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Hi

Can a Solitaire Blitz (Move +2D6") AND advance (another D6") in the same move? Or does Blitz replacing "the normal move" also cut off the ability to advance? Double interesting, since the Starmist Raiment requires you to advance to be free from overwatch concerns.

Thanks.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Hi

Can a Solitaire Blitz (Move +2D6") AND advance (another D6") in the same move? Or does Blitz replacing "the normal move" also cut off the ability to advance? Double interesting, since the Starmist Raiment requires you to advance to be free from overwatch concerns.

Thanks.

They may not advance, because Blitz replaces the normal move. The only way you can advance is if you make a normal move. This means the Starmist Raiment doesn't apply on a turn the Solitaire uses its Blitz move.

"When you pick a unit to move in the
Movement phase, you can declare that
it will Advance,..."

Nowhere does it specify that you have to do a specific kind of movement. Just that you have to move.

"Once per battle, instead of making a normal
move with the Solitaire, you can make a Blitz move
with it. ... "

The Solitaire still moves. And nowhere does it say that you can't advance when doing a Blitz move. It doesn't change the "advance rule" in any way.

So you still can advance when doing a Blitz move. Effectively making a 12" + 3d6" move and being able to ignore overwatch from the Starmist Raiment.

Weidekuh wrote:
"When you pick a unit to move in the
Movement phase, you can declare that
it will Advance,..."

Nowhere does it specify that you have to do a specific kind of movement. Just that you have to move.

"Once per battle, instead of making a normal
move with the Solitaire, you can make a Blitz move
with it. ... "

The Solitaire still moves. And nowhere does it say that you can't advance when doing a Blitz move. It doesn't change the "advance rule" in any way.

So you still can advance when doing a Blitz move. Effectively making a 12" + 3d6" move and being able to ignore overwatch from the Starmist Raiment.

You just quoted the bit where it says “instead of making a normal move...” - that’s the bit that stops you moving/Advancing normally.

Nevermind. Checked the rule when I got home.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Weidekuh wrote:
"When you pick a unit to move in the
Movement phase, you can declare that
it will Advance,..."

Nowhere does it specify that you have to do a specific kind of movement. Just that you have to move.

"Once per battle, instead of making a normal
move with the Solitaire, you can make a Blitz move
with it. ... "

The Solitaire still moves. And nowhere does it say that you can't advance when doing a Blitz move. It doesn't change the "advance rule" in any way.

So you still can advance when doing a Blitz move. Effectively making a 12" + 3d6" move and being able to ignore overwatch from the Starmist Raiment.

You just quoted the bit where it says “instead of making a normal move...” - that’s the bit that stops you moving/Advancing normally.

No it doesn't. Because the rule to advance doesn't say you have to make a normal move. You just have to move. Blitz is a move. So you can advance.

Johnny - so it is a move still? If so, then you may advance. Advance doesn't require a "normal" move. If you disagree please show exactly where this is stated.

As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

But it doesn't say that you can only advance with a normal move. Normal move and advance have no connection. Only move and advance has. I understand what you mean and how you can come to your conclusion. The rule is badly worded. But it is clear.

Now it may change in a future errata, but until then you can advance when chosing a Blitz move.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

I don't think we want to be saying that Blitz uses rules other than the rules in the Movement section for moving. If it ignored those rules, it's questionable how it would move at all, as the "normal rules" for movement tell you how far it can move, how no part can move further than its move characteristic, or how you can't end you move within 1" of enemy models. If you ignore these "normal" rules... well... I'd hate to imagine the consequences. As such, I think the Blitz is a move that happens in the movement phase, so you can indeed advanced as part of your Blitz move.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

That isn't what was asked, however.
You need something saying you can only advance when moving normally.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

That isn't what was asked, however.
You need something saying you can only advance when moving normally.

The rules in the movement phase ARE moving normally. See what you made me do? You made me and JonnyHell agree with each other.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The rules in the movement phase ARE moving normally. See what you made me do? You made me and JonnyHell agree with each other.

As per my previous post, that reasoning would introduce some serious breakage of the game. If you ignore the "normal rules" for moving, then there's nothing saying that you can actually move up to your Move characteristic (so you can't move at all now), that no part of the model can end the move more than the model's move distance from its starting position (so, if you could move still, then you can place your model anywhere on the table), and there's nothing saying you couldn't end your move within 1" of enemy models (so, yes, that move can really be anywhere). In this case "Blitzing" would actually mean "increase your Move and Attacks characteristics for the turn, but stay exactly where you were". If my Index version of Blitz is accurate, it adds the 2d6 to your Move characterstic, which means you must still use the Movement rules for Moving during a Blitz, which means that you ARE using the Normal Movement rules, but they're now a "Blitz Movement rules", with the only difference being your increased Movement value. That would mean you COULD Advance still during a Blitz.

"Instead of a normal move" means you move 2d6 instead of your M characteristic (with the option to advance). It's actually clear.

I admit your argument has some merit because it doesn't seem to be breaking any logical rules. Chalk this one up for "GW needs to fix their rules again".

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

That isn't what was asked, however.
You need something saying you can only advance when moving normally.

The rules in the movement phase ARE moving normally. See what you made me do? You made me and JonnyHell agree with each other.

So where is the rule stating the only time you can advance Is when using the basic rule?
Citation please.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

That isn't what was asked, however.
You need something saying you can only advance when moving normally.

The rules in the movement phase ARE moving normally. See what you made me do? You made me and JonnyHell agree with each other.

So where is the rule stating the only time you can advance Is when using the basic rule?
Citation please.

That's not how the rules work. You need to show a rule saying you CAN advance with a non-standard move. "It doesn't say I can't" isn't an argument. I can just as easily ask "Where is the rule saying I can't re-roll all hits if I stroke a puppy."

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
As I read it, moving normally is the rules in the Movement section. This model can use a different option instead of those rules.

That isn't what was asked, however.
You need something saying you can only advance when moving normally.

The rules in the movement phase ARE moving normally. See what you made me do? You made me and JonnyHell agree with each other.

So where is the rule stating the only time you can advance Is when using the basic rule?
Citation please.

That's not how the rules work. You need to show a rule saying you CAN advance with a non-standard move. "It doesn't say I can't" isn't an argument. I can just as easily ask "Where is the rule saying I can't re-roll all hits if I stroke a puppy."

"When you pick a unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare that it will Advance,..."



"Once per battle, instead of making a normal move with the Solitaire, you can make a Blitz move with it. ... "

Both normal moves and Blitz moves are designated as moves. When you pick a unit to move (not specified as a normal move) you can declare that it will advance.

"Blitz move" is not the same as "move". You can't just ignore half a rule because you dislike the result.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Blitz move" is not the same as "move". You can't just ignore half a rule because you dislike the result.

Blitz move and a normal move are both moves. Advance can be used if you move. You can't just igrnore that both are moves because you dislike the result.

 doctortom wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Blitz move" is not the same as "move". You can't just ignore half a rule because you dislike the result.

Blitz move and a normal move are both moves. Advance can be used if you move. You can't just igrnore that both are moves because you dislike the result.

So by that logic a charge move is also a move and I can advance as part of it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Blitz move" is not the same as "move". You can't just ignore half a rule because you dislike the result.

Blitz move and a normal move are both moves. Advance can be used if you move. You can't just igrnore that both are moves because you dislike the result.

So by that logic a charge move is also a move and I can advance as part of it.

It is a move, but not one that happens in the movement phase, and as such, is not eligible for Advancing. "When you pick a unit to move in the movement phase" (emphasis mine).

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Blitz move" is not the same as "move". You can't just ignore half a rule because you dislike the result.

If a Blitz move isn't a move. Then a normal move isn't a move either. You can't pick one and not the other. There is only move in the movement phase mentioned in the core rules.

You can Blitz and Advance, Blitz and not Advance, Move and Advance, or Move and not Advance during the movement phase.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Blitz move" is not the same as "move". You can't just ignore half a rule because you dislike the result.

Blitz move and a normal move are both moves. Advance can be used if you move. You can't just igrnore that both are moves because you dislike the result.

So by that logic a charge move is also a move and I can advance as part of it.

If you're somehow charging during the movement phase, then yes.

Any other strawman arguments you care to throw up?

So basically the Solitaire moves 3d6 instead of 8+6d? It moves 8 right?

 Xenomancers wrote:
So basically the Solitaire moves 3d6 instead of 8+6d? It moves 8 right?

No, it normally moves 12 inches, but Blitz adds 2d6 to its Movement Characteristic. Along with Advance (which also adds 1d6 to your Movement Characteristic), you're looking at an allowable move between 15"-30".

Advancing is declared when the unit is SELECTED (picked).

After that point, it does what ever else i does, in ADDITION to advancing.

I suspect that if you could not advance and blitz it would mention that in the rule for blitz. I also suspect that if that was the case, blitz would replace advance instead of the normal move. Because it replaces the normal move, which is not required for advancing, and does not say that you cannot advance, there is nothing in the rules that prevents you from advancing with your guy and using its special move to replace its move with a faster one.

 Yarium wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
So basically the Solitaire moves 3d6 instead of 8+6d? It moves 8 right?

No, it normally moves 12 inches, but Blitz adds 2d6 to its Movement Characteristic. Along with Advance (which also adds 1d6 to your Movement Characteristic), you're looking at an allowable move between 15"-30".

Why didn't they state that you can advance 3d6 when you blizz - that would have been so much more clear. That is effectively what the rules are stating now.

I guess in case you don't want to advance for some reason, in which case you still get the 2d6.