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Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




TL;DR : Orks, in my opinion, should be able to ally with Imperial Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau and CSM.
It would be more than welcome fluff-wise, would allow creative list building, while not being broken if rules are smartly written.
It might have to be a <clan> specific rule (for example, you can only add blood axes / freebooterz).
Same case could be made for kroots, for different but equally good reasons.
Finally, it would be good for business, the idea of recruiting mercenary orks (arguably the funniest and most wholesome race in the universe) will tempt many hobbyists.
Conversions, fun rules spicing up control freak armies... What's not to love ? (Really, I'm actually asking, hence this post).

SO.

How does the community feel about the following reasonning :
Orks where engineered for one purpouse : Fighting.
Their value system revolves around killing people and destroying things : anything that leads to these outcomes (looting, sneaking, "diplomacy"...) is "good" to them.
They are very clearly a means to an end.
- The Old Ones would have used them to Fight the C'tan.
- The Eldar sheppered them against their foes for proxy fighting. (think dow winter assault)
- The Imperial Guard sometimes makes "treaties" with them, especially blood axes. Terms being "Let's first get those daemons out of the way, then we'll have a good fight, pinky promise !"
- The Tau's ethereals might be able to mind control weakly lead ork mobs. Freebooterz / Ork mercenaries on the other hand might pull of a Kroot "There, at the sacred Oathstone, the Kroot leader swore allegiance to the Tau Empire and pledged his warriors to fight for the Greater Good (and regular payment)"
- Chaos always finds a way. Khornate warbands will find the orks to be the perfect wingman, Tzeench sorcerers might *change* some warbosses's mind.
- Finally, a dark eldar planetary raid would only be more awesome with some kopters, chinork warkopters and maniac bikers to crank up the Mad Max meter to the ROOF. Pirates, Corsairs and Freebooterz are dying to get together and f*** s*** up.

Orkz are a means to an end. For pure ork waaaghs, the "end" graciously loops with the "means", in the never ending cycle of fighting for fighting that make orks so unique and loveable.
For other races, the end might be save the universe, protect the craftworld, tempo until the warpstorm ends and reinforcements arrive, spread communism like mushrooms , or plain old raping murdering and burning the entire universe.

In fact, this makes so much sense to me that if this isn't masterfully included in their new codex to come, I would feel extremely disappointed.
Then again, i'm french so I might as well just go on strike for this.
Please excuse my bad english and discuss !

Also, if you have good ideas of the specific rules that would make this happen in a balanced and funny way, please let us know.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Orks have in the fluff acted as mercenaries - the problem being that they tend to get carried away and just krump everyone.

Blood Axe's in particular use other races as Mercs.

However I would prefer a full Mercs OCdex allowing various options for all armies.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






I like this idea but think it would be incredibly hard to balance. Perhaps allied Orks could have a risk of going rogue and either legging it from the battle or krumping their allies?

I can't image they'd be the most loyal or reliable allies and this should be reflected in game.

I also don't like the idea of Orks becoming just a side bit for the other main threats, which might happen with this idea.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I like this idea but think it would be incredibly hard to balance. Perhaps allied Orks could have a risk of going rogue and either legging it from the battle or krumping their allies?

I can't image they'd be the most loyal or reliable allies and this should be reflected in game.

I also don't like the idea of Orks becoming just a side bit for the other main threats, which might happen with this idea.


Agreed - however having them able to take a small group of Guard "advisors" would be fun.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for your input, I don't think balance is going to be the biggest problem here.
Especially since the main reason you would want to bring orks at the table is going to be for fluff reasons, so making rules that ensure counterplay / make this alliance underpowered are actually acceptable.

One way that seems very fitting to me would be using Command Points.
The logic behind it is that the only thing that keeps a rag tag army of pirates / keeps the orks from fighting the army they're with is discipline or currency (aka TEEF').
Let's imagine the following rule :

"1 <Blood axes> or <Freebooterz> Detachment can be incorporated, at the cost of 1CP per game turn.
They cannot use any of the warlord's army bonuses and stratagems, and vice versa.
If the player runs out of CP, but there are still turns left, his ennemy takes control of the ork warband.
If the ennemy players kills the main army's warlord, the player suffers -1 CP".

Something among those lines would limit strategic/combo abuse, bring counterplay thanks to the trigger mechanic...

If my uneducated self can come with silly ideas, I'm sure people who's job it is to build balanced rules could make this awesome situation happen.

A Mercs Codex could be a good/better idea, I agree ! Dogs of War for 40K !

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/24 12:52:04


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Nothing stops you playing narrative play and doing this.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I'd thought about something like this in the past - essentially adding a "Mercenary" faction keyword that allows these units to be used in other armies.

Something maybe like this:

Mercenary: Units with this faction keyword count as a match to any one other faction in your army. Mercenary units must be part of their own detachment and cannot benefit from Stratagems from other factions.

About the only army I could see this being a fluff problem with is Tyranids. But, you could always say that the Mercenary units are "herding" the 'Nids or something similar.

If you want to have a downside (I wouldn't), there's several ways to go about it:

Command point cost (per turn), as above (blech, not to my taste)

Loss of the HQ Mercenary unit means the Mercenaries either take a blow to Leadership (say, -2), take an immediate "Battleshock" test or just simply hoof it.

Create a Mercenary "Burden"/"Treachery" table akin to the recent IK Freeblade table.

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator






 Stormonu wrote:
About the only army I could see this being a fluff problem with is Tyranids. But, you could always say that the Mercenary units are "herding" the 'Nids or something similar.

Well, we know there are human Genestealer cults, but there's also been fluff of at least one Eldar cult as well; plus with the synapse aspect of Tyranids it's easy enough to just spin some kind of psychic control?

I'd prefer these to "herding" as there's actually been several instances in fluff where others have tried to do just that and failed as synapse creatures are capable of setting traps, luring away high value assets etc.; in the Warlord book Tyranids at the start purposefully lure away vainglorious titan commanders who think there's a bio-titan to fight.

   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




Spoiler:
Hmm... My original intent was to discuss specifically about the orks, and the kroot, who seemed to me like the most natural contenders for this "mercenray" trait.

Apparently, there is a higher interest for a broader approach to this mercenary aspect.

Maybe internet spreadsheets such as the ones AoS uses could make this work, explaining the requirements and possibilities of hiring mercenaries.

Thinking about it, such a release seems very unlikely if GW doesn't feel a strong need for this feature.
Realistically, it seems much more flavorfull to include in the Ork Codex a Mercenary Section, same goes with the Tau Codex for the Kroot. It would also give more value to those Codexes (and their high prices), making it more likely GW would actually make this step...

How about we start with a small scale Mercenary section in the ork and tau codex, see how that works out, then extend it to other races ("hearded zombified tyranids" in the tyranids codex, Red Corsairs in the Chaos Codex etc...) ?

As an entrepreneur, this scalable model with feedback loop sounds like a good idea, both for us custommers as well as GW.


PS : I like Stormonu's approach too. Keywords basically replaced the allies matrix, while allowing more depth and personality to each army.
It is a powerfull tool that should be used to its full potential, using it to make mercenary detachments happen would be very coherent and satisfying !




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's how I would go about it :

In the next Ork Codex, add a 3 page section "Ork Mercenaries" :

- 1 page of fluff, with examples of Orks fighting alongside other factions for various reasons (from the stupid snakebites charging Imperial lines head on, tricked by Taldeer, to the opportunistic Freebooterz that Ahriman paid to divert some Harlequin's attention while he was seeking an entrance to the Black Library).

- 1 page of Rules, stating for example :
"1 Ork detachment can be included into any army.
They don't benefit from the Host army's Stratagems.
If the Ork HQ dies, each ork unit must make a leadership test (without mob modifiers) at the begining of your turn.
If it fails, the ennemy player can control the unit during your turn. He moves after you moved all your units, shoots after you shot with all your units, etc.
You can target your own units if you wish to (comissar sees angry mob turning around to fight him, promptly orders Leman Russ punisher to mow down the traitors)

- 1 page of photos and conversion ideas.

Finally, enter keywords : <Blood axes> clan have, in addition to their other bonuses, the exceptionnal ability to use Imperial Guard Stratagems and can receive Orders (Shootas using First rank fire second rank fire... How fun and fluffy would that be ?).

<Freebooterz> clan have, in addition to their other bonuses, the ability to "show off" : if it wipes out an ennemy squad, units from host army in a 12" radius become fearless and re roll 1's to hit.
(Those damn Orks are a little to confident to Archon Akhara'Keth's taste, let's show them how it's done in Comorragh).

If it is a success, expand to other codexes in the future, following the same pattern.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/06/25 12:28:44


 
   
 
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