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Librarian in Terminator Armor [9 PL, 130pts]: 2) Might of Heroes, 3) Psychic Scourge, 5) Psychic Fortress, Force sword, Iron Resolve, Storm bolter, Tome of Malcador, Warlord
+ Troops +
Tactical Squad [9 PL, 186pts] . 7x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Power fist, Storm bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun
GamerGuy wrote: By the looks of things you've just picked up a start collecting box
Yep
GamerGuy wrote: they're not ideal in terms of loadout, but far from difficult to optimise?
If I'm honest I decided on the loadouts based on nostalgia for the TAC squads I used to field in Rogue Trader. The choice of a Terminator Librarian instead of a Terminator Captain was because I've always like psykers and it's a WYSIWYG counts as...
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/06/23 14:53:00
I think at this point level playing the miniature as the captain you own; psychic powers aren't that great a deal at this point level; where the re-rolls on the dreadnought's lascannons and tactical squad's missile launcher will be a greater force multiplier.
Mad respect for sticking to your guns (literally), they're really not the best set up, no idea what battlefield role they'll fulfil, the ranges have no synergy etc..... but mad respect. also at 500pts the assault cannon may suit better due to the higher volume of fire
My first objective is to relive some old-school battles. After that I'll certainly see how a Terminator Captain compares
Out of interest, what's wrong with my TAC squad's loadouts? The sergeant is good at close combat (and twice as shooty as the bolter marines), the missile launcher gives it range (and a choice of frag/krak) and the meltagun gives it some punch at close range. Seems fairly flexible for the core of a skirmish army?
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2018/06/22 16:29:48
If you can give the Sergeant and Special Weapon guy a Combi-Flamer and Flamer respectively. Since Ultramarines can fallback and shoot, this basically means they can move up shoot and charge, then fallback and auto-hit with the flamers. Other than that the Tome of Malcedor is total garbage since all you need is Smite and Might of Heroes anyway. Might as well give your Librarian the Primarch's Wrath and Adept of the Codex Warlord Trait.
The Missile Launcher is fine if you have targets for the Flakk Missile Stratagem, otherwise you might be better off with a Heavy Bolter so you can use Hellfire Rounds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/19 21:11:22
TheArmorOfContempt wrote: If you can give the Sergeant and Special Weapon guy a Combi-Flamer and Flamer respectively. Since Ultramarines can fallback and shoot, this basically means they can move up shoot and charge, then fallback and auto-hit with the flamers.
That would take it to 499 points, although I'm not sure I'd want to trade S8 AP-4 and D6 damage for auto-hit.
Personally i'd switch out the melta on your tac squad for a plasma or grav gun. Or ditch the special and go for a multi-melta if you're determined to go melta path.
Plasma will give you greater range and still really good AP, and a grav gun allows you to take on heavy vehicles / characters in terminator armour etc without needing to be close enough to charge or get charged.
The Captain is the better terminator HQ in that instance ^
whats wrong is that the army seems unfocused. I understand you're going for skirmish, but have to say you underlined your own problem. the ranges don't synergise? to get use out of the power fist and melta, that squad wants to be advancing on the enemy, and frankly, wants a combi-melta to pair with the storm bolter. you're directing your squad towards something melta will hurt.... it makes very little sense not to have a second one in your 5 men. with combat squads the missile launcher is fine, though with stratagems you will hear a lot of people promoting the heavy bolter...
also, going forwards with this list, you own 3 intercessors from first strike... hop on ebay and grab a 5 man squad of intercessors from the dark imperium box set... for 8-9quid you'll have a 3rd troop, and with Castor running lieutent duties, you have the command point benefits of a battlion
GamerGuy
Automatically Appended Next Post: To help you understand your problem better, you're missing mobility & range synergies. at 500pts mobility is less of an issue, especially if you decide the dreadnought can be trusted without the captain babysitting it.... never underestimate a deepstriking terminator captain at 500pts.
Melta is kinda underwhelming at this stage of the game... I'd always take plasma and combiplasma on my tactical squads, but then again I love fielding my tacticals en masse. maybe leave GW shopping for a little while if you've over invested and look to ebay…. you can maybe get your boys a ride for when you step up to 750pts on the cheap?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/23 16:30:51
GamerGuy wrote: The Captain is the better terminator HQ in that instance ^
whats wrong is that the army seems unfocused. I understand you're going for skirmish, but have to say you underlined your own problem. the ranges don't synergise? to get use out of the power fist and melta, that squad wants to be advancing on the enemy, and frankly, wants a combi-melta to pair with the storm bolter. you're directing your squad towards something melta will hurt.... it makes very little sense not to have a second one in your 5 men.
That's a good suggestion. If I switch to a Terminator Captain I could use the remaining points to equip the TAC squad sergeant with a combi-melta.
If I'm honest I decided on the loadouts based on nostalgia for the TAC squads I used to field in Rogue Trader. The choice of a Terminator Librarian instead of a Terminator Captain was because I've always like psykers and it's a WYSIWYG counts as...
I really like my Tac squads and Rhinos. If you want to take advantage of the dread, remember to use the Ancient Knowledge strategem, to re-roll 1s on a phase. Very useful and fluffy!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother Castor wrote: Would the Sanctic Halo be a better relic to take than the Burning Blade if I don't have a psyker?
IMO a weapon is a pretty good choice for a character in this list if it's not a captain. Just go with whatever fits your fluff better
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/07 10:51:08
The list says blood angels, but you can use it as SM. Dont use special weapons on your tac squad, infantry is squishy. Why bother with soft models like infantry when you can have three vehicles ? The captain on bike is hard to kill with T5 and W6, he unleashes a bullet storm of 8 bolter shots at 12" hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s, he can take out enemy vehicles with his hammer, and can keep up with the vehicles re-rolling 1s, which allows the dread to safely overcharge plasma. You can fool around with the vehicles weapons loadout, a razorback can get a twin lascannon, or an assault cannon, you need to remove the hammer from the captain, though.
likewise; a baby Nidzilla would be entirely possible, I'm picturing a flyrant with maybe a tervigon for spawning troops in, carnifex kitted for melee... if you knew you were facing a horde you'd swap the lascannon for assault cannon on the dread? ands I might swap anyway.... the missile launcher should be sufficient to deal with 1 or maybe 2 sturdier models?
-the flakk missile stratagem might come in handy for you?
quick debate starter: burning blade (counter assault) or santic halo (psychic defense?)… Nid's tend to do both well...
p5freak wrote: You should get more dakka, like AC, HB, SB.
If you look above I actually changed one of my storm bolters for a combi-melta, but the Terminator Captain and Dreadnought still both have one. I'm hoping to play WYSIWYG so I'd rather keep the loadouts the same now. If I get tabled in turn two I'll go non-WYSIWYG next time and change the twin lascannons to twin autocannons, melta to heavy bolter and combi-melta to storm bolter
GamerGuy wrote:quick debate starter: burning blade (counter assault) or santic halo (psychic defense?)… Nid's tend to do both well...
Yeah - I asked this myself a few posts back when I changed my Librarian for a Captain. If the psychic phase proves problematic I'll bring the Sanctic Halo next time
GamerGuy wrote:the flakk missile stratagem might come in handy for you?
It looks like I'm up against another Patrol Detachment - Brood Lord, Genestealers, Hormagaunts and Tyranid Warriors but no flyers. Any others?
This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2018/07/22 13:51:49
ooooh nasty list to face brother, I can't think of any off the top of my head?
with this in mind... I'd stick with the burning blade? there's no threatening psykers in that line up; but a counter assault threat in the form of the captain will be invaluable!
….would it be worth dropping the captain altogether? run Castor as bolter lieutenant and with the points saved take one of your understrength units? those intercessors bring more dakka and an extra 6" reach to the early turns that bolter marines don't?
YMMV?
edit: you could proxy the reivers as intercessors and kill them first... he's got loads of bodies brother and it concerns me that you may lack firepower... the lascannons are a straight up waste against that list?
final suggestion; i'm sat here brainstorming.... but Castor could be a barebones captain in power armour for re-roll 1 buffs; with an "intercessor" unit and tacticals; with a re-equipped dread you'll seize the upper hand?
Good Luck
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/23 18:00:38
At the moment I'm thinking the Scions of Guilliman stratagem along with the Codex Discipline chapter tactic will come in very useful, especially for the TAC squad. I had no real need for the Sanctic Halo, but with all those invulnerable saves the Burning Blade wasn't amazing either.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/27 10:27:45
So we played two games of Only War: Slay and Secure, and the result was 1 game each
In the first game I tabled the Tyranids on turn 3 The range of the twin lascannon against the Tyranid Warriors was useful, and the chapter tactic and stratagem combo worked well with the TAC squad split into 2 using the combat squads rule. The captain didn't contribute a lot in all honesty despite teleporting-in, but I did get lucky with a double six overwatching with the 2 meltas, and also the dreadnought exploding at the end of the game taking out the remaining Genestealers
In the second game we swapped ends and my opponent changed his list from Hive Fleet Gorgon to Hive Fleet Kraken. What I thought was another deployment outside of charge range ended up with Genestealers all over me in turn 1 this time and I was tabled in turn 2 despite the captain teleporting-in to attack the Brood Lord
So in hindsight I think the terrain setup probably favoured the Tyranids with lots of LOS-blocking buildings, and not being clued-up on the new abilities of my opposing army was catastrophic in the second game. I didn't really have a problem in the psychic phase despite not taking the Sanctic Halo, but then again, with all the invulnerable saves the Burning Blade wasn't amazing either.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/07/27 11:52:46
Having looked through the codex since the game, for more dakka I think I'd probably rather bring a Whirlwind with a castellian launcher. Heavy 2D6 at up to 72" without LOS really appeals, especially with the captain defending it so it hits on a 2
Is the Whirlwind a good all-round option? Can the vengeance launcher be effective against non-horde armies too?
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/08/04 16:52:16
Brother Castor; I love my whirlwind as a model; and even ran it last edition when it was kinda bad.... so here's my notes;
1) Man you need some more troops. if you're fighting Nid's a lot, weight of fire is your friend. 15 intercessors from ebay are cheap as chips and fill out a much needed battalion if castor joins the party as a barebones lieutenant.
2) The whirlwind is fun. quite rightly you mention the captain buff, but he'll only help the "to hit" rolls that follow, not the roll for determining the number of shots. command point re-rolls on the other hand will be useful. 2 squads of intercessors/tacticals in addition to your existing 5 man squad nets you 5 re-rolls, and with the warlord trait "adept of the codex" you should be firing on all cylinders.
3) while Corennus is correct; damage output from a dev squad would be more consistent, the whirlwind has greater durability, has a footprint large enough to pretty much secure your back field from deepstrikers; and doesn't need terrain for line of sight.... the whirlwind may serve you well?
Ultimately... get a few more soldiers on the board, and play slightly higher points values? Hope this helped? GamerGuy
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 14:37:19
All good advice thanks. I'm not sure if I'll be playing against Tyranids a lot or not. A Vanguard Detachment with a Lieutenant and Aggressors instead of TAC marines could make a good 750 point anti-horde army, but that's for another list. For now I'd like to keep focused on an all-round skirmish list that I can have fully-painted and WYSIWYG. I'm keen to include a Rhino variant of some sort so the Whirlwind appeals a lot.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 15:58:42
Is it just a reluctance to paint infantry that drives you from featuring them in your list?
Not meaning to be judgemental but it seems odd to play toy soldiers with as few soldiers as possible? Your troops are more important than perhaps you realise so far
A Vanguard with Lieutenant and Aggressors? If the dread is the 2nd elite... what've you got planned for the third compulsory slot?
It's a good investment the whirlwind; if nothing else for the pleasure of building and painting the kit. Love mine.
[1,800] Chaos Knights | 
[1,250] Thousand Sons | 
[1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | 
As I said on my P&M blog, if I get to play regularly I'll expand and post a new army list.
and I was tabled in turn 2 despite the captain teleporting-in to attack the Brood Lord 
