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Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/CYIC-yrij1Kip4YksC0Dl6A5XU9tpnjzHKRW5ysXTeU/%3Fwidth%3D508%26height%3D594/https/images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/aXtxXQLWtrjP0ndFfzxRc9ukxKUcbnFzPYPnKqmPZMI/%253F_nc_cat%253D0%2526oh%253Dc5bef19a8b824d98d0fb51ae662d2ebb%2526oe%253D5BBFB6ED/https/scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34745888_206477206833092_3919945749739077632_n.jpg?width=506&height=592


I want to keep my precious seekers for T2 or T3 but this rule force me to shoot all my weapons when i shoot?

Is this an overlook or something well known?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/16 09:10:12


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

It has been debated endlessly by some folk since the new edition.

Nobody plays it as ‘must fire all your one-shot weapons first time you fire’. It’s usually taken as intended - permission to fire all guns, vs having to select which of your guns you will fire.

One chap is an ardent crusader for forcing you to fire everything at once and he’ll be along soon to call me a cheat etc. But just know that this rule simply isn’t played as harshly as you suggest by anyone.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JohnnyHell wrote:
It has been debated endlessly by some folk since the new edition.

Nobody plays it as ‘must fire all your one-shot weapons first time you fire’. It’s usually taken as intended - permission to fire all guns, vs having to select which of your guns you will fire.

One chap is an ardent crusader for forcing you to fire everything at once and he’ll be along soon to call me a cheat etc. But just know that this rule simply isn’t played as harshly as you suggest by anyone.


While this has been true, it seems a number of tournament players have only recently become aware of this so I could see it being contested more in upcoming events.

But few if anyone's being that harsh in casual games, the tau codex for example is serious mess if they actually ment this to work this way.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Ice_can wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
It has been debated endlessly by some folk since the new edition.

Nobody plays it as ‘must fire all your one-shot weapons first time you fire’. It’s usually taken as intended - permission to fire all guns, vs having to select which of your guns you will fire.

One chap is an ardent crusader for forcing you to fire everything at once and he’ll be along soon to call me a cheat etc. But just know that this rule simply isn’t played as harshly as you suggest by anyone.


While this has been true, it seems a number of tournament players have only recently become aware of this so I could see it being contested more in upcoming events.

But few if anyone's being that harsh in casual games, the tau codex for example is serious mess if they actually ment this to work this way.


Exactly. Call me if it’s ever a real-world problem... until then it’s an internet-only talking point and not a legitimate problem.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Yes, you must fire all of your weapons if you decide to fire, to do so otherwise is to willingly ignore and/or break the rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757932.page#10003112
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Exactly on schedule.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, you must fire all of your weapons if you decide to fire, to do so otherwise is to willingly ignore and/or break the rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757932.page#10003112

That does not say what you think it says.

It only gives you the option to fire everything. It does not force you to fire everything.

Your interpretationof the rule is not correct.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 DeathReaper wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, you must fire all of your weapons if you decide to fire, to do so otherwise is to willingly ignore and/or break the rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757932.page#10003112

That does not say what you think it says.

It only gives you the option to fire everything. It does not force you to fire everything.

Your interpretationof the rule is not correct.
Actually, it is you who is incorrect. There is no interpreting going on here.
Page 179 BRB wrote:“Unless otherwise stated, each model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with.”
There is nothing optional about that sentence.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, you must fire all of your weapons if you decide to fire, to do so otherwise is to willingly ignore and/or break the rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757932.page#10003112

That does not say what you think it says.

It only gives you the option to fire everything. It does not force you to fire everything.

Your interpretationof the rule is not correct.
Actually, it is you who is incorrect. There is no interpreting going on here.
Page 179 BRB wrote:“Unless otherwise stated, each model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with.”
There is nothing optional about that sentence.


Dude, just give this tired stuck record a rest. Please? You’ve linked the prior thread, it’s probably in your sig. Leave it at that. No-one treats it as an imperative - it’s played as a permissive.

Some people come here to find out how to play the game, and “well, actually”-ing every thread really doesn’t benefit anyone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/16 20:08:18


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 JohnnyHell wrote:
No-one treats it as an imperative - it’s played as a permissive.
I treat it as an imperative. I play my games with it as an imperative. You know this, because I've told you in the past. Therefore, your post claiming "no-one" treats it like an imperative is an outright lie. Therefore, we can dismiss your postings in the future as that of a liar.
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Some people come here to find out how to play the game
Last time I checked, we played games by following the rules? Or have I been doing it wrong by only moving my King one space at a time and "how people play it" is that he can teleport to any space?

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/06/16 20:16:52


 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, you must fire all of your weapons if you decide to fire, to do so otherwise is to willingly ignore and/or break the rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757932.page#10003112

That does not say what you think it says.

It only gives you the option to fire everything. It does not force you to fire everything.

Your interpretationof the rule is not correct.
Actually, it is you who is incorrect. There is no interpreting going on here.
Page 179 BRB wrote:“Unless otherwise stated, each model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with.”
There is nothing optional about that sentence.


And you are interpreting that to mean something that it does not.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
No-one treats it as an imperative - it’s played as a permissive.
I treat it as an imperative. I play my games with it as an imperative. You know this, because I've told you in the past. Therefore, your post claiming "no-one" treats it like an imperative is an outright lie. Therefore, we can dismiss your postings in the future as that of a liar.
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Some people come here to find out how to play the game
Last time I checked, we played games by following the rules? Or have I been doing it wrong by only moving my King one space at a time and "how people play it" is that he can teleport to any space?


Outright calling me a liar is against the forum rules. And last I checked this forum wasn’t about chess, so yet again you throw in a tangential fallacy.

For those who aren’t BCB, playing by the same understanding of the rules as your opponent is the key thing. And (I stand by this) as 99.9% of people (happier now, pal?) play treating this as a permissive then should you be as unfortunate as to discover an internet-dweller who needs to use this particular misreading as their route to victory then eh... concede and go play someone fun.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/16 20:47:14


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 DeathReaper wrote:
And you are interpreting that to mean something that it does not.
Can you explain to me how a rule requiring you to fire all weapons can be considered optional?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Outright calling me a liar is against the forum rules.
It isn't when you tell a lie and libel me. That isn't rude, that's factual.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
For those who aren’t BCB, playing by the same understanding of the rules as your opponent is the key thing. And (I stand by this) as 99.9% of people (happier now, pal?) play treating this as a permissive then should you be as unfortunate as to discover an internet-dweller who needs to use this particular misreading as their route to victory then eh... concede and go play someone fun.
So if 99% of people said modifiers happened before re-rolls, despite the Rules and FAQ clearly saying that isn't the case, you'd accept it as fact? If 99% of people said "Ultramarines have 30 wounds", would you accept it as fact?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/06/16 21:30:38


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

More false equivalence fallacies and claims of ‘libel’ (I’m actually laughing at that). So predictable and so boring.

People have explained why they believe it’s permissive in this and other threads. You seem intent on another spin on this particular merry-go-round but I’m out, as it’s boring, repetitious and will just lead to more and more Rule 1 violations. Not remotely interested.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 JohnnyHell wrote:
More false equivalence fallacies and claims of ‘libel’ (I’m actually laughing at that). So predictable and so boring.

People have explained why they believe it’s permissive in this and other threads. You seem intent on another spin on this particular merry-go-round but I’m out, as it’s boring, repetitious and will just lead to more and more Rule 1 violations. Not remotely interested.
And I have explained why it's not permissive. The only one spinning the merry-go-round is you when you insist on lying and libelling me to try and prove a point. I also notice you avoided answering my questions.

In any case, I've said my piece. To the OP, you must fire single use weapons. That's all there is to it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/16 21:43:27


 
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

BCB what happens if one of your weapons isn't in range of anything? You only have permission to fire all of your weapons so nothing can fire.

Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in gb
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





West Yorkshire

Simple solution to resolve this argument. speak with opponent beforehand and confirm how they play the rule. Adjust battles accordingly.
Personally every game I've had it's always been permissive that you can elect which weapons to fire and nobody (Even people that work at GW stores) has ever questioned it.

5000pts W4/ D0/ L5
5000pts W10/ D2/ L7
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 roflmajog wrote:
BCB what happens if one of your weapons isn't in range of anything? You only have permission to fire all of your weapons so nothing can fire.
If it's not in range it doesn't fire, like the rules say. If it is in range it must fire. Read all of the rules before a poor attempt at a gotcha.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/16 23:11:43


 
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

You are right on the first count, wrong on the second. Where does it say it can fire all of its weapons except the ones not in range? It only says that the ones out of range can't fire and that you can fire all of your weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/16 23:39:10


Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

SO, this appears to have been sufficiently answered in the first post, so I'm locking it down to avoid further silliness.

 
   
 
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