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As in title. I'm starting based on some Gorkamorka classic red oldies, want to go yellow. Well even if not, does it matter?

Paint never matters in 40k.

Yea as BCB said it shouldn't make any difference unless you want to heavily stick to the fluff.

You'd effectively be transitioning from Evil Sunz to Bad Moonz but if the fluff colour scheme doesn't bother you I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

Just don't forget that the red ones go fasta.

Yey i can paint some boyz. Still waiting on Codex to decide a lot of models. Should be soon i hear.

EDIT: Oh, whats the best ez to get product to remove official paint?? Or just paint over it... It's 2 buggies painted 15 years ago red.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Paint never matters in 40k.

except that gw just made it a rule that they do

If you have painted your models in a specific way, we expect you to use the rules relevant to that scheme. For example, if you have painted your models as Salamanders, your army must have the Salamanders keyword. If you have created your own unique colour scheme, then you may give them any keyword that you wish.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-official-2018-2019-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

str1keOne wrote:
Yey i can paint some boyz. Still waiting on Codex to decide a lot of models. Should be soon i hear.

EDIT: Oh, whats the best ez to get product to remove official paint?? Or just paint over it... It's 2 buggies painted 15 years ago red.

The old method was to use something like Dettol or PineSol, but I could swear there is a better product nowadays, I just can't remember it. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Paint never matters in 40k.

except that gw just made it a rule that they do

If you have painted your models in a specific way, we expect you to use the rules relevant to that scheme. For example, if you have painted your models as Salamanders, your army must have the Salamanders keyword. If you have created your own unique colour scheme, then you may give them any keyword that you wish.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-official-2018-2019-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

No, they didn't. That is literally a tournament house rule. Did you even bother reading the URL? "warhammer-40000-grand-tournament"

 davou wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Paint never matters in 40k.

except that gw just made it a rule that they do

If you have painted your models in a specific way, we expect you to use the rules relevant to that scheme. For example, if you have painted your models as Salamanders, your army must have the Salamanders keyword. If you have created your own unique colour scheme, then you may give them any keyword that you wish.

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-official-2018-2019-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

Meanwhile, my custom chapter utilizes greens, lizards, scales, forges, fires; but happens to play with the Ravenguard keywords.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
No, they didn't. That is literally a tournament house rule. Did you even bother reading the URL? "warhammer-40000-grand-tournament"

You very deliberately left out the "games-workshop.com" part of that quote?

its not a house rule, its a tournament rule, coming from the official GW website. A house rule is what you and your mates do at home. What GW did carries quite a bit more weight, and while it may have no bearing on how you play at home, it certainly does away with the "Paint never matters" attitude that people have had in the past.

BaconCatBug wrote:
Paint never matters in 40k

Paint does matter, at least in this one official event. If you hadn't said never, you might be right, but as it stands you're demonstrably wrong.

Yeah I am as much of a fluff bunny as the next guy, but I see no problem with using rules from a faction you are not painted as. It's a game at its heart and I am not going to require you to go and buy a whole new army to use a different chapter tactic equivalent. That would just be silly. Salamanders using Ultramarine rules? Sounds great!

The only time I don't like it is when you are mixing and matching without distinguishing which is which.

Edit: Also as a rule of thumb you can get away with pretty much anything as Orks. It's an unwritten social code that everybody likes Orks and as such are more lenient with them.

I feel the same, I dont care what paintjob your army has as long as its actually painted. I'd prefer if I didnt have to memorize a million little faction rules as people start to min-max detachments for purposes of getting small bonuses, but I realize its part of the game now. Seems like GW does care thought, at least for events they run.

Second on the ork thing though. I've yet to see an ork player hated by anyone who'se even somewhat reasonable.

I'm at a crossroads myself with the Ork army painting. I had started each Mob a different Clan (to differentiate each unit) with a Warboss and trukk to match. I have red, blue, black, and yellow mobs.

And I think I'm gonna keep it going that way. If I'm gonna have to paint up 160 ork boyz, I want some variation.

thats a damn good plan; you'd be able to integrate second hand models very easilly that way too.

Orks are the best examples of why it doesn't matter at all! Unfortunately the majority of players are marines so they use their imperial perception on Ork lore without really going into it. For one thing, the Kult of Speed can exist in any Klan and in fact many orks wonder in and out of many Klans. So you can find yellow kult of speed badmoons who want to join the Evil Sunz. Or just want speed. Evil sunz are only seen as red because they paint vechiles red (as they think it makes them go faster) but honestly they can be any colour. In fact, only the Goff bans colours in their amry. Every other Ork army use as many colours as they want no matter the colour.

Plus, just because one ork belongs to a klan doesn't mean his offspring will belong to the same klan. So wouldn't be surprised if the evil sunz eventually have bad moonz forming who then still have the kult of speed gene in them.

All of these are just a few examples of whynit doesn't even matter with orks if you know your lore correctly. Don't get me started on Freebooters (who wear what the hell they want), orks changing klans or orks forming new klans out of old klans.

str1keOne wrote:
As in title. I'm starting based on some Gorkamorka classic red oldies, want to go yellow. Well even if not, does it matter?

Given the fact GW is kinda anal about paints (and BCB is wrong again, paint didn't matter only in 5th edition, from 6th to 8th you have seen clampdowns on people using 'wrong' colors multiple times) I'd suggest painting them pink. That way, when the codex finally drops, you can claim they are from Kustom Kult and you will be able to use any minifaction ruleset you want

 Irbis wrote:

str1keOne wrote:
As in title. I'm starting based on some Gorkamorka classic red oldies, want to go yellow. Well even if not, does it matter?

Given the fact GW is kinda anal about paints (and BCB is wrong again, paint didn't matter only in 5th edition, from 6th to 8th you have seen clampdowns on people using 'wrong' colors multiple times) I'd suggest painting them pink. That way, when the codex finally drops, you can claim they are from Kustom Kult and you will be able to use any minifaction ruleset you want

Show me in the rulebooks where I can't have Ultramarine painted models and run them with the Salamanders Keyword. I can show you where I can, in the <CHAPTER> rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

str1keOne wrote:
As in title. I'm starting based on some Gorkamorka classic red oldies, want to go yellow. Well even if not, does it matter?

Given the fact GW is kinda anal about paints (and BCB is wrong again, paint didn't matter only in 5th edition, from 6th to 8th you have seen clampdowns on people using 'wrong' colors multiple times) I'd suggest painting them pink. That way, when the codex finally drops, you can claim they are from Kustom Kult and you will be able to use any minifaction ruleset you want

Show me in the rulebooks where I can't have Ultramarine painted models and run them with the Salamanders Keyword. I can show you where I can, in the <CHAPTER> rules.

Dont be a pedant; the rules aren't limited to the rulebook now and haven't been for some time. The can be spread across magazines, can be found on Comunity blog posts, PDF's, and even come printed on cards in some boxes.

If you want to see the rule in question you just have to scroll up, I quoted it to you earlier and you chose to ignore it and cherry pick a quote back at me. It comes from the GW website, for a GW official event; It's an official rule, whether or not you want to keep shouting that its a house rule.

Let's not turn this thread about painting into a rules debate please.

My Orks are Evil Sunz but in my head canon they scavenge most of their metal from other races so they haven't had a chance to paint it all red yet. I also like my Orks' metal worn AF.

Similarly with the red that I use for their clothing material (of which there is little) in my head canon it's simply squig flesh fashioned into some sort of band or belt or whatever but either way my squigs must be exactly the same colour.

I do a fair bit of yellow and red checks and flames too. Love me some flames.

In terms of rules I'm just happy to play against a fully painted army. I don't care what sub faction you pick as long as your stuff is painted.

I will play Evil Sunz even if their rules are garbage because I'm a fluff bunny at heart.

Orks traditionally draw their warbands from multiple klanz/smaller warbands anyways; so if anything, mixing colors is more fluffy than just one color.

I think as a rule of thumb with Orks it is generally the case that a strong fluff argument needs to be made for why they can't do something and the default assumption should be that they can.

If in your local area people get all worked up over what color you paint your Orks you could mix boyz from all the different units together for a multitude of colors and say they are Freebootaz. (Of course if they come out with special rules for Freebootaz then that may change things).

Reading about Freebootaz sometimes they are Orks that forsake their Clan and fight for pure profit. In other versions they maintain their clan identity and are more focused on raiding than a Waaagh of conquest. I think both versions are accurate and not mutually exclusive.

The exact colour scheme(s) you choose won't matter but in 8th you will probably at some point be building army lists which combine different clan traits(whatever they'll be called) so in those situations it is better that you have models painted in such a way to differentiate.

You can always say your ultramarines painted army is today playing counts as salamanders. No one will care about that but if you say my ultramarines painted army is counts as salamanders/raven gurad across two detachments then thats a problem.

My Ghazghkull Thrakka model is painted in black cammo and has always been used as the Bloodaxe Warlod "Da Uld Boss" who has been leading is Waaagh! for a long time, keeping the warbosses and meks under him from killing each other with Bloodaxe cunnin and some friendly whacks in the head with his powerklaw.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that I can't run him in a Goff detachment as part of my army.

Honestly, mosy goff armies shouldn't even have pericings, trophies or any colour at all. So really if you wanted to go down that route almost every goff army in model form is actually unfluffy. But nobody cares and we should continue to care that nobody cares so people can have fun painting.

 lolman1c wrote:
Honestly, mosy goff armies shouldn't even have pericings, trophies or any colour at all. So really if you wanted to go down that route almost every goff army in model form is actually unfluffy. But nobody cares and we should continue to care that nobody cares so people can have fun painting.

Are you counting black and white as colors? (I ask because there are a few people out there that don't.)

As far back as 3rd Edition Goffs have been depicted as mostly using black paint but also with some white and red detail work (checks and dags, mostly). They also have frequently been depicted as having plenty of trophies in the form of horns, severed heads and the like.

I've read many times that they eschew body paint, garish* colors and ostentatious* decorations.
*By Ork standards

Are you going back to 2nd Edition? Goffs that period look pretty brightly colored with lots of decorations, but then again relative to the style of the Orks at the time they could be considered toned down.

We can;t be sure what the rules for Orks are going to be, their armies being a mix of clans is pretty well eistablished though so I'd not be suprised to see some rules for it. dark eldar are proof eneugh that GW'll develop uniqueish rules for a faction to reflect a unique make up

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Honestly, mosy goff armies shouldn't even have pericings, trophies or any colour at all. So really if you wanted to go down that route almost every goff army in model form is actually unfluffy. But nobody cares and we should continue to care that nobody cares so people can have fun painting.

Are you counting black and white as colors? (I ask because there are a few people out there that don't.)

As far back as 3rd Edition Goffs have been depicted as mostly using black paint but also with some white and red detail work (checks and dags, mostly). They also have frequently been depicted as having plenty of trophies in the form of horns, severed heads and the like.

I've read many times that they eschew body paint, garish* colors and ostentatious* decorations.
*By Ork standards

Are you going back to 2nd Edition? Goffs that period look pretty brightly colored with lots of decorations, but then again relative to the style of the Orks at the time they could be considered toned down.

Well balck is actually not a colour (scientifically it's no colour at all) and white is kinda all colours but what i meant was nothing but black or white. In the old lore all the orks were super colourful and fun even the so called strict boring goff. The goffs are basically the scary serious orks who just want to kill. They're the strenght while every other klan bring the personality. But yes, in modern lore the goffs ban all colour apart from black and ehite. They ban jewellery, trophies, ect... and seen as almost all ork models come with them then they're all breaking the fluff. Hence, we shouldn't care and just make and modelw hat we think looks cool and then do fluff stuff second.

str1keOne wrote:
Yey i can paint some boyz. Still waiting on Codex to decide a lot of models. Should be soon i hear.

EDIT: Oh, whats the best ez to get product to remove official paint?? Or just paint over it... It's 2 buggies painted 15 years ago red.

For paint removal I have fell in love with the liquid you put on alcohol stove(or whatever it's called in english). Basically very high % of alcohol(but not drinkable). Metal miniatures paint just flies away and even plastic with good rubbing paint goes away nicely and so far even hours of soaking doesn't damage the model(but you don't need to do hours. 10 minutes is like enough to start. I just left for hours to try it out)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
We can;t be sure what the rules for Orks are going to be, their armies being a mix of clans is pretty well eistablished though so I'd not be suprised to see some rules for it. dark eldar are proof eneugh that GW'll develop uniqueish rules for a faction to reflect a unique make up

Mix of clans is possible to do anyway with detachment systems. Not sure it would even be good idea to get multiple patrol=CP rule as that leaves heavy HQ tax. HQ tax when orks are likely going to lose tons of their HQ models due to lack of models on sale...And anyway with grots and boyz being actually useful 2-3 battallions isn't particularly hard which is 2-3 different clans and out CP's DE's 3 patrol's by a longshot.

 davou wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
No, they didn't. That is literally a tournament house rule. Did you even bother reading the URL? "warhammer-40000-grand-tournament"

You very deliberately left out the "games-workshop.com" part of that quote?

its not a house rule, its a tournament rule, coming from the official GW website. A house rule is what you and your mates do at home. What GW did carries quite a bit more weight, and while it may have no bearing on how you play at home, it certainly does away with the "Paint never matters" attitude that people have had in the past.

It is a house rule (ignoring the fact that GW's attitude is that the entire rulebook is house rules and you should feel free to change the ones you don't like). Despite being published on the GW website, it's only applicable to that particular event. It's not binding on my games at home, or any other tournament organiser to follow suit.

Clearly, the rules writers' intent is that if you paint your models as a certain Chapter, Regiment, Craftworld, Clan, etc, then you would use the rules for that faction, but it's never been something they've legislated for.

Even in this instance, all it says is "if you've painted your models as a faction we provide rules for, use those rules". It still allows you to paint your models as something else and still use the rules (say, paint your Marines pink and use the Ultramarines keyword, Stratagems, Warlord Trait and Relics).

Then again wouldn't be surprisising many other tournaments follow that as well. Tournaments tends to follow GW's directions like a lemmings anyway. GW decides to up the points to 2k in start of 8th ed to up sales, players followed in suit.

GW decides for 3 dets in 2k limit, universally adopted.

GW publish up beta rules, hey presto those are in use right away.

GW puts in max 3 datasheet rule suggestion, hey presto good luck finding game without it.

Wouldn't surprise to see this suggestion find it's way to default format.

tneva82 wrote:
Then again wouldn't be surprisising many other tournaments follow that as well. Tournaments tends to follow GW's directions like a lemmings anyway. GW decides to up the points to 2k in start of 8th ed to up sales, players followed in suit.

GW decides for 3 dets in 2k limit, universally adopted.

GW publish up beta rules, hey presto those are in use right away.

GW puts in max 3 datasheet rule suggestion, hey presto good luck finding game without it.

Wouldn't surprise to see this suggestion find it's way to default format.

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your policework, there, Lou.


If GW write it in a rule book, codex, FAQ etc then yes... people will take their lead and run with it. But I don't think there's much correlation at all between the official GT rules/tournament pack and any of the leading independent ones like ITC/ETC.

I'm pretty sure 90% of my opponents are not aware of those GT rules.