Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Been thinking about this topic a while--who is statistically the most reliable at getting off psychic powers?

Here's some raw averages for casting value:

AVERAGE CASTING VALUE wrote:
GK Santic 6
Marines Librarius 6.33
BA
SW Index
DA Interromancy 6.5

Astra M 6

Daemons Total 6.44
Tzeentch 7.17
Slaanesh 6.17
Nurgle 6
Death Guard 6
TSons Total 6.83
TSons Change 7
CSM Hereticus 6.33

Craftworlds 6.58
Farseers Fate 6.67
Warlocks Battle 6.5
Harlequins 6.67

Tyranids 5.5
Cult

Orks Index 6.67

Please fill in the values I don't have.

Also, if you have any relevant info regarding bonuses that make it practically easier, list those as well.

Grey Knights wrote:
In Matched Play, Grey Knights get +1 to all casts, effectively lowering their average to a 5.

Tzeentch wrote:
The Lord of Change has a Psychic bonus on his degrading profile, at +2, +1, +0. This makes his first few casts of the game a 5.17

Craftworlds wrote:
Farseers have an inherent reroll, putting their Runes of Fate easier than 6.67...not sure what, though.

For Tyranids, Maleceptors have a +1 to all casts, making it an average 4,5. Also, Neurothropes have an aura which allows to reroll results of 1 on casts from Neurothropes and Zoanthropes.

I've never bothered to calculate averages WC, but it's always seemed obvious to me that Thousand Sons / Tzeentch got shafted. GW will always be GW...

 Nym wrote:
I've never bothered to calculate averages WC, but it's always seemed obvious to me that Thousand Sons / Tzeentch got shafted. GW will always be GW...

Having the highest casting value is just a side-effect of having access to the most powerful magics!

 Kharneth wrote:

 Nym wrote:
I've never bothered to calculate averages WC, but it's always seemed obvious to me that Thousand Sons / Tzeentch got shafted. GW will always be GW...

Having the highest casting value is just a side-effect of having access to the most powerful magics!

Besides, some powers like Weaver of Fate and Glamour of Tzaantch (iirc about their name, one is -1 to hit, the other +1 to inv save) are very very strong when used on Magnus. but those are costing only WC 6 or 7... Warp Time, being fantastic, is only WC6 as well.

On the other hand, some MW generating powers, like Doombolt, just looks subpar but causong WC9.....

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:

 Nym wrote:
I've never bothered to calculate averages WC, but it's always seemed obvious to me that Thousand Sons / Tzeentch got shafted. GW will always be GW...

Having the highest casting value is just a side-effect of having access to the most powerful magics!

Besides, some powers like Weaver of Fate and Glamour of Tzaantch (iirc about their name, one is -1 to hit, the other +1 to inv save) are very very strong when used on Magnus. but those are costing only WC 6 or 7... Warp Time, being fantastic, is only WC6 as well.

On the other hand, some MW generating powers, like Doombolt, just looks subpar but causong WC9.....

Pft rules.

Eldar Seer Council stratagem. +1

GUO bileblade +1

Doombolt was dropped to 8 in the last FAQ.

Ork Weirdboyz are reliable casters (particularly at the start of a game), gaining +1 to cast per every 10 Ork models within 10". Perfectly possible to get a guaranteed cast for Smite and the Ork powers.

 Kharneth wrote:
Having the highest casting value is just a side-effect of having access to the most powerful magics!

No, it's a side effect of GW liking some armies more than others and / or having absolutely no clue on how to balance a game. I'll probably repeat myself but look at Miasma of Pestilence vs Glamour of Tzeentch.

Miasma of Pestilence : friendly DEATH GUARD (or NURGLE DAEMON) unit is now -1 to hit. Range 18", Warp Charge 6
Glamour of Tzeentch : friendly THOUSAND SONS unit is now -1 to hit. Range 12", Warp Charge 7

Still not convinced ? Let's take a look at another power

Fleshy Abundance : friendly NURGLE DAEMON unit regains d3 lost wounds. Range 18", Warp Charge 6
Temporal Manipulation : friendly THOUSAND SONS unit regains d3 lost wounds. Range 12", Warp Charge 7

Notice a trend here ? Thousand Sons powers have all been nerfed to account for the added range of their Legion Trait and the bonus to cast of their (named) characters. This is utter bullpoo. TS powers are so unreliable that it's not rare to fail *every single one* in a Psychic phase.

When talking about Tzeench Daemons we should not forget they have a stratagem that allows for all daemons in range re-roll failed psychic tests. It makes casting much, much more reliable.

AstraVlad wrote:
When talking about Tzeench Daemons we should not forget they have a stratagem that allows for all daemons in range re-roll failed psychic tests. It makes casting much, much more reliable.

It costs 2 CP and only affects DAEMONS.

Would you be ok if Astra Millitarum units were BS6+, but with a 2CP stratagem they get re-roll to hit in a 6" radius OR for 1CP you get +2 to hit on ONE shooting roll ? This is exactly how it feels to play Thousand Sons.

Factions should not be penalized for being good at something. Thousand Sons get the worse deal in the casting values than any other faction, under the justification that "two of their named characters have a bonus to casting". This pretty much takes away the bonus of these characters, AND makes the rest of them worse than other psykers at the same time. Meanwhile, Thousand Sons "pay" for their psychic prowess by being weak in every other aspect of the game. But if you penalize them on the psychic phase also under the pretense that "that's their specialty", then what's even the point of playing Thousand Sons? TS ranges are shorter than other factions because their trait gives them range? This is stupid. This cancels the trait of the TS, it's not a bonus any more. it's something they need in order to be on par with the rest of the factions.

It's like reducing the range of all Tau weapons compared to their alternative because they are the best in shooting anyways.

Welcome to the world of GK.

 Nym wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:
When talking about Tzeench Daemons we should not forget they have a stratagem that allows for all daemons in range re-roll failed psychic tests. It makes casting much, much more reliable.

It costs 2 CP and only affects DAEMONS.

Yes, it does. But if you are playing Tzeench Daemons, probably you do want to boost Daemons?

 Nym wrote:

Would you be ok if Astra Millitarum units were BS6+, but with a 2CP stratagem they get re-roll to hit in a 6" radius OR for 1CP you get +2 to hit on ONE shooting roll ? This is exactly how it feels to play Thousand Sons.

I play TS as well and with their casting range bonus, non-increasing Smite cost and access to 3 magic disciplines, I find them quite good, maybe even competitive. Not top-level, but decent. It is the only faction in the game that can still use smite-spam and they can do it from 24'' away.