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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




USA

Here is some of the last batch of topics me and my 40K buddies argued over. Please cite a source of some kind if you reply if you want to be extra-helpful. I know you guys probbaly went over all this stuff before, and I did a quick (not more than 5m search) of the forum to find the answers, but I am being a bum and just compiling all my questions on one page to save me time later on when I try and explain this stuff to my gaming buddies (as opposed to bookmarking multiple pages after a thorough search). Hopefully, no one will be offended.

UNITS, GENERAL

1.) Unit Coherency #1 - RAW all models must remain within 2" of another model of it's unit.

One of my pals said this is actually 3", not 2". So is it RAW or is there a FAQ or Chapter Approved change I could not find via web search?


2.) Unit Coherency #2 - RAW if a unit is somehow rendered incoherent (like a poorly written ruleset) then it must 're-establish' it's unit coherency the next time it moves.

Does this mean that the "split-up" unit could choose to just 'not move' and remain incoherent without penalty?


3.) Unit Coherency #3 - RAW there is nothing that implies that a 'split-up' unit is anything other than just in a state of being in violation of the "unit coherency rule", and aside from the admonition to re-establish coherency the next time you move, there are no other ill-effects. So, say, you have a unit of 30 models spread out in a 'skirmish line' 60" across and you took 10 losses from the center of your line, disrupting your unit coherency and leaving a 20"-ish gap in the unit through which poured a horde of enemy models. Later on, off to one side a friendly HQ with an ability targeting a friendly unit within 6" uses that ability targeting the split-up unit.

Does this mean that abilities that affect an entire unit still affect all the models of a split up unit?


4.) Unit Coherency #4 - RAW a unit that is 'split-up' **must** re-establish coherency the next time it moves.

So, you have 20" between the two closest models in your split-up skirmish line, and a move characteristic of 5", which means, even if you try to Advance, you simply cannot re-establish coherency.

Does this mean that a unit that **cannot** re-establish coherency in a single Movement Phase is simply unable to move at all, or can you move anyway as long as you are clearly **trying** to re-establish unit coherency?


5.) Unit Coherency #5 - RAW a unit that is 'split-up' **must** re-establish coherency the next time it moves.

If a split-up unit attempts to Advance/Fall Back, but would be unable to re-establish coherency at the end of the optional movement, can they still make those moves?


6.) Unit Coherency #6 - RAW there is nothing specific regarding split-up units and Charging; however, the rules clearly divided the Movement Rules and the Charging Rules into two separate phases.

So how does being 'split-up' affect the **charge move** (i.e. can you make a charge move at all with part of your split-up unit even if you are unable to re-establish coherency after charging, or when you charge are your required to attempt to re-establish coherency during the charge)?


7.) Unit Coherency #7 - RAW there is nothing specific regarding a split up unit and losses. RAW Wounds are allocated to 'units', with no mention of coherency, and RAW specifically state that the 'chosen model' does not have to be in range or in LOS of the attacking model. This question posed for clarity, as I believe the rules are pretty clear on this.

Back to the extreme example of having a split-up unit that cannot re-establish coherency in a single move; it is in the Fight Phase and the split up unit takes 2 Wounds.

Can the controlling player assign those Wounds to models 30" away from the enemy models that inflicted the Wounds?

Okay, so 7 questions down and we just made it past the second paragraph of the Core Rules. Yay. If anyone knows any additional rules regarding unit coherency please feel free to let me know


MOVEMENT RELATED

8.) Fall Back #1- RAW doesn't specifically say you can't move through enemy models (course, as I argued, neither does the Charge or Pile In rules, as logic indicates that was already covered under the general Movement rules, but whatever).

So, is there a clarification that specifically says when you Fall Back, and you are surrounded on all sides, that you can/cannot Fall Back by moving **through** enemy models (presuming the surrounded model has no special ability that allows for such)


9.) Fall Back #2 - RAW the only movement-related apparent restriction when Falling Back is that the unit must end it's move at least 1" from an enemy model.

Does this mean that , assuming two models are base-to-base the model that chooses to Fall Back could **slide around the enemy model's base, still in contact** in order to completely go around the enemy model and walk right past it as long as it ended that move further than 1" away from any enemy models?


10.) Charging #1 - RAW units get to fire OW **after** the charge is declared and **before** the 2d6 roll is made to determine charge distance. This seems to mean that a unit might get fired at, for free, even if it fails to successfully charge.

Does this work as intended?


11.) Charging #2 - RAW the only requirements for a moving unit during a charge is that A.) The first model moved must end it's charge move within 1" of the enemy unit targeted with the charge, and B.) no model within the charging unit can end their move within 1" of an enemy model not targeted with the charge.

In fact, aside from the first model you moved, all the others seem to able to go in whatever direction they choose.

Does this mean that, as long as 'unit coherency' is maintained, only the first model needs to move within 1" of the target, and the other models can go about their merry business (not even trying to get in CC range) however they please (which, assuming someone is using a 'skirmish line' can be quite a lot).


12.) Pile In - RAW a unit may 'pile-in' up to 3", in any direction, as long as it ends it's move closer to the nearest enemy model.

What happens if a unit is already based to an enemy model - can it still move via 'pivoting' or 'sliding' around the base of the enemy model it is in contact with?


Bah. There are ALOT more issues we were having, but these are the ones that were most recent. It is getting late, and I was researching on the side while asking these questions. I just need something better than reddit when my group.

It is getting really late. Night.

If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

1. Its 2" horizontally, and 6" vertically. Core rules movement phase.
2. A unit that is not in coherency must reestablish coherency next time it moves. This doesnt have to be in the movement phase. Pile in and consolidate is also movement.

From the designers commentary

Q: What happens if a unit that has become
split up during battle cannot re-establish
unit coherency the next time it moves?
A: In this case the unit cannot move.

Note that the rules concerning unit coherency
apply any time that a unit is moved, including
charging, piling in, consolidating, etc. Again,
if a unit cannot end such a move in unit
coherency, it cannot make the move.


3. A unit that cannot reestablish coherency next time it moves, cannot move.
4. A unit that cannot reestablish coherency next time it moves, cannot move.
5. A unit that cannot reestablish coherency next time it moves, cannot move.
6. A unit that cannot reestablish coherency next time it moves, cannot move.
7. Yes.
8. Stepping into a new edition of 40k says this :


Q: Can units move within 1" of enemy models whilst
Falling Back?
A: Yes, but they must end their move more than 1" from
all enemy models.

Remember though that they cannot move ‘through’ other models.


Units with FLY, or similiar abilities, can ignore enemy models when moving.

9. Yes you can get in base contact with enemy models when falling back, but you have to end your movement more than 1" away from them.
10. Yes, if you fail your charge roll you have to take the overwatch shots.
11. Yes, but the unit must stay in coherency.
12. If you are in base contact you cannot pile in anymore, you cant get any closer than base contact.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






10. You always fire overwatch before you roll to see the distance. This means overwatch always happens, even if you fail the charge.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Wow, this is alot of stuff, so I'm probably going to get beaten to the punch on this by someone faster at typing...
 DJHollisterr wrote:
1.) Unit Coherency #1 - RAW all models must remain within 2" of another model of it's unit.

One of my pals said this is actually 3", not 2". So is it RAW or is there a FAQ or Chapter Approved change I could not find via web search?
Coherency is 2". All the FAQ's are here. Coherency is only mentioned once in the main Rulebook FAQ, and it's nothing to do with changing it.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
2.) Unit Coherency #2 - RAW if a unit is somehow rendered incoherent (like a poorly written ruleset) then it must 're-establish' it's unit coherency the next time it moves.

Does this mean that the "split-up" unit could choose to just 'not move' and remain incoherent without penalty?
Yes, you are not forced to move.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
3.) Unit Coherency #3 - RAW there is nothing that implies that a 'split-up' unit is anything other than just in a state of being in violation of the "unit coherency rule", and aside from the admonition to re-establish coherency the next time you move, there are no other ill-effects. So, say, you have a unit of 30 models spread out in a 'skirmish line' 60" across and you took 10 losses from the center of your line, disrupting your unit coherency and leaving a 20"-ish gap in the unit through which poured a horde of enemy models. Later on, off to one side a friendly HQ with an ability targeting a friendly unit within 6" uses that ability targeting the split-up unit.

Does this mean that abilities that affect an entire unit still affect all the models of a split up unit?
The split unit is still "one unit", any ranges will be measured to the nearest model in the unit, psychic powers or buff / debuffs will affect the whole unit.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
4.) Unit Coherency #4 - RAW a unit that is 'split-up' **must** re-establish coherency the next time it moves.

So, you have 20" between the two closest models in your split-up skirmish line, and a move characteristic of 5", which means, even if you try to Advance, you simply cannot re-establish coherency.

Does this mean that a unit that **cannot** re-establish coherency in a single Movement Phase is simply unable to move at all, or can you move anyway as long as you are clearly **trying** to re-establish unit coherency?
Don't know, sorry.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
5.) Unit Coherency #5 - RAW a unit that is 'split-up' **must** re-establish coherency the next time it moves.

If a split-up unit attempts to Advance/Fall Back, but would be unable to re-establish coherency at the end of the optional movement, can they still make those moves?
Those moves are still "moves", advancing or falling back makes no difference to whatever the answer to (4) is.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
6.) Unit Coherency #6 - RAW there is nothing specific regarding split-up units and Charging; however, the rules clearly divided the Movement Rules and the Charging Rules into two separate phases.

So how does being 'split-up' affect the **charge move** (i.e. can you make a charge move at all with part of your split-up unit even if you are unable to re-establish coherency after charging, or when you charge are your required to attempt to re-establish coherency during the charge)?
A charge move is still a "move", and affected to the answer to (4).
 DJHollisterr wrote:
7.) Unit Coherency #7 - RAW there is nothing specific regarding a split up unit and losses. RAW Wounds are allocated to 'units', with no mention of coherency, and RAW specifically state that the 'chosen model' does not have to be in range or in LOS of the attacking model. This question posed for clarity, as I believe the rules are pretty clear on this.

Back to the extreme example of having a split-up unit that cannot re-establish coherency in a single move; it is in the Fight Phase and the split up unit takes 2 Wounds.

Can the controlling player assign those Wounds to models 30" away from the enemy models that inflicted the Wounds?
Absolutely.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
8.) Fall Back #1- RAW doesn't specifically say you can't move through enemy models (course, as I argued, neither does the Charge or Pile In rules, as logic indicates that was already covered under the general Movement rules, but whatever).

So, is there a clarification that specifically says when you Fall Back, and you are surrounded on all sides, that you can/cannot Fall Back by moving **through** enemy models (presuming the surrounded model has no special ability that allows for such)
p177 - Movement Phase - Moving - third sentence "It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls..."
 DJHollisterr wrote:
9.) Fall Back #2 - RAW the only movement-related apparent restriction when Falling Back is that the unit must end it's move at least 1" from an enemy model.

Does this mean that , assuming two models are base-to-base the model that chooses to Fall Back could **slide around the enemy model's base, still in contact** in order to completely go around the enemy model and walk right past it as long as it ended that move further than 1" away from any enemy models?
The falling back rules seem to imply you ignore the "may not be moved within 1" of any enemy models", otherwise it simply would not work, so assuming it ignores that restriction you can move as you suggest.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
10.) Charging #1 - RAW units get to fire OW **after** the charge is declared and **before** the 2d6 roll is made to determine charge distance. This seems to mean that a unit might get fired at, for free, even if it fails to successfully charge.

Does this work as intended?
This is exactly correct, and gives you a risk to simply declaring 11-12" charges without fear.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
11.) Charging #2 - RAW the only requirements for a moving unit during a charge is that A.) The first model moved must end it's charge move within 1" of the enemy unit targeted with the charge, and B.) no model within the charging unit can end their move within 1" of an enemy model not targeted with the charge.

In fact, aside from the first model you moved, all the others seem to able to go in whatever direction they choose.

Does this mean that, as long as 'unit coherency' is maintained, only the first model needs to move within 1" of the target, and the other models can go about their merry business (not even trying to get in CC range) however they please (which, assuming someone is using a 'skirmish line' can be quite a lot).
Yes. There is no rule that you need to "maximise contact", getting a single model within 1" counts as a successful charge, and the rest is just maintaining coherency.
 DJHollisterr wrote:
12.) Pile In - RAW a unit may 'pile-in' up to 3", in any direction, as long as it ends it's move closer to the nearest enemy model.

What happens if a unit is already based to an enemy model - can it still move via 'pivoting' or 'sliding' around the base of the enemy model it is in contact with?
A slightly contentious issue in some circles. If you're in b-2-b then you can't get closer, so instead you should have just left more room in the initial charge - i.e. 1" away, then you pile in so you're 1/2" away, then consolidate so you're 1/4" away, etc.

{Edit} p5freak has nailed it - I didn't check the Designer's Commentary {/Edit}

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/10 10:46:39


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




USA

Thank you all for the help.

Played about a dozen games of 40K so far, jury is still out. I do not understand why GW went with the Model --> Model --> Unit formula (models have to have range/LOS to a model in an enemy unit to fire, but are firing at the unit instead of the model, so weird stuff happens).

For example, in a 3-way game a unit of 30 Termagaunts strung out in a line was tarpitted by scarabs on the far right, and then fired at by space marines on the far left. The Nid player wisely, and legally, took all his losses from the SM attacks out of the Termmies within 1" of the Scarabs, thus freeing the Termies up.

Just weird.

Anyway, new list of questions.


13.) LOS #1 - Guy in my group insists his Scarabs block LOS; RAW it appears that if you can see it, you can shoot it. Given that scarabs are so small, I would say you are lucky if they can block LOS at all at any time.

So, if you have a unit of scarabs, specifically, strung out in a line in front of a unit of Immortals, and some smurfs in front of the scarabs want to shoot the immortals, can they do so (given that they can clearly see them)?


14.) LOS #2 - For the 50% cover rule - RAW the target model is 50% or more obscured by terrain, then it gets a +1 bonus to it's saves from cover. The rules for LOS say if you can see any part of the model you can shoot it.

So... if one of those SW guys with the top knots tries to hide behind a short wall, if the topknot pokes over the top you can shoot the fether (and maybe kill a model 10" away from the guy with the top-knot who was completely behind a ruin out of LOS)...

Is there any exceptions for models that just have wonky stuff extending over their base, like wraiths with tentacles flailing everywhere (incidentally making basing them a pain), or space wolves with their puppies extending past the base (I am sure other models will also have wings, antenna, or just really long gun barrels that stick out past the unit base as well)?

For clarity - if a model as a tinnie tiny antenna/tentacle/top-knot or whatever that just barely sticks out of the side of a ruin it is hiding behind, even if that tinnie tiny bit extends past the base of the model itself, it is still a legal target, correct?


15.) Unit Assembly - When building/assembling your models, players seem to have a great deal of leeway in what they can do. Which, if any, of the following are legal;

A.) A model of scarabs which only has 1 scarab model on it (instead of the (intended?) 3 scarab models you see in pics. Player wanted to maximize his number of overall independent models and so just put one scarab per base.

B.) A cantopek wraith with all the tentacles snipped off so the damn thing would stop tipping over/making base-to-base contact with another model's base impossible.

C.) A cantopek wraith chopped up and re-assembled so it appears to be coiled up like a snake very low to the ground, with no protruding tentacles, to minimize model profile.

D.) Aeldari Wraithlord with all the dumb super-protruding bits snipped off so it can hide better.


16.) Moving your models in place - I fought an opponent who had a unit of thunder cavalry, and one of the puppies extended about 1.5" over the edge of the base. It looked cool.

Anyway, he had an Iron Priest whose LOS was blocked by the damn puppy, and the LOS rules say friendly models in different units can block LOS. To avoid arguing as to whether he could see/shoot through the open jaws of the wolf, I just said I should get a cover bonus to my saves.

So... my opponent just rotated the puppy's model until it no longer blocked his LOS for his iron priest during his shooty phase, so my model was no long obscured and I guess I could no longer get a cover bonus to my save.

A.) Is it legal to rotate your models during the non-movement phase of the turn however you want?

B.) If it is, can you rotate your models in place during your opponent's turn?

17.) Reinforcement Points - RAW it **appears** that if you add a new unit to the board, that you did not pay points for on your list, then you need to have a pool of 'reinforcement points' to do so.

Good idea by GW - which they appear to have instantly broken by allowing necro's and nids to side-step through termagaunt spawning and re-animation protocols.

Like, I understand necro and nid's apparently get a free pass, and chaos does not (based off reading online stuff about Plague Blossoms and summoning), but what about things like the new Canis Rex which, upon death, spawns a new unit (it's pilot), or what if the Tervigon spawns a brand new unit of termagaunts?

So... how can I, as a player, tell when reinforcement points are required to pay for a new unit, and when they are not (short of having a tournie director or the latest in-depth FAQ handy? Is there a keyword to look for, or a specific wording, or what is going on?

Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, forgot this one. Probably most important.

18.) LOS Question - The same guy running the scarabs insists that you cannot shoot between his spaced-out scarab 'skirmish line', even though he has 1" - 2" between them.

I have found no rules for 'skirmish lines'.

Can you shoot between enemy models to hit targets behind them, or do models have some sort of 'invisible wall' extending between their models that I cannot find in the rules anywhere?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/13 04:12:07


If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





13.) Scarabs wouldnt block LOS to Immortals. I would dare say Immortals wouldnt block LOS to Scarabs either. There is no more intervening cover in 40k. It becomes even more ridiculous when hiding behind a building with windows gives you zero protection than just standing in the open.

14.) Yep, that top knot might as well be a huge billboard target sign.

15.) I myself have to modify alot of models for Transport purposes. I've filed off extra spikes and fiddly bitz, but modeling for a gaming advantage is still an unspoken No-No.

16.) Movement should only be done in the Movement Phase, and during a successful Charge. moving mid phase is not allowed without a special rule, like a Psychic Power or Stratagem that allows you to move any other time.

17.) Most of the new publications will tell you when to pay for a unit, and when not to. Of hand, I know the Thousand Sons codex specifies in the datasheet when to pay for spawn, while the Stratagem The Flesh Change specifies the spawn is free.

As a general rule, if it tells you to Add a unit, you're probably gonna have to pay for it.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

13.) LOS #1 - Guy in my group insists his Scarabs block LOS; RAW it appears that if you can see it, you can shoot it. Given that scarabs are so small, I would say you are lucky if they can block LOS at all at any time.

So, if you have a unit of scarabs, specifically, strung out in a line in front of a unit of Immortals, and some smurfs in front of the scarabs want to shoot the immortals, can they do so (given that they can clearly see them)?
Guy is wrong. LOS is blocked when LOS is literally blocked. Scarabs are so small it is nearly impossible for them to block LOS, barring assistance from terrain.

14.) LOS #2 - For the 50% cover rule - RAW the target model is 50% or more obscured by terrain, then it gets a +1 bonus to it's saves from cover. The rules for LOS say if you can see any part of the model you can shoot it.

So... if one of those SW guys with the top knots tries to hide behind a short wall, if the topknot pokes over the top you can shoot the fether (and maybe kill a model 10" away from the guy with the top-knot who was completely behind a ruin out of LOS)...

Is there any exceptions for models that just have wonky stuff extending over their base, like wraiths with tentacles flailing everywhere (incidentally making basing them a pain), or space wolves with their puppies extending past the base (I am sure other models will also have wings, antenna, or just really long gun barrels that stick out past the unit base as well)?

For clarity - if a model as a tinnie tiny antenna/tentacle/top-knot or whatever that just barely sticks out of the side of a ruin it is hiding behind, even if that tinnie tiny bit extends past the base of the model itself, it is still a legal target, correct?
For Cover, Models must be in Terrain that provides cover. Most non-Infantry models must also have 50% obstruction to gain benefits of cover.

Yes, technically LOS can be measured from any part of a model to any part of the other model. Players are allowed to decide that firing to and from antennas and flags is stupid and house rule such things as not counting, but the basic rule is any part of the model.

15.) Unit Assembly - When building/assembling your models, players seem to have a great deal of leeway in what they can do. Which, if any, of the following are legal;

A.) A model of scarabs which only has 1 scarab model on it (instead of the (intended?) 3 scarab models you see in pics. Player wanted to maximize his number of overall independent models and so just put one scarab per base.

B.) A cantopek wraith with all the tentacles snipped off so the damn thing would stop tipping over/making base-to-base contact with another model's base impossible.

C.) A cantopek wraith chopped up and re-assembled so it appears to be coiled up like a snake very low to the ground, with no protruding tentacles, to minimize model profile.

D.) Aeldari Wraithlord with all the dumb super-protruding bits snipped off so it can hide better.
These are all between, you, your opponent, and your event organizer (if you have one).

16.) Moving your models in place - I fought an opponent who had a unit of thunder cavalry, and one of the puppies extended about 1.5" over the edge of the base. It looked cool.

Anyway, he had an Iron Priest whose LOS was blocked by the damn puppy, and the LOS rules say friendly models in different units can block LOS. To avoid arguing as to whether he could see/shoot through the open jaws of the wolf, I just said I should get a cover bonus to my saves.

So... my opponent just rotated the puppy's model until it no longer blocked his LOS for his iron priest during his shooty phase, so my model was no long obscured and I guess I could no longer get a cover bonus to my save.

A.) Is it legal to rotate your models during the non-movement phase of the turn however you want?

B.) If it is, can you rotate your models in place during your opponent's turn?
You are not really supposed to be moving models outside of movement. There are no rules allowing it.

17.) Reinforcement Points - RAW it **appears** that if you add a new unit to the board, that you did not pay points for on your list, then you need to have a pool of 'reinforcement points' to do so.

Good idea by GW - which they appear to have instantly broken by allowing necro's and nids to side-step through termagaunt spawning and re-animation protocols.

Like, I understand necro and nid's apparently get a free pass, and chaos does not (based off reading online stuff about Plague Blossoms and summoning), but what about things like the new Canis Rex which, upon death, spawns a new unit (it's pilot), or what if the Tervigon spawns a brand new unit of termagaunts?

So... how can I, as a player, tell when reinforcement points are required to pay for a new unit, and when they are not (short of having a tournie director or the latest in-depth FAQ handy? Is there a keyword to look for, or a specific wording, or what is going on?
The new standard for Match Play seems to be quickly moving toward, restoring lost models to a unit or restoring a unit based on it's own rules does not require Reinforcement Points. Creating a new unit or adding models beyond the initial number of models in the unit cost Reinforcement Points.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





About clipping the tendrils on the Canoptek Wraith so that it can get into base to base contact - you don't have to have base to base contact in order to fight, you only have to be within 1" of the enemy model. For all of those situations, for tournaments it would be up to the tournament organizer. In general you could apply the "rule of cool" - does it look cool or is it purely something to try to model for advantage? Several editions ago I know of someone modifying an Alaitoc Wraithlord (long before the current edition) so that it was kneeling, and was holding its weapon (I think a bright lance) so that it looked like mecha version of a sniper with a sniper rifle. Some people could claim he was trying to model for advantage to let it get cover better (back when cover rules were different), but the model looked cool and people didn't have issues with it.

From a RAW standpoint with the scarabs it shouldn't matter if you have only one scarab on a base to indicate what it is. The rules wouldn't change for the model if it had 1,2 or 3 scarabs on the base. Most people have more on because it's supposed to be a swarm, which implies more than 1. If someone's trying to extend their scarabs to put on a lot more bases, though, I wouldn't hold it against them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/13 14:23:30


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website. If a player builds a model in a way that it helps him winning the game its called modelling for advantage, and i wouldnt play against that player.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 skchsan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.

It is impossible to give a rules citation, as nothing like that appears in the rules for 8th ed 40k.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 skchsan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.
It doesn't exist. p5freak is, as usual, giving incorrect information deliberately. The only requirement stipulated in the rules is that you must use Citadel Miniatures. The rules have no restrictions on how you model them, how you paint them, or even needing to use the "correct" model to represent a datasheet. You can use a Gretchin model to represent a Manta Super-Heavy Dropship for all the rules actually care.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 skchsan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.


In pirate accent,
It's more what you'd call, guidelines.

Or rather an implicit assumption. Best to stick to, to avoid silliness, but rather mutable.

DFTT 
   
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Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.
It doesn't exist. p5freak is, as usual, giving incorrect information deliberately. The only requirement stipulated in the rules is that you must use Citadel Miniatures. The rules have no restrictions on how you model them, how you paint them, or even needing to use the "correct" model to represent a datasheet. You can use a Gretchin model to represent a Manta Super-Heavy Dropship for all the rules actually care.


Go to a tournament and tell the TO your gretchin represents a gargantuan squiggoth. He will show you the door and ask you to leave.
   
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Kansas, United States

 p5freak wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.
It doesn't exist. p5freak is, as usual, giving incorrect information deliberately. The only requirement stipulated in the rules is that you must use Citadel Miniatures. The rules have no restrictions on how you model them, how you paint them, or even needing to use the "correct" model to represent a datasheet. You can use a Gretchin model to represent a Manta Super-Heavy Dropship for all the rules actually care.


Go to a tournament and tell the TO your gretchin represents a gargantuan squiggoth. He will show you the door and ask you to leave.


TO House Rules do not equal GW Core Rules.

Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A model is supposed to be build as shown on the package or on GW website.
We'll need a citation on this, please.
It doesn't exist. p5freak is, as usual, giving incorrect information deliberately. The only requirement stipulated in the rules is that you must use Citadel Miniatures. The rules have no restrictions on how you model them, how you paint them, or even needing to use the "correct" model to represent a datasheet. You can use a Gretchin model to represent a Manta Super-Heavy Dropship for all the rules actually care.


Go to a tournament and tell the TO your gretchin represents a gargantuan squiggoth. He will show you the door and ask you to leave.


Are these the current gretchin, or the older gretchin models that were much larger than they are nowadays? Would the T.O. allow old gretchin models to be used as grots now? Will they allow old Citadel Cybermen figures to be used as Necrons? (Might as well bring in the Citadel Dalek figures to be heavy destroyers.) From GW's standpoint they're legal models to use since they're Citadel miniatures.

Tournament organizers are free to rule on what they allow in their tournaments, and that goes beyond what we've been instructed by GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/13 18:32:02


 
   
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Thanks again for the clarifications. I think I got it.

Next question has to do with Reserves.

I do not understand how those rules work.

If you have a unit that has an ability on it's datasheet allowing it to be left off board, for whatever reason, do you have to roll a die to bring them on when their ability says they can come on, or is it automatic or what?

I have heard all of the following, or read it (late and I don't have the Core Rules handy so working off memory);

1.) That you cannot put more than half your Power Level in reserve/off board.

2.) A unit has to have a specific ability allowing it to be kept off-board.

3.) You have to roll a die (X+) to successfully bring an off-board unit into the game.

4.) The rules regarding Reserves apply to all Matched Play games, even if you are not running a scenario that innately allows/has Reserves.


Specific case is something like the Necron ability to spawn via the Monolith; if the Necron player opts to put some of his units off board and wants to bring them into the battle after deployment, during a standard 1v1 deathmatch how does he do so, and are the things I listed accurate to all games unless specifically stated otherwise?

If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
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 DJHollisterr wrote:
Thanks again for the clarifications. I think I got it.

Next question has to do with Reserves.

I do not understand how those rules work.

If you have a unit that has an ability on it's datasheet allowing it to be left off board, for whatever reason, do you have to roll a die to bring them on when their ability says they can come on, or is it automatic or what?

I have heard all of the following, or read it (late and I don't have the Core Rules handy so working off memory);

1.) That you cannot put more than half your Power Level in reserve/off board.

2.) A unit has to have a specific ability allowing it to be kept off-board.

3.) You have to roll a die (X+) to successfully bring an off-board unit into the game.

4.) The rules regarding Reserves apply to all Matched Play games, even if you are not running a scenario that innately allows/has Reserves.


Specific case is something like the Necron ability to spawn via the Monolith; if the Necron player opts to put some of his units off board and wants to bring them into the battle after deployment, during a standard 1v1 deathmatch how does he do so, and are the things I listed accurate to all games unless specifically stated otherwise?


1) Yes.
2) Yes, though sometimes people will use a stratagem or relic to gain that special rule for their unit.
3) No, it's automatic.
4) I believe so.

On turn 1, if a unit enters from reserves it must remain wholly within your deployment zone, on turns 2 and 3 they can arrive anywhere further than 9" away from an enemy unit, after turn 3 anything remaining in reserves is lost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 12:19:20


Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne! 
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

Reserves is scenario rule built for Narrative Scenerios and is on page 194 of the rulebook. It explains how to use the rule.

Units left off the board are only Reserves in scenarios with that rule.
   
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Ugh. New complicated question about Harlequins, Fog of Dreams, and Veil of Tears.

RAW
Fog of Dreams Warp Charge 7. Pick an enemy unit that is both within 18" and is visible to the Shadowseer, and it has to subtract 1 to hit for attacks, made against HARLEQUIN INFANTRY unit (note that this debuff only applies against Harlequins, so if you have Dark Eldar or Craftworlds in your force they will not benefit.) Useful to defang a powerful enemy unit in either shooting or assault, though it once again has a lower range than it might like. Best cast on a powerful close combat unit that you're about to charge or a threatening shooting unit like a Knight geared up to start shredding your clowns next turn. Combined with Shield From Harm and Holo-Fields this can make your units irritatingly hard to kill.

RAW
Veil of Tears Warp Charge 7. Pick an allied HARLEQUIN INFANTRY unit within 18". Attacks made against that unit get a -1 to their hit rolls. Simple yet effective, especially against things with plasma. Combine with Fog of Dreams to really feth with your opponent.

So here is what happened;

My opponent plays Harleys and bust out this combo after having his warlord shadowseer travel about 38" altogether in a single move on the first turn and using a vehicle & dismounting, (which allowed dismounting infantry to move/advance/charge after dismounting) and then based my Hive Tyrant.

Before basing using a charge move he psyched himself out with Veil of Tears and Fog of Dreams targeting the HT,

So he attacks me, inflicts a couple lucky wounds on the the HT.

I attack him, at -2 from the Psyche powers, but then he reminded me I was actually -3 because of his Lightning Reflexes strategum.

Anyway, whatevers, -3 it is. Rolled pretty lame, and 4 of my dice were 4's or less, but no 1's.

My opponent said he had Suit of Knives so all my rolls of 1's become Mortal Wounds, and because I was -3 to hit all the die rolls of 4 or less become 1's (as you cannot have a hit roll below 1) which meant i took another 4 mortal wounds.

Is this correct?

If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
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Edit: Soaring Spite WLT lets him disembark after the Transport moves.

He was correct in that you cannot modify a dice below 1 (per the Designers Commentary), so those rolls would have triggered Suit of Hidden Knives. The suit isn't automatic, you need to roll a D6 to see if the mortal wound occurs, as described on page 76 of Codex: Harlequins.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 21:33:38


 
   
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 BaconCatBug wrote:
Edit: Soaring Spite WLT lets him disembark after the Transport moves.

He was correct in that you cannot modify a dice below 1 (per the Designers Commentary), so those rolls would have triggered Suit of Hidden Knives. The suit isn't automatic, you need to roll a D6 to see if the mortal wound occurs, as described on page 76 of Codex: Harlequins.


Yeah, Soaring Spite was the vehicle he used. Sorry, I couldn't recall the name of it when i posted, but it specifically allowed him to disembark after it moved.

Okay, new related question;

So, evidently, the way shooting works is you roll to To Hit, and check for a successful hit **before** modifiers.

Tesla Carbine has the following ability: "Each hit roll of 6+ with this weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1."

So I am screwing around with Alaitoc space aelfs and shoot at one of their rangers and their Autarch from a range of 24", after advancing, and with **insert random strategum/power here that imposes a further -1 to hit modifier**. Normally I would need a 3+ to hit, but the Alaitoc ability hits me with a -1, and the Autarch compounds that with another -1. Random power/strategum makes that another -1, and advancing give me another -1 to hit (assuming BCB's sig doesn't count and assault weapons can, in fact, shoot); So, **-4** to hit, total.

I roll boxcars for my attack, so double 6's.

Because you check for hits **before** adding mods, the Tesla Carbine ability would activate, causing 3 hits a piece.

Then the mods apply and the 6's become 2's and I miss.

Question #1: So... what happens to the 4 extra 'hits'? Do they go away, or do I get 4 Wound rolls because 4 of the hits came from an ability and not a successful hit, or what happens here?

EDIT: What is with Ability Activation Timing & Modifiers to the Die Rolls anyway?

So... read an article from this guy http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/06/40k-re-rolls-modifiers-rules-breakdown.html which says modifiers are applied after To Hit Rolls are made.

Got in an argument over this with my roommate, and so we cracked open the CRB and....

It does not say. At least, we cannot find it. Is there a FAQ on this or what?

RAW Re-rolls says 'Some rules allow you to re-roll... and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied".

Shooting Phase Sequence
1. Choose Who
2. Choose What
3.) Choose Which
4.) Resolve Attacks
*Make Hit Roll
*Make Wound Roll
*Enemy Allocates Wounds
*Enemy Saves
*Inflict damage

RAW 4.) Resolve Attacks says.... ".... The following sequence is used to make attacks one at a time."

4.1) Hit Roll: "Each time a model makes an attack, roll a dice. If the roll is equal to or greater than the attacking model's BS characteristic, then it scores a hit... if not, the attack fails.... A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply,

Okay, so it looks like you roll To Hit, and at some point **after re-rolls are checked for because the Re-Rolls sidebar specifically says so** you apply modifiers.

But when to abilities activate - immediately when the condition is met, before modifiers, or after modifiers?

Like a Tesla Carbine; gets 3 hits if you roll a 6+; Overlord grants me a +1 To Hit bonus. I roll a natural '6'; so the ability activates(?), and then I apply the modifiers, making the roll a '7' which is also a 6+ (so it activates again???) - or does only the **final** number matter?

If only the Final number matters does this mean that if you advance and **then shoot with Tesla Carbines** that if you roll a '6' the ability procs(?), or the ability does **not** activate because after applying a -1 to your roll you now have a '5'?

Also, if only the final number matters, and you are +1 To Hit and you have a negative effect that activates on a DR of '1', then wouldn't your 1's become 2's and therefore the negative effect would not occur?

Also, do you only apply the modifiers **after checking for hits** if you have a situation where a re-roll may apply (and in all other situations where a re-roll does not apply you don't need to check for hits before applying modifiers???

This game seemed so much simpler a week ago. :(

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/15 00:18:56


If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
Made in us
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Tacoma, WA, USA

When making a roll, you check the "result" of the die roll without modifiers before making rerollls. Beyond that, you apply the modifier before determining the results.

So simple example that ties up all your questions:

Your Necron Immortal with Telsa Carbine (BS 3+) fires at Alatoc Dire Avenger that is 13" away (-1 to Hit due to Craftworld Trait) while under the effect of an ability that allows you to reroll misses to Hit (does this even exist?).
a) If you die is a 1 or 2 , you may reroll as you are allowed to reroll misses
b) If you roll a 3, you may not reroll. Before checking modifiers, a roll of 3 Hits so you may not reroll this die. However, you then apply the -1 To Hit, resulting in a 2 and a missed attack
c) If you roll a 4 or 5, you may not reroll, but you still Hit as -1 changes those results to a 3 or 4
d) If you roll a 6, you get 1 Hit. The -1 Hit Modifier changes your 6 to a 5, which means you do not get to convert 1 hit into 3 hits for rolling 6+


   
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Germany

Re-rolls before modifiers. If you fight alaitoc the -1 to hit will be canceled by +1 from WMBD. Your immortals hit on a roll of 3s and tesla triggers on a roll of 6s. If you can re-roll any misses to hit you can do that with 1s and 2s. If you can only re-roll 1s, then you cant re-roll 2s. If your immortals are permanently buffed with +1 BS you hit on a roll of 2 and you can only re-roll 1s. Tesla will still only trigger on a roll of 6.
There is a difference if you have BS2+ or +1 to hit. With BS2+ and -1 to hit you will hit on 3s, but tesla will never trigger because 6s will be modified to 5s. If you can re-roll any failed hit rolls you cant do that with 2s because after dice rolls its still a hit, but gets modified to 1 later. You can re-roll 1s, because these always miss. If you hit on BS3+ and you have +1 and -1 to hit you will hit on 3s, and tesla will trigger on 6s, because the +1 and -1 to cancel out.

Re-roll before modifiers is dumb and it complicates the game quite a lot But thats how GW wants it.
   
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 p5freak wrote:
Re-rolls before modifiers. If you fight alaitoc the -1 to hit will be canceled by +1 from WMBD. Your immortals hit on a roll of 3s and tesla triggers on a roll of 6s. If you can re-roll any misses to hit you can do that with 1s and 2s. If you can only re-roll 1s, then you cant re-roll 2s. If your immortals are permanently buffed with +1 BS you hit on a roll of 2 and you can only re-roll 1s. Tesla will still only trigger on a roll of 6.
There is a difference if you have BS2+ or +1 to hit. With BS2+ and -1 to hit you will hit on 3s, but tesla will never trigger because 6s will be modified to 5s. If you can re-roll any failed hit rolls you cant do that with 2s because after dice rolls its still a hit, but gets modified to 1 later. You can re-roll 1s, because these always miss. If you hit on BS3+ and you have +1 and -1 to hit you will hit on 3s, and tesla will trigger on 6s, because the +1 and -1 to cancel out.

Re-roll before modifiers is dumb and it complicates the game quite a lot But thats how GW wants it.


What if I roll a 5 with Tesla Carbines and I have a +1 bonus (from whatever) - Wouldn't I then proc the bonus hits from Tesla since that would change my DR to a 6+?

Just saying because the ability says 6+, nothing about a natural roll of 6 on the die. Which seems fair if the darned Harleys get to wear Suit of Knives and stack penalties to force opponents to proc their MW chance on rolls of 1 (after modifiers)...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:
When making a roll, you check the "result" of the die roll without modifiers before making rerollls. Beyond that, you apply the modifier before determining the results.

So simple example that ties up all your questions:

Your Necron Immortal with Telsa Carbine (BS 3+) fires at Alatoc Dire Avenger that is 13" away (-1 to Hit due to Craftworld Trait) while under the effect of an ability that allows you to reroll misses to Hit (does this even exist?).
a) If you die is a 1 or 2 , you may reroll as you are allowed to reroll misses
b) If you roll a 3, you may not reroll. Before checking modifiers, a roll of 3 Hits so you may not reroll this die. However, you then apply the -1 To Hit, resulting in a 2 and a missed attack
c) If you roll a 4 or 5, you may not reroll, but you still Hit as -1 changes those results to a 3 or 4
d) If you roll a 6, you get 1 Hit. The -1 Hit Modifier changes your 6 to a 5, which means you do not get to convert 1 hit into 3 hits for rolling 6+




Thanks! I finally get it. I think.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/15 07:50:03


If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
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Germany

 DJHollisterr wrote:

What if I roll a 5 with Tesla Carbines and I have a +1 bonus (from whatever) - Wouldn't I then proc the bonus hits from Tesla since that would change my DR to a 6+?


Yes. If you have +1 to hit tesla will trigger on rolls of 5s and 6s. And if have +2 (which is possible) tesla will trigger on 4s, 5s and 6s.
   
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Finally got the game down.

I have played with SM/SW/UM, GC, Nids, Necros, with a dash of Alefs. Looks like I will play GC/Nids from here on out.

Reason is I like the flexibility the GC gives you. Also, I finally won a game by just outplaying my opponent (and not just random luck) when I built a Spore-based Nid army for 1500pts and forced him to attack me at the far end of the map because I kept lobbing Spore Mines at him and he had nothing to lob back (was playing a theme-based Alef army that was heavy CC).

Speaking of which, my next question has to do with Spore Mines and the Meiotic Mines;

#1.) Metabolic Overdrive

For 1 CP that ability seems really powerful for the spores with 2W+ because they can really move (esp if you play Kraken, which I was).

RAW Use this Stratagem in your Movement Phase, after moving a Tyranids unit from your army. You can take a second move with that unit (including advancing if you wish) but when you do so you must roll a dice for each model in the unit. For each roll of 1, inflict a mortal wound on that unit. The unit cannot shoot or make a charge move this turn.

So.... I move a spore 3", advance for 6" (was playing Kraken and so go best of 3 dice), and used this stratagem to move/advance again.

1.) Do I move 9" with the second move (because I Advanced for 6" previously and thus increased my Move to 9"), and then add **another** +1d6" to **that** move with another successful advance?

2.) Regardless of the answer to #1 - does the Kraken Hive Ability activate for the second advance (allowing me to roll 3 dice and keep the highest as I already used that ability once for that model)?

I cannot find anywhere that it limits the Hive rules for advancing, just it says you can only benefit once from a re-roll (which the kraken ability doesn't do, it just lets you roll 3 and keep 1).

3.) Lastly; would this be correct to execute on the 1st Movement Phase if I had Meiotic Mines deployed;

A.) Move + Advance and spend 1 CP for Opportunistic Advance (which doubles the result from the Advance die that I keep) - lets say I roll a 4,5,6, pick the 6 and it doubles to 12 - which means my Move is 15"

B.) Use Metabolic Overdrive to Move/Advance a second time (and if I do so, would I benefit from Opportunistic Advance **again**)?

While kinda pricey (at 18pts each) this seems to be pretty brutal since I could hit something 30"+ away from my Meiotic Mines on turn one for a guaranteed attack of 0-9d6 MW, if I invested 162pts and 2 CP. And with 30" of movement or more you can go really far, and I would also get to deploy within 12" of wherever I wanted to start from. Anyway, just an idea I was toying with.

Sorry for all the silly questions guys, just trying to get all this stuff down.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/17 06:01:13


If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

 DJHollisterr wrote:

So.... I move a spore 3", advance for 6" (was playing Kraken and so go best of 3 dice), and used this stratagem to move/advance again.

1.) Do I move 9" with the second move (because I Advanced for 6" previously and thus increased my Move to 9"), and then add **another** +1d6" to **that** move with another successful advance?

When advancing multiple times in one phase, you only get to add the D6" (or 3d6" pick highest, in the case of Kraken) to your move stat once. Whatever number you rolled the first time is kept for the rest of the phase.
So if your first move was 3" + 6" = 9", then your second move will also be 9".

For reference, here's the relevant question from the tyranid FAQ:
Q: If a unit has Advanced in a phase, and is given the opportunity to move again in the same phase, what is their Move characteristic?
A: Their Move characteristic for the second move would still be the value as modified from the Advance. For example, if a unit with a Move characteristic of 5" Advances in a Movement phase, and the result of the dice rolled for the Advance is 4, its Move characteristic would be modified for that phase to 9". As such, if it was given the opportunity to move again in that phase, its Move characteristic would still be 9".


 DJHollisterr wrote:

2.) Regardless of the answer to #1 - does the Kraken Hive Ability activate for the second advance (allowing me to roll 3 dice and keep the highest as I already used that ability once for that model)?

I cannot find anywhere that it limits the Hive rules for advancing, just it says you can only benefit once from a re-roll (which the kraken ability doesn't do, it just lets you roll 3 and keep 1).

Answered by the response above, as you don't roll for the second advance.

 DJHollisterr wrote:

3.) Lastly; would this be correct to execute on the 1st Movement Phase if I had Meiotic Mines deployed;

A.) Move + Advance and spend 1 CP for Opportunistic Advance (which doubles the result from the Advance die that I keep) - lets say I roll a 4,5,6, pick the 6 and it doubles to 12 - which means my Move is 15"

B.) Use Metabolic Overdrive to Move/Advance a second time (and if I do so, would I benefit from Opportunistic Advance **again**)?

While kinda pricey (at 18pts each) this seems to be pretty brutal since I could hit something 30"+ away from my Meiotic Mines on turn one for a guaranteed attack of 0-9d6 MW, if I invested 162pts and 2 CP. And with 30" of movement or more you can go really far, and I would also get to deploy within 12" of wherever I wanted to start from. Anyway, just an idea I was toying with.

Sorry for all the silly questions guys, just trying to get all this stuff down.

You cannot use Opportunistic Advance on a unit with the FLY keyword. So the best move you are going to get is 18".

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/06/18 12:28:23


 
   
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For reference, here's the relevant question from the tyranid FAQ:
Q: If a unit has Advanced in a phase, and is given the opportunity to move again in the same phase, what is their Move characteristic?

A: Their Move characteristic for the second move would still be the value as modified from the Advance. For example, if a unit with a Move characteristic of 5" Advances in a Movement phase, and the result of the dice rolled for the Advance is 4, its Move characteristic would be modified for that phase to 9". As such, if it was given the opportunity to move again in that phase, its Move characteristic would still be 9".


I read that answer in the **rules** FAQ, but, unfortunately, that is a **rules FAQ**, and it did not specifically mention Metabolic Overdrive, and therefore may not apply to Stratagems as stratagems break the normal rules. For example, the rules say you cannot choose a unit that has already fought in the Fight Phase to fight again, but there are a plethora of stratagems that allow units to do so - so evidently stratagems 'break' rules.

RAW Metabolic Overdrive states; "Use this Stratagem in your Movement Phase, after moving a Tyranids unit from your army. You can make a second move (including Advancing, if you wish), but when you do so you must roll a dice for each model in the unit. For each roll of 1, inflict a mortal wound on the unit. The unit cannot shoot or make a charge move this turn."

It specifically mentions allowing Advancing after the second move.

So, if you errata/faq the rules to make it clear units cannot Advance twice in a turn, but do not errata the associated stratagem that allows that rule to be broken, then how do we know you are, in fact, limited to just one Advance per turn if you have a stratagem that allows you Move/Advance a second time in the phase)?


You cannot use Opportunistic Advance on a unit with the FLY keyword. So the best move you are going to get is 18".


OMG THEY CAN FLY!!! I have been treating them like ground units the entire time (going around terrain and enemy model!!!!) THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT!!!! +10000

FLYING BOMBS OF DEATH RUNNING PAST YO SUCKAHS TO KO YOUR WARLORD!!!!!!

If the odds of rolling three 1's when rolling 3 dice to make a 2+ Wound Roll is really 216:1 then how come it happens in every frakking game? 
   
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Auckland, NZ

Maybe I left a bit out. From that same FAQ:

Q: Can a unit ever Advance twice in a single phase?
A: No.
   
 
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