are despicable. Nobody should be subjected to abuse of this kind for any reason, but especially not over aspects of themselves they have no control over, or things that have happened that they are not responsible for.

Using this shitshow as a way to berate the broader fanbase, imply that actual misogyny on this kind of level is secretly bubbling away in the dark hearts of all critics of TLJ, or that criticism of a character in a film or a given actor's performance in a film(and this is a general remark since Tran wasn't a bad actor in TLJ) is equivalent to, or even vaguely in the same realm as this kind of actual bullying is not just dishonest, it is grotesquely counter-productive, since you not only associate entirely reasonable condemnations of bigotry and bullying with cynically-motivated point scoring and exacerbate the stupid "only lefty progressives like TLJ, only regressive knuckle-dragging alt-righters dislike TLJ" narrative, you also give this tiny, tiny minority of actual scumbags exactly what they want - a huge signal boost.

The problem Yodrin is people like deffrdread in this thread. It's about bullying not critiquing the movie. Criticism of TLJ is entirely separate of racist/mysoginistic harrasment of an actress.

How good or bad TLJ is should practically go unmentioned in this specific thread. You do not say but.

Also there is a reason both TLJ threads got locked and I called for the closing of one of them. Hint: It wasn't because people disagreed with me.

I am full wel aware the actual problemtic fans are few and far between. But if such things are not treated with near total zero tolernace by everyone else. It only takes a few.

I'd guess that the majority of negative comments Kathleen Kennedy got were absolutely vile, bullying nonsense rather than reasoned objective criticism, for the simple reason that normal people who are inclined to make reasoned criticisms of movies they don't like tend not to contact the movie producers directly, while absolutely horrible maniacs will.

 Yodhrin wrote:


So, lets get this out of the way for the avoidance of doubt: What's happened to Tran is wrong, and the individuals involved are despicable. Nobody should be subjected to abuse of this kind for any reason, but especially not over aspects of themselves they have no control over, or things that have happened that they are not responsible for.

Using this shitshow as a way to berate the broader fanbase, imply that actual misogyny on this kind of level is secretly bubbling away in the dark hearts of all critics of TLJ, or that criticism of a character in a film or a given actor's performance in a film(and this is a general remark since Tran wasn't a bad actor in TLJ) is equivalent to, or even vaguely in the same realm as this kind of actual bullying is not just dishonest, it is grotesquely counter-productive, since you not only associate entirely reasonable condemnations of bigotry and bullying with cynically-motivated point scoring and exacerbate the stupid "only lefty progressives like TLJ, only regressive knuckle-dragging alt-righters dislike TLJ" narrative, you also give this tiny, tiny minority of actual scumbags exactly what they want - a huge signal boost.

Nobody said it was bubbling away in the dark hearts of all critics. Very specifically I have said repeatedly that not everyone who criticizes the film is a bigot. What I have said is that the bigots exist. And unlike most people who don't like a film, go home, and just don't watch it again, bigots are motivated by their actual hate to go steps further.

You think that the amount of feedback she has received that is hate of the bigot variety is minuscule. Disagree. If history shows us anything, the worst of us are the most motivated to get out there and be heard because it's always the extremists who go the extra mile to make sure they are heard. I doubt very much that YOU wrote KK an email to express your displeasure with the way the movie turned out with reasonable criticisms. But youtube, twitter, reddit, and every other channel is flooded with the vitriol of people who want to go the extra mile and express their hate in ways that have nothing to do with the movie making process. I am sure her inbox has some reasonable criticisms in it. But to assume that that is the majority? You have to be blind to the facts of history to make that assumption.

I am neither leftist nor right. I think both political parties are full of idiots of similar and differing varieties. I never said the left like the movie or that the right hated it. Just like you saying

"Using this shitshow as a way to berate the broader fanbase, imply that actual misogyny on this kind of level is secretly bubbling away in the dark hearts of all critics of TLJ, or that criticism of a character in a film or a given actor's performance in a film(and this is a general remark since Tran wasn't a bad actor in TLJ) is equivalent to, or even vaguely in the same realm as this kind of actual bullying is not just dishonest, it is grotesquely counter-productive, since you not only associate entirely reasonable condemnations of bigotry and bullying with cynically-motivated point scoring and exacerbate the stupid "only lefty progressives like TLJ, only regressive knuckle-dragging alt-righters dislike TLJ" narrative, you also give this tiny, tiny minority of actual scumbags exactly what they want - a huge signal boost."

your assumption that criticisms of the racist/sexists/anti pan/gay/whatever equates to a criticism of a political party is not just dishonest, it's grotesquely counter productive, since you not only associate entirely reasonable condemnations of bigotry and bullying with cynically-motivated point scoring and exacerbate the stupid "The SJW idiots are on the rampage again pointing fingers at everyone" narrative, you also turn the discussion away from talking about the monsters who perpetuate this crap because of some need to defend against an attack that was never directed at you.

Acknowledgement 1: All the trolls and bullies of the internet should be behind bars. Not for bullying, everybody does that in one sense or the other. But for cowardice. Hiding behind a nickname to trample on peoples' feelings. Grow a fracking pair.

Acknowledgement 2: Internet trolls exist. Legislation to keep them on a leash does not. We can spend all our time until the end of the universe protesting cyberbullying, there is no practical way to filter them off the internet unless we collectively sign our privacy away to internet providers. And no matter how many Hollywood celebrities meltdown, I am not signing away my private life.

Acknowledgement 3: Famous people attract hate. You get yourself in the spotlight, you are guaranteed to get people who love you and people who hate you. Because that's how people are. Pretty sure there are people who hate Einstein as well as people who hate Morgan Freeman (the latter kind should definity be behind bars for lack of taste). Hell the fella who planned the math on a 12 year trajectory of a space droid and managed to land it on a passing-by asteroid after getting gravity catapult assistance on 5 different occasions managed to attract hate because of a pin-up girl t-shirt. I have never been famous, but it is my suspicion that the hardest part of being one is to manage the world's expectations and be able to levitate above the hate, simply because the internet trolls have no life and they are relentless.

Acknowledgement 4: If you try to fight the internet you will lose, 100% of the time. Best solution is just ignore the trolls. If you can't do that , hire a PR specialist to shield you from the internet. You are, after all, rich and famous. You can afford it. Same way I hire a tax advisor to shield me from the IRS bs.

Acknowledgement 5: For the n-th time, this is really not a "women" problem. Daisy Ridley was on the Last Jedi. Did she receive hate from trolls? I mean, aside from the standard portion everyone famous is getting?

People are obsessed with star wars. For many people it's their Bible. Ever tried to misinterpret or mistranslate another person's personal belief/religion? See how fast they go apeshit. For the people who hold Star Wars as a religion, the Last Jedi was a sacrilege. For them, everyone involved was a heretic. Unfortunately for Kelly Marie Tran, she was the new kid on the block and - I suspect - was associated more than the others with TLJ failure. I could see a snail logic going like this: "Rey,Finn,Poe and Kylo Ren were also in TFA and that movie was passable. Then Rose joins the cast and TLJ is a failure". Just a couple of nonsensical logic jumps and it's pretty easy to target Rose as the reason TLJ failed.

That the directors only gave her a character which only serves to force a stupid plot twice did not help either.

Rose Tico is a symptom, not the root cause. Kelly Tran shouldn't be taking the flak that Rian Johnson deserves for her pointless Canto Bight shaggy-dog story. The problem with TLJ (and to a lesser extent TFA) isn't with the acting. The movies had a fantastic cast of talented and enthusiastic actors. The problem is that the TLJ was poorly conceived, executed and most of all, directed.

I think Rian Johnson let the actors down, including Kelly Tran and Mark Hamill most of all.

its kind of gakky but I'll wager she'll be back as celebs gotta shill

I'm pretty certain Daisy Ridley deleted her instagram account after TFA.

And no we do not need to hand all our private info to social media to combat internet trolls. Good moderation will go a long way.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Rose Tico is a symptom, not the root cause. Kelly Tran shouldn't be taking the flak that Rian Johnson deserves for her pointless Canto Bight shaggy-dog story. The problem with TLJ (and to a lesser extent TFA) isn't with the acting. The movies had a fantastic cast of talented and enthusiastic actors. The problem is that the TLJ was poorly conceived, executed and most of all, directed.

I think Rian Johnson let the actors down, including Kelly Tran and Mark Hamill most of all.

True. however directors are invisible. Actors are in the spotlight. Very easy to avoid hate if you are behind the curtains and you have an actor with a huge internetical bullzeye on the forehead.

I sympathize with the girl. First big role in Hollywood can build or destroy careers in an instant. I hope she has the metal to rise above this situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Earth127 wrote:
I'm pretty certain Daisy Ridley deleted her instagram account after TFA.

And no we do not need to hand all our private info to social media to combat internet trolls. Good moderation will go a long way.

Your good moderation will get DDOSed out of existence. I will repeat this: The internet trolls have no life. Literally. They have 24 hours per day in their disposal to keep throwing gak. They don't socialize. They don't sleep. I suspect they don't even eat, they are sustained by the meltdowns they cause. Pretty sure they hand craft medals and pin them on their chest for "how many people's online lives did I destroy this month". You will need to hire 3 moderators for every troll, and then I'm not sure there are enough people to hire in the social media field. If you write scripts to auto-ban trolls, they will just DDOS your platform until your ad revenue goes to zero and your customers flee to other providers.

EDIT: Something more: Every single piece of threat or insult should be removed and banned. Every piece of criticism, however harsh, should be 100% allowed to be posted, quoted and re-used. Being crushed by hate messages should not mean that Kelly Tran should be immune to criticism.

I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

That's what happens when we give kids internet connection and a mask to hide behind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

Oh dear, I broke the swear filter again. I seem to have a facility for inventing new scatalogical terminology.

Well from the main characters, only Kylo Ren is a white male, and be assured he got a huge pile of gak himself. In fact he was the only SW character ever to become a meme.

I know you want it to, but this is not a gender issue.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

That's what happens when we give kids internet connection and a mask to hide behind.

Exactly and these people likely wouldn’t even consider themselves racist for such actions and try to pass it off as “trolling”

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian.

Easiest way to get a reaction really.

I mean, the idea of a troll who says things just to get a reaction out of people has long since stopped being a profession. It's not an artform.

And people still fall for it...