Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Its something I have been thinkning about with the ongoing Brexit situtation.

I personally have always felt closer to the US - maybe its the shared language or culture but it has always seemed more familiar and understandable.

I like plenty of European things but despite the geographical reality its always seemed much more foreign - that could mean exotic - like my interest in Japanese culture, martial arts, history and language.

Does anyone else feel the same or indeed the opposite?

Just pondering really.

Yes, I absolutely feel European. I have felt strongly European ever since I became politically aware. I strongly remember the introduction of the Euro in my country and seeing the coins from other countries and feeling part of something much bigger.

In school we learn Irish and English, and then a third european language. You can't get into Uni without the three. So everyone is at least aware of other languages and has learned at least 1 european one in school.

I live in Germany now, but I was a very committed European before I ever made the move.

I've always found it strange (and annoying) over the years when British people talk about Europe as being foreign, or them not being part of Europe. It would be like Japanese people claiming they are not Asian.

Cool.

How do you feel about the US? Is your European feeling also cultural?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its something I have been thinkning about with the ongoing Brexit situtation.

I personally have always felt closer to the US - maybe its the shared language or culture but it has always seemed more familiar and understandable.

It probably has more to do with the fact that the UK media has a heavy bias for the USA and reports very little on what happens in Europe in comparison. As a result the UK can feel closer to the USA because we just hear about the USA a lot lot more than any other country. The shared language does also make casual awareness easier, but don't forget most European countries learn English as a second language, so its not that huge a divide.

I definitely feel European.
I also feel Crimean, Russian and Dutch. Unsurprisingly, those are the identities I grew up with. I have never felt Ukrainian, despite having lived there for a good part of my life (the Crimea was not a very Ukrainian part of Ukraine).
The US is definitely familiar, and I love US culture, but there is too much about it that is very different from Europe to make me feel close to it.
I also lived in England and Scotland for a bit, and to me Britain definitely feels closer to Europe than to the US. I mean, it is sorta in-between, but the way people think and interact with each other feels closer to Europe. Then again, I am getting all of my knowledge of the US from pop culture, the internet and the news, so my view of the US may be a little off. I have never actually been to the US, even though I have family over there.

I guess it helps if you speak the language. I speak Russian, English, French and German (and Dutch), which is all the major languages of Europe. I can talk to almost everyone in Europe. That definitely helps with a European feeling. I imagine there is also a big difference between people who have grown up moving between different countries and those who have lived their entire life in only one country.

I feel European. I love est europe, Germany, while being french. All of us we share some basic ways of thinking, live close to one another, and it is absolutly a waste that most europeans don't actually show any interests for their neighbours.

The feeling of being truly european, of imagining an european mother over our nations, and thus to have our interests converge, is not widespread enough: poeple either hate europe or mostly can't be bother to even think about it.

I feel European before everything, french, but european, and I wish Europe would emancipate from the US and China who have such an influence, while we don't want to defend our interests, by building its forces in every sectors, be it economy, military, technology and by becoming a federal state. I regard Europe as a wonderful place even if we are not perfect, for us europeans, europe should always prevail when it comes to politics: that the nuclear submarines of my country should be bought by the US, so that we can no longer maintain them on our own, is for exampke not acceptable and should never have been.

However english is not in my opinion an actual gateway - it invades other languages, and it is not even the most actually widespread one as far as cultures -and will be even less with britain leaving-. German and French are number ones for the matter, but we should be able to learn next to any of european languages, not just that english.

I follow the Général de Gaulle who never wanted the british to join -too american, and I'll be entirely honest, I'm glad they're leaving. I don't know how that'll turn out for them, but they have contributed such a great deal to freeze the european construction by even more blocking what we french had already and stupidly made fail- european defense, that would bring a whole range of shared responsibilities for every country- and have it become a mere economic thing. On the other hand he wanted to try and built cooperation with our Russian neighbour, but the lack of will from both Europe to tell the US off and commit to actual discussions is killing it.

Maybe it's a Scottish thing(Auld Alliance and all that) but frankly I feel more European than British, nevermind how it relates to America which is and always has been a very one-sided "relationship" at least politically.

I have a laundry list of problems with the EU, but identity was never one of them. Then again, we're all coloured by our experiences, and mine were holidays in France as a kid where a token effort at speaking the language and "Ecosse" were sufficient to get a warm and friendly welcome, while holidays down to visit family in England(in the late 90's mind) was an endless procession of "LOL Jock" nonsense about kilts and haggis and did we have running water and indoor toilets, off everybody from friends of said family to random bus drivers and newsagents, so it's possible I'm a bit biased

I always found the whole "island nation, stiff upper lip, land of hope & glory" stuff pretty naff anyway of course, while a lot of folk seem to put genuine stock in the idea that Britain is somehow unique and special and different, not like them foreign savages from "the continent" eh wot wot. I put it down to cultural leftovers from the various propaganda campaigns conducted over the centuries by the monarchy to get the proles fired up to go and fight some war of plunder or pride, as well as the national mythologising that went on in the wake of WW2.

Some good points - I must admit gave up on the BBC as primary news some time ago - tend to flick between Al Jezera, Sky and RT...

I imagine there is also a big difference between people who have grown up moving between different countries and those who have lived their entire life in only one country.

Yeah thats true - only been to Europe once, never felt the need to go again. I speak a bit of German and more Japanese but seldom use.

Mr Morden: You live in Europe.

I have a pretty strong connection to America as well - of course. They are the English language cultural juggernaught. I grew up reading American comic books, watching hollywood movies and old sitcoms. I love Dungeons and Dragons and so on.

So I am fond of America. But my values are very much not American values. I am a collectivist, a statist, and staunchly non-interventionist. I do not believe in unrestricted individual freedom and see the "American Dream" as a con to keep the middle and working classes from uniting against those who exploit us.

Definitely nowadays, with what is happening in the US, and frankly from about the time of the invasion of Iraq, I have felt more distant from America, more suspicious and critical of it's role in the world, and more in favour of a federal Europe.

As a scot I am scottish first, British second then European, although I like Europe and wish to remAin part of the EU, I feel there is a huge gulf between their points of view and interests and ours.
I do feel our interests are more inline with the US, although not at present due to their current leadership.

I won't explain why as this is not a political discussion thread.

What does it mean to feel European? What are the subjects that would prompt (meant in a positive way) such feelings and thoughts inside of someone?

I definitely feel European. My experience with the US (which I like a lot BTW), is that although we have a shared language, our cultures are actually much more different than compared to other European nations; social welfare, healthcare, environmental attitudes and relationships to the rest of the world are substantially different.

I’d be curious to hear what some of the Canadian posters have to say; I haven’t spent much time there, but I get the impression that they are much closer to European values.

In a word, no.

Kinda yes but I also feel like an earthling too. This quote explains it better than I could:

You develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do something about it. From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that, you son of a bitch."

— Mitchell on seeing the Earth from the Moon

As I'm from Poland, I find it very hard to feel European, our history is just too messed up. I'm old enough to have a childhood under the soviet occupation, then high school and first love in a fully sovereign state that just regained independency after 50 years and now adulthood in an outer and largely disregarded province of "bigger Europe". After such rollercoaster and in times of Brexit and one European structural crisis after another it is really unnatural for me to have personal belief in any lasting continuity. From where I stand EU is just a "passing fancy" and will eventually give way to something entirely different - that instability of the state runs very deep in my generation, but is significantly different in newer ones.

Culturally, our history also makes any kind of identification very hard - we still struggle to regain our own cultural integrity after Partitions and soviet era. Ask a person from Warsaw, Cracow, Gdańsk, Poznań and Wrocław about history of Poland and everyone will tell you something largely or even entirely different. With such history it is only natural, that feeling european comes second to feeling polish.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
However english is not in my opinion an actual gateway - it invades other languages, and it is not even the most actually widespread one as far as cultures -and will be even less with britain leaving-. German and French are number ones for the matter, but we should be able to learn next to any of european languages, not just that english.

French Speaking Countries: 31
English Speaking Countries: 61 (what I counted, so might not be exact)
German Speaking Countries: 6

Looks like more countries have English as their official language than French or German so I don't know what you're talking about, unless you mean Europe only but your post doesn't make that clear (you just say cultures which in that case your statement is clearly untrue), because from a

global perspective that statement is not correct more people, more countries speak English (1.12 billion people) over French (284.9 million) and German (132.0 million).

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_entities_where_French_is_an_official_language
https://www.myenglishpages.com/site_php_files/reading-english-speaking-countries.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_entities_where_German_is_an_official_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers

 Da Boss wrote:
Mr Morden: You live in Europe.

I have a pretty strong connection to America as well - of course. They are the English language cultural juggernaught. I grew up reading American comic books, watching hollywood movies and old sitcoms. I love Dungeons and Dragons and so on.

So I am fond of America. But my values are very much not American values. I am a collectivist, a statist, and staunchly non-interventionist. I do not believe in unrestricted individual freedom and see the "American Dream" as a con to keep the middle and working classes from uniting against those who exploit us.

Definitely nowadays, with what is happening in the US, and frankly from about the time of the invasion of Iraq, I have felt more distant from America, more suspicious and critical of it's role in the world, and more in favour of a federal Europe.

Culture and Politics are related but different - There are definately powerful European figures with similar views to the current president of the US

Out of interest do you conisder all of Europe as European or only the EU, for instance is Russia European? It is there geographically but like others not a member of the EU?

I feel European before everything, french, but european, and I wish Europe would emancipate from the US and China who have such an influence, while we don't want to defend our interests, by building its forces in every sectors, be it economy, military, technology and by becoming a federal state. I regard Europe as a wonderful place even if we are not perfect, for us europeans, europe should always prevail when it comes to politics: that the nuclear submarines of my country should be bought by the US, so that we can no longer maintain them on our own, is for exampke not acceptable and should never have been.

Most European nations have relyed on the US and NATO - mainly the former, to defend them and keep the peace for mroe than 60 years - I kinda get the frustration that the US feels that perhaps the other rich nations of the West should pull their weight more? France has been notably doing so much more in recent years in conjunction mainly with the US and UK although the results are variable.

However english is not in my opinion an actual gateway - it invades other languages, and it is not even the most actually widespread one as far as cultures -and will be even less with britain leaving-. German and French are number ones for the matter, but we should be able to learn next to any of european languages, not just that english.

Isn't the old adage that French is the langauge of Diplomacy and English that of commerce? English is a hugely useful language in the wider world - most of the powerful nations of the world do have it as at least a secnd langauge - that may change?

I follow the Général de Gaulle who never wanted the british to join -too american, and I'll be entirely honest, I'm glad they're leaving. I don't know how that'll turn out for them, but they have contributed such a great deal to freeze the european construction by even more blocking what we french had already and stupidly made fail- european defense, that would bring a whole range of shared responsibilities for every country- and have it become a mere economic thing. On the other hand he wanted to try and built cooperation with our Russian neighbour, but the lack of will from both Europe to tell the US off and commit to actual discussions is killing it.

Russia is a often used bogeyman - although they are often just doing the usual things that powerful nations do. Didn;t De Gaulle oppose a trurly Federal Europe and his issues with uk and USa in the Second World War are well known.

Yes and no. I don’t feel any particular connection to any anthropological divisions of the world. I feel European in the sense that I happened to be born in Europe, and I feel a familiarity with and am comfortable within dominant strains of European cultural motifs, but I don’t feel attached to it as a sociopolitical entity - the same goes for the UK and Scotland, though.

Scot living in England here, and I manage to feel Scottish, British and European.

I am Danish.

I feel more Nordic, than I feel European.

I was brought up in a household with strong ties to the military and great national pride, I was always brought up as being British and I still refer to myself as British today.

I don't have any real kinship with Europe, I've been all over Britain and wherever I go I feel at home but no matter where I go in Europe, it only ever feels like I'm on holiday. I could never see myself living in Europe and calling myself a European.

mrhappyface: You are european though. Are Japanese people not Asian?

I'm English.
Europe can shove itself.
I have zero connection to Europe and cannot stand some foreign power creating our rules and demanding money for the 'privilege' while not giving a gak about bigger issues like immigration.
Can't wait til Brexit actually kicks in and we can leave hitlers dream

This is so weird. It is a literal denial of reality.

 Da Boss wrote:
mrhappyface: You are european though. Are Japanese people not Asian?

The discussion is about a unified culture. There is no unified Asian culture, or a unified African culture, or North American culture. While Europe is in a unique position that one does seem to be growing, you certainly don't get to tell other people whether or not they are a part of it.

...but like, Britain is just undeniably a European country. It is in Europe. It's a very weird thing to say that you are not European when your country is obviously in Europe. I find it fascinating, this animosity and weird hostility.

 Da Boss wrote:
...but like, Britain is just undeniably a European country. It is in Europe. It's a very weird thing to say that you are not European when your country is obviously in Europe. I find it fascinating, this animosity and weird hostility.

Like DJones just said, it's not a matter of whether geographically we're European, it's whether we're culturally European. Mainland Europe has a very unified culture under the EU but Britain has always been an outsider to that culture.

 Da Boss wrote:
...but like, Britain is just undeniably a European country. It is in Europe. It's a very weird thing to say that you are not European when your country is obviously in Europe. I find it fascinating, this animosity and weird hostility.

The question wasn't are you European it was do you feel European.
And I certainly do not and never want to.

Mainland Europe and Ireland, please. We very much consider ourselves European.

I think you guys are more culturally European than American, but that is an outsider's perspective. You have much more in common with Germany or France than you do with America, outside of language.

Why the animosity though? What is so awful about Europe?

I don't really feel European as such, what happens "on the continent" has always felt like a separate entity.