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Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/mars-nasa-announcement-latest-organic-matter-red-planet-a8388591.html


Nasa's Curiosity rover has found organic matter preserved on Mars, in a discovery that could suggest it was once home to life.

The molecules represent an intriguing suggestion that Mars has been far more alive than we ever knew. While the discovery does not shed light on whether Mars was once home to alien life, and whether it could still be, the findings could be the result of ancient life there.

"The chances of being able to find signs of ancient life with future missions, if life ever was present, just went up," said Curiosity's project scientist, Ashwin Vasavada of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California

Experts say that the findings should propel us to look for conclusive evidence of alien life living on the planet.

“With these new findings, Mars is telling us to stay the course and keep searching for evidence of life,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters, in Washington. “I’m confident that our ongoing and planned missions will unlock even more breathtaking discoveries on the Red Planet.”

The new announcement is actually the result of two new studies reveal vast new detail about how methane exists on the planet, as well as the unexpected organic molecules that are preserved in its soil.

And one team has made a significant breakthrough in our attempt to understand the ancient organic matter on Mars, which could help us understand whether the world was once habitable and what happened to it in the billions of years since.
The two studies appear in the journal Science . In a companion article, an outside expert describes the findings as "breakthroughs in astrobiology."

"The question of whether life might have originated or existed on Mars is a lot more opportune now that we know that organic molecules were present on its surface at the time," wrote Utrecht University astrobiologist Inge Loes ten Kate of the Netherlands.

Kirsten Siebach, a Rice University geologist who also was not involved in the studies, is equally excited. She said the discoveries break down some of the strongest arguments put forward by life-on-Mars skeptics, herself included.

"The big takeaway is that we can find evidence. We can find organic matter preserved in mudstones that are more than 3 billion years old," Siebach said. "And we see releases of gas today that could be related to life in the subsurface or at the very least are probably related to warm water or environments where Earth life would be happy living."

The methane observations provide "one of the most compelling" cases for present-day life, she said.

Scientists have long been baffled by the discovery of significant amounts of methane on Mars. On Earth, most methane is produced by biological sources, leading to hopes that it could suggest the Red Planet is more alive than we'd thought.

The new data suggests that the methane is being stored underneath the surface of the planet. Seasonal changes appear to bring that methane out and onto the surface, where it has been detected by Curiosity, they suggest.

Another piece of research published simultaneously shows that intriguing organic molecules have been found in ancient rock on Mars. Curiosity took new samples and heated them so that it could analyse the molecules that were released – and the data showed that there is certain matter that is similar to the kind of organic-rich rock found on Earth.





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I wonder if we can convince Trump to open peace talks with the martians?

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Any more details on the organic matter? I’m trying to conceptualize in my mind what that exactly is, and I’m an idiot.

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 Nostromodamus wrote:
Any more details on the organic matter? I’m trying to conceptualize in my mind what that exactly is, and I’m an idiot.

Molecules. A group of atoms bound together by a chemical connection. So yeah, not even close to being martians, but organic nonetheless. Pretty exciting, because this is yet another hint that life may once have existed on Mars. For there to be life, there'd need to be organic molecules, since molecules are the building blocks of most organic matter (most inorganic matter is not made up of molecules).
To be more precise, I believe what they have found are tiophenic, aromatic and aliphatic compounds. I believe I also heard something about sulfur, but I haven't read or asked enough to know exactly what it is.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 23:43:53


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

The term "organic chemicals" is extremely misleading. It refers to any molecules that consist of carbon and hydrogen and possibly other elements. Things like methane, propane, etc. are considered to be "organic compounds". Yet these are found naturally occurring with no indication of life present. I hate when they use that term, because people hear the word organic and immediately assume that means life, when it in fact does not necessarily.

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The replenishing methane on Mars is what I'm curious about. Given how methane breaks down, this new finding is evidence that something is actively producing methane on Mars.

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Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Any more details on the organic matter? I’m trying to conceptualize in my mind what that exactly is, and I’m an idiot.


... it is of course just part of the cover up.

Spoiler:







The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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I can't wait till they actually find life off of earth. We all know it's there it will just be so satisfying.

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I'm looking forward to it, too, but we actually don't know (in the scientific sense, or really anything beyond an educated guess) yet. That's the point of these missions, to find out

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/08 14:56:39


 
   
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IF they find life and IF it isn’t related to life on Earth (which is still a distinct possibility, given the transfer of material between Earth and Mars during planetary formation), then it has astounding implications. A lot of the uncertainty over the potential extent of extraterrestrial life is around how easy it is to start, as all evidence from Earth’s history is that once it’s got going, life is a tenacious son of a bitch. If we’re two for two on places that could start life having life, then there’s probably life everywhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unfortunately, probably also going to put a nail in any manned mission to Mars; we simply couldn’t avoid cross contamination.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/08 18:13:13


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Pretty interesting stuff! It's probably only going to be a couple more years before a massive alien centipede tunnels out of the Martian soil and gobbles up one of our rovers now

At the same time we had better hope there is no life on Mars, as Jadenim pointed out, it could stop our plans for a colony on Mars and as that is the only other planet that would be decent for humans to live on in the solar system it could damage our chances of getting out into space. Then there is also the issue of the Great Filter which this video sums up pretty well but essentially boils down to the idea that the more common life is in the universe, the higher chance there will be that humanity is going to destroy itself at some point. Fun thoughts!



   
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Mars maybe the only vaguely habitable planet, but some of the moons have distinct potential for colonies. Europa and Callisto have thick ice crusts, giving you lots of water and shielding from radiation (and boy do you need that round Jupiter), plus geothermal power. However, may also turn out to have life, so possibly out of bounds too. My personal favourite is Titan; unlikely to have life (too damn cold), but has a nitrogen atmosphere that’s actually higher pressure than Earth, a surface made up of water ice and covered in liquid hydrocarbons and complex organic chemicals. Bring along a couple of nuclear reactors and you have everything you need to support a colony. Oh and the gravity is low enough that humans can fly unaided in the atmosphere!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/09 02:57:52


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 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
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 Jadenim wrote:
Mars maybe the only vaguely habitable planet, but some of the moons have distinct potential for colonies. Europa and Callisto have thick ice crusts, giving you lots of water and shielding from radiation (and boy do you need that round Jupiter), plus geothermal power. However, may also turn out to have life, so possibly out of bounds too. My personal favourite is Titan; unlikely to have life (too damn cold), but has a nitrogen atmosphere that’s actually higher pressure than Earth, a surface made up of water ice and covered in liquid hydrocarbons and complex organic chemicals. Bring along a couple of nuclear reactors and you have everything you need to support a colony. Oh and the gravity is low enough that humans can fly unaided in the atmosphere!

Probably the biggest problem with Jupiter though is that is like really far away. Way too far away to be thinking about any manned missions anywhere in the near or not-so-near future.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
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 Jadenim wrote:
However, may also turn out to have life, so possibly out of bounds too.


Only assuming that everybody who is exploring and colonizing the solar system actually cares about preserving a few "alien" microbes due to a "Prime Directive" of some kind.

Reality will be a lot more pragmatic. Best case you might have a "Martian Preserve" where the native bacteria can... be alone? while the rest of the planet gets colonized. The idea of quarantining a planet just because some bacteria are in a tiny little corner is absurd, unless there is a safety reason to be doing that.

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 Grey Templar wrote:
Reality will be a lot more pragmatic.


In which case colonization will never happen and contamination is not a concern.

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Monticello, IN

Just because we can't travel there by next Tuesday doesn't mean we won't get there by 2040 or maybe sooner. No need to rule out colonization just yet.

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 Grey Templar wrote:
 Jadenim wrote:
However, may also turn out to have life, so possibly out of bounds too.


Only assuming that everybody who is exploring and colonizing the solar system actually cares about preserving a few "alien" microbes due to a "Prime Directive" of some kind.

Reality will be a lot more pragmatic. Best case you might have a "Martian Preserve" where the native bacteria can... be alone? while the rest of the planet gets colonized. The idea of quarantining a planet just because some bacteria are in a tiny little corner is absurd, unless there is a safety reason to be doing that.


The worry is not to preserve a few bacteria on Mars, its the worry of them getting back here, where they could potentially wreak havok in ecosystems.



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Well we've pretty much always known that the first colonists are on a one-way trip, just pack a bit of Lysol for whatever doesn't fit into our petri dishes and call it a day.

Colonizing space is our future, so we need to find a proper way to get rid of germs for the people who have to return to Earth.

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 feeder wrote:
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 AegisGrimm wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 Jadenim wrote:
However, may also turn out to have life, so possibly out of bounds too.


Only assuming that everybody who is exploring and colonizing the solar system actually cares about preserving a few "alien" microbes due to a "Prime Directive" of some kind.

Reality will be a lot more pragmatic. Best case you might have a "Martian Preserve" where the native bacteria can... be alone? while the rest of the planet gets colonized. The idea of quarantining a planet just because some bacteria are in a tiny little corner is absurd, unless there is a safety reason to be doing that.


The worry is not to preserve a few bacteria on Mars, its the worry of them getting back here, where they could potentially wreak havok in ecosystems.


The worry goes both ways; there is a very real possibility that Terran bacteria could destroy the Martian ecosystem (if it exists). We do not have that right.

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 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Jadenim wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 Jadenim wrote:
However, may also turn out to have life, so possibly out of bounds too.


Only assuming that everybody who is exploring and colonizing the solar system actually cares about preserving a few "alien" microbes due to a "Prime Directive" of some kind.

Reality will be a lot more pragmatic. Best case you might have a "Martian Preserve" where the native bacteria can... be alone? while the rest of the planet gets colonized. The idea of quarantining a planet just because some bacteria are in a tiny little corner is absurd, unless there is a safety reason to be doing that.


The worry is not to preserve a few bacteria on Mars, its the worry of them getting back here, where they could potentially wreak havok in ecosystems.


The worry goes both ways; there is a very real possibility that Terran bacteria could destroy the Martian ecosystem (if it exists). We do not have that right.

Why not?
We are destroying ecosystems on Earth daily, and have done so for thousands of years. If an ecosystem on Mars exists, it will be extremely minimal. Just bacteria and other microscopic lifeforms. Why should we impede our progress for that?

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
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That's why they call it TERRAforming, son. We terrorestrials make your planet like our own.

If the Martians don't like it well.... they had their shot.

Spoiler:


Seriously though, we need to become a multiplanetary species before some disaster snuffs out life on our dirtball.

Like another species colonizing us, or an interstellar plague.

We can't allow microorganisms to stand in our way, anymore than we ever have let any living thing stand in the way of our expansion.

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 Just Tony wrote:
Just because we can't travel there by next Tuesday doesn't mean we won't get there by 2040 or maybe sooner. No need to rule out colonization just yet.


There's plenty of reason to rule out colonization, it's an utterly pointless thing to do. Mars has no resources that would justify having to get them out of the gravity well, and if you can produce habitable land on mars then you can do it on earth without all the problems of interplanetary travel. The only reason to do anything on mars, aside from nationalistic flag-planting, is science missions and those are done better by robots in virtually all cases.

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 Commander Cain wrote:
Pretty interesting stuff! It's probably only going to be a couple more years before a massive alien centipede tunnels out of the Martian soil and gobbles up one of our rovers now

At the same time we had better hope there is no life on Mars, as Jadenim pointed out, it could stop our plans for a colony on Mars and as that is the only other planet that would be decent for humans to live on in the solar system it could damage our chances of getting out into space. Then there is also the issue of the Great Filter which this video sums up pretty well but essentially boils down to the idea that the more common life is in the universe, the higher chance there will be that humanity is going to destroy itself at some point. Fun thoughts!




Yeah, from the point of view of the Fermi Paradox, finding signs of life next door would be absolutely devastating for our long-term outlook...
   
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 Gitzbitah wrote:
Like another species colonizing us, or an interstellar plague.


Aside from being pure fiction what would colonizing mars do to help with this? A hostile species showing up to kill or enslave us isn't going to stop just because we're on two planets instead of one. Not that they're likely to show up anyway, because the cost of interstellar travel is much greater than any conceivable reward.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Ephrata, PA

 Peregrine wrote:


Aside from being pure fiction what would colonizing mars do to help with this? A hostile species showing up to kill or enslave us isn't going to stop just because we're on two planets instead of one. Not that they're likely to show up anyway, because the cost of interstellar travel is much greater than any conceivable reward.


By who's count? 500 years ago we were afraid to sail straight west, for fear of falling off the edge of the earth, or dying in the vast nothingness of the ocean. Will colonizing Mars pay off in terms of what we gain in materials? Absolutely not. But its the first step to the wider universe. What we will gain in knowledge of colonizing another world will pay off as we reach further out. There are other earth-like planets out there, and there could just as easily be new minerals and resources to discover, which could further fuel our ability to traverse the stars.

Gotta look past Mars, man.

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 feeder wrote:
Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.

 
   
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Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Has nobody learned the lesson from "The War of the Worlds"? The smallest things can really ruin your day.

Once we mess about with the atmosphere, it'll either get killed off, of do the same to us.

Anyway, we need a good Space Race to get the worldwide economy going properly again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 14:24:43


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