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Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Why is a mod allowed to locke something when he deems it "stupid"? Where is the rule for that on the site?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 19:18:06


 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Because he's a moderator. He moderates. That's more or less the definition of the volunteer role.


 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





That really tells me nothing. Are there guidelines or is this the Wild West? We have had more mod caused issues in the US politics thread recently than we have user caused ones. So I have to ask, what is going on? Do you guys discuss anything? Do you guys have to follow rules? Whats up here?

The short answers are not going to cut it here. Because from that response it seems like there are no rules and I should worry about hurting a mods feelings so I dont get banned.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 19:38:38


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

The guidelines are the same in Geek Media as for the rest of the site. Mods will lock threads that they deem inappropriate, pointless, or to have run their course. That's part of our job.

And no, you won't get banned for 'hurting a mod's feelings'. All of the moderators are adults. Suspensions are the result of inappropriate behaviour, not just disagreeing with a mod, and are recorded in a user's case file and discussed by the team where necessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 19:41:58


 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





So why was the thread locked in Geek Media? I don't see "stupid" in your list of reasons. Since he was involved in the topic and it was locked when people disagreed with him, I can only assume with the great clarity we were given. Why would I believe you about suspensions and bans if that type of behavior is okay?

As far as Geek Media goes, rules need to be clarified in that sub. Spoilers are a crapshoot in that sub, as a portion of people do not believe in spoiler tags and it has already caused issues.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







insaniak wrote:Mods will lock threads that they deem inappropriate, pointless, or to have run their course.


Dreadwinter wrote:So why was the thread locked in Geek Media? I don't see "stupid" in your list of reasons.


I think it falls under 'pointless'. At least, to that one moderator. If you've a problem, just message a second one. If they both agree, it probably is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 19:56:05



 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





So because somebody disagreed with him, he can deem a thread "stupid" and lock it on a whim? Just classify it as pointless?

Again, you are going to have to give a little more reasoning here.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Dreadwinter wrote:
So because somebody disagreed with him, he can deem a thread "stupid" and lock it on a whim? Just classify it as pointless?

Again, you are going to have to give a little more reasoning here.


Yes.In a nutshell. But every moderator keeps an eye on what every other moderator does. So if you think it was harsh or unfair or beyond the scope of the site rules, message another moderator.


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So because somebody disagreed with him, he can deem a thread "stupid" and lock it on a whim? Just classify it as pointless?
.

While technically, yes he could, it would be more likely that he deemed the thread pointless because he thought it was pointless, rather than because someone disagreed with him.


 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Yeah, I don't really trust that system much. Because if mods are allowed to lock threads based on feelings, they can also make decisions based on their feelings in PM. Seems better to get this in the open to avoid such abuse, right?

So here it is. The original post in the thread was pretty much a blog post. I will agree if it was shut down there I would have had no issues. But the discussion evolved from there to something else entirely. By posting in the thread, Kilkrazy gave it credibility. By shutting it down after he was disareed with, he lost credibility. The thread still has its merits in its evolved form. The thread itself is not a bashing thread. Instead it evolved to discuss the stereotypes of the genre itself. Both sides were making points in a civil manner. How was this "stupid" or "pointless"?

Further, my last post in this forum was unceremoniously locked as well by the same mod after he saw I was disagreeing with his lock. How does that inspire confidence in the mod team?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/11 20:16:37


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Dude, give it up. It got rightly locked. If it weren't packed solid with gakposts, it probably would have stayed open.

As for your previous post here, you asked for a rule, and you got one: No gakposting.

How hard was that to understand?
___

ETA, you're aware that Dakka isn't a democracy, right? It's a benevolent dictatorship.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/11 20:30:09


   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The only issue here is that the thread should have been locked earlier as it was clearly a blog-style opinion piece that was deliberately provocative.

So, it was eventually locked and all is well that ends well.

Or, you know, mostly.

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dude, give it up. It got rightly locked. If it weren't packed solid with shitposts, it probably would have stayed open.

As for your previous post here, you asked for a rule, and you got one: No shitposting.

How hard was that to understand?
___

ETA, you're aware that Dakka isn't a democracy, right? It's a benevolent dictatorship.


I asked for a discussion and was immediately shut down by the mod who locked the thread to begin with. Strangely when I made another one, other mods did not immediately lock it and point to that rule. Craaaaaaazy right?

You gonna add something or you just here to rub up on people?
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Another piece of the puzzle here that may not be immediately clear is that we moderators tend to give on-topic threads (i.e., one about miniatures gaming) a wider latitude than off-topic ones (mostly stuff in the More Dakka category of sub-fora).

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Dreadwinter wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dude, give it up. It got rightly locked. If it weren't packed solid with gakposts, it probably would have stayed open.

As for your previous post here, you asked for a rule, and you got one: No gakposting.

How hard was that to understand?
___

ETA, you're aware that Dakka isn't a democracy, right? It's a benevolent dictatorship.


I asked for a discussion and was immediately shut down by the mod who locked the thread to begin with. Strangely when I made another one, other mods did not immediately lock it and point to that rule. Craaaaaaazy right?

You gonna add something or you just here to rub up on people?


Dude, once again, you asked a question, you got an answer. Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it's wrong, or that someone is doing something personal by answering it.

Did you throw tantrums when your mom said "no, you can't have ice cream"? Because that's what you're doing. You're basically asking to permit unmoderated gakposts, people are telling you "no", and you're getting snippy over that answer. If you don't like that, maybe find another site.

Anyhow, as I actually recognize that I have nothing else to add here, I'm going to step away.

As it appears you have nothing to add here, maybe you should walk away, too.

   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Also, a thread doesn't need to include rules violations to be locked. Locking a thread isn't a disciplinary act (like a warning or ban), but simply an administrative act. A thread can be locked for being a duplicate, for example.

A thread that has little chance of yielding positive discussion, and also likely to escalate into a flamewar, all while being on the very outskirts of Geek Media? Sounds like a good call to lock it.

   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Manchu wrote:
Another piece of the puzzle here that may not be immediately clear is that we moderators tend to give on-topic threads (i.e., one about miniatures gaming) a wider latitude than off-topic ones (mostly stuff in the More Dakka category of sub-fora).


So "If it's media that appeals to geeks, it goes here" is not correct? Should it be media that appeals to the moderators? You guys are sending really mixed signals here. I get this is a Warhammer site and warhammer related things are prioritized. But in a section that specifically brings up movies, books, comics, and whatnot, you would think that rule would be far more lax. Especially since the sub has what, 4 active star wars threads?

So are all subs besides the specific Off-Topic one supposed to adhere to a Miniatures first policy and let everything else rest on the whims of mods?

Spoiler:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dude, give it up. It got rightly locked. If it weren't packed solid with gakposts, it probably would have stayed open.

As for your previous post here, you asked for a rule, and you got one: No gakposting.

How hard was that to understand?
___

ETA, you're aware that Dakka isn't a democracy, right? It's a benevolent dictatorship.


I asked for a discussion and was immediately shut down by the mod who locked the thread to begin with. Strangely when I made another one, other mods did not immediately lock it and point to that rule. Craaaaaaazy right?

You gonna add something or you just here to rub up on people?


Dude, once again, you asked a question, you got an answer. Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it's wrong, or that someone is doing something personal by answering it.

Did you throw tantrums when your mom said "no, you can't have ice cream"? Because that's what you're doing. You're basically asking to permit unmoderated gakposts, people are telling you "no", and you're getting snippy over that answer. If you don't like that, maybe find another site.

Anyhow, as I actually recognize that I have nothing else to add here, I'm going to step away.

As it appears you have nothing to add here, maybe you should walk away, too.


Cool. Goodbye now. Bye!

Also, how was that likely to escalate? Even I was being civil in there. That should say something about the threads tone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 20:45:55


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

What I mean is, regardless of where a thread is posted, if it is not about miniatures gaming then it is subject to a higher degree of scrutiny. A thread along the lines of "why XYZ is bad" is more likely to attract rule-breaking posts, just trust my experience on that one. On the whole, we're more likely to preemptively lock such a thread if it isn't about miniatures gaming simply because it's off topic relative to the forum and therefore there is probably some other website more suited for that discussion (I Hate XYZ dot com).

Here's one I locked last week that is somewhat similar:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/758187.page#10012347

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 20:58:34


   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





I'm trusting my own experience here and saying that isn't as likely as is being let on here. We currently have the US Politics thread going on right now. Mods are giving it the benefit of the doubt. But a thread discussing Steampunk tropes is too much? Civilly discussing it, at that. Too much? There are way more volatile discussions going on in these forums right now than that. If it is the title, just change it. Easy fix. Because again, this thread has taken off.

Again, I get the start of it was awful. But the mod should have caught it there. By posting and then letting it continue, the thread gained legitimacy and a life of its own. I am saying we desperately need consistency from the mods. This cowboy thing going on is constantly causing issues.

That thread went bad for entirely different reasons. But yet it was given a chance. So far the only issues in the Steampunk thread are from the mod whose feathers got ruffled when we pointed out the tropes in the pictures we were talking about. Then it was suddenly "stupid".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 21:10:14


 
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





I was in the process of writing a long and substantive post there at the very moment the thread was locked, as there was still a loooooot of room for civil discussion which might have yielded some "change of perspective" results if the mod hasn't haphazardly lock the thread. Funnily enough, I was about to strenghten his POV substantially. There was no warning post usually being dispensed first in situations like this and I can hardly understand why exactly this thread was more non-dakka than any other geek media thread out there...
The OP being blatantly "I'm anti-something" does not preclude interesting and deep discussion because discussion threads are usually drifting away from OP rather fast.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

nou wrote:
I can hardly understand why exactly this thread was more non-dakka than any other geek media thread out there...
It's not that one topic in Geek Media is "more non-dakka" than another. The stuff posted in Geek Media is generally "off-topic" in the same sense that stuff posted in the Video Games sub-forum is "off-topic": namely, it is not about miniatures gaming but the site owners allow discussion about those topics because people who like miniatures gaming tend to also like video games and geeky movies, etc.

   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 Manchu wrote:
nou wrote:
I can hardly understand why exactly this thread was more non-dakka than any other geek media thread out there...
It's not that one topic in Geek Media is "more non-dakka" than another. The stuff posted in Geek Media is generally "off-topic" in the same sense that stuff posted in the Video Games sub-forum is "off-topic": namely, it is not about miniatures gaming but the site owners allow discussion about those topics because people who like miniatures gaming tend to also like video games and geeky movies, etc.


Then why exactly this was raised as one of the cumulative reasons behind the lock? Apparently some people who like miniatures gaming like steampunk setting also (heck, there are at least three miniature systems that are directly steampunk). Seriously, from the flow of that thread there is no lasting feeling other than a mod feeling cornered about a topic he likes and not wanting discussing it further. And I'm speaking from the same side of the fence that he was on... And the thread itself was quite civil for dakka standards, it had ongoing attention, there was a lot to be discussed further and there was no foul language used or serious personal attacks... It just leaves a feeling of very arbitrary lock and no explanation given here makes this feeling go away. Just my two cents.
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





So are you saying I can make a thread about Steampunk Tropes and it would be perfectly fine. But the thread we do have is unacceptable because it is "stupid"?
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 Dreadwinter wrote:
So are you saying I can make a thread about Steampunk Tropes and it would be perfectly fine. But the thread we do have is unacceptable because it is "stupid"?


The whole reasoning presented here surely leaves such a feeling...
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I raised the issue because you can see that the thread wasn't locked right away. This is the leeway I mentioned (as opposed to just autolocking "I hate XYZ" threads) but threads that are not about miniatures gaming get less leeway.

If you think about it, what is the use of a thread about why someone doesn't like something that other people like? There is an empty wasteland between "I like XYZ" and " I don't like XYZ." (This is why, for example, when the whole bronies thing was still a fad we only allowed one thread and we did not allow people who didn't like MLP to post their views of MLP in that thread.) We have a higher tolerance for this kind of discussion, even it is ultimately pointless, when the subject is miniatures gaming because this is a miniatures gaming discussion forum. But when it's not on topic, it is more likely to get shut down even if a moderator (or two in this case, Kilkrazy and myself) initially give it some leeway.

Sorry that moderator actions can sometimes come off as arbitrary. But there are reasons, after all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 22:12:02


   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





The reason is so you can have a discussion between people about why they dislike it. Making a thread like that is pretty much saying CMV. You pick your side, ready your reasons, and make the thread. See where it goes.

See, here is where we are seeing things wrong. If you make a thread like the MLP thread, that is an appreciation thread. People who like it go in there to discuss why they like it. Look at the thread I made earlier, The Cosmere. I made it specifically to talk about and appreciate that book series. Is somebody came in there and started trying to change my view about why I like it, I would be frustrated. Now if I made a thread saying "The Cosmere Sucks" then went on the explain why, I would expect people to come in with different opinions and challenge me on my own. But if you allow one side of the argument, a la the MLP thread. But not the opposite side, "MLP sucks", then the people wanting to talk about the flaws of the show or the fans or whatever will clearly leak in to the MLP thread. Because that is the only outlet they have.

You guys shot yourselves in the foot with the MLP stuff. The way to keep things civil is to keep the hardliners apart. Not force them together and then chastise one side.
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 Manchu wrote:
I raised the issue because you can see that the thread wasn't locked right away. This is the leeway I mentioned (as opposed to just autolocking "I hate XYZ" threads) but threads that are not about miniatures gaming get less leeway.

If you think about it, what is the use of a thread about why someone doesn't like something that other people like? There is an empty wasteland between "I like XYZ" and " I don't like XYZ." (This is why, for example, when the whole bronies thing was still a fad we only allowed one thread and we did not allow people who didn't like MLP to post their views of MLP in that thread.) We have a higher tolerance for this kind of discussion, even it is ultimately pointless, when the subject is miniatures gaming because this is a miniatures gaming discussion forum. But when it's not on topic, it is more likely to get shut down even if a moderator (or two in this case, Kilkrazy and myself) initially give it some leeway.

Sorry that moderator actions can sometimes come off as arbitrary. But there are reasons, after all.


In many instances, both in the internet discussions and in the real life, "I don't like XYZ" very often means simply "I don't understand XYZ enough to have at least some appreciation for it", as was at least partially the case in the thread in question. I have took part in a lot of similiar discussions and they often leave at least a feeling of mutual understanding or in best cases convincing some people to change their POVs or at least seeding an "inception" that grows over time. And now you have two people from the opposite sides of the fence asking moderators why they were interrupted in such process...

But it get's academic at this point, so I don't really expect any further answer or unlocking said thread. Cheers!

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

@Dreadwinter

Well, for the ... third? fourth? time now: when it comes to topics that are not related to miniatures gaming, we don't give a lot of leeway to "Yeah Huh" versus "Nuh Uh" threads, including hate threads. That is based on the considerable experience of the staff notwithstanding your suggestion.

@nou

Your comment in that thread was quite good. Anyone who wants to learn more about steampunk in good faith should read your comments here, should you choose to share your thoughts further.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/11 22:31:23


   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





That wasn't a "yea huh" vs "nuh uh" thread. That was a "I dont like this" and "well maybe you are looking at it wrong and this is your problem" thread. You have to understand the differences between butting heads and civil discourse if you are going to throw around terms like "considerable experience." Because the way it looks, you are equating time invested to raw experience and that is really bad.

You get experience from learning from mistakes. Like the MLP thread. Now you are trying to do the same thing by suggesting we go to the thread for appreciating Steampunk and derailing it with out previous thread spillover. That will not end well. I am sure the OP and others would not appreciate that at all.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The relevant distinction in this case is between asking to learn more about something you don't understand, which of course entails enough self-awareness to realize you don't understand something, against hoisting the flag of negativity on the off-chance that someone knowledgeable and patient will come along to correct your ignorance. The former is going to be, on the whole, a lot more acceptable on Dakka Dakka than the latter, especially when the topic is not related to miniatures gaming.

If you want to ask someone who likes steampunk about what they like about it and about what you feel like you don't understand, by all means please do. But no, it will not end well for a poster who demands that others justify why they like a thing, especially if that demand is premised with harsh but ultimately purely subjective negativity.

The MLP thread was a great success. People who liked MLP and wanted to actually discuss its merits could do so without being subjected to constant "are you dumb? why do you like that gak?" type posts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 22:53:01


   
 
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