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Notes:
It is for ITC tourneys. Initially I had all units in a brigade, but then read that Cult Obsessions had to be in separate detachments if they're to remain useful.
13 CPs - with 1 spent on the succubus's Blade Glaive (I could be okay with not spending for that).
Input from dakka:
a. Have I missed anything cult or obsession - wise?
b. How best, if at all, to use the WWP? I have the points and models to use transports to deliver the TrueBlasters, but I know I'm going to bleed Death by a Thousand Cuts ITC secondary mission points. I could field another unit of scourges or a Razorwing JF, if I remove venoms in favor of using CPs on WWP, but I think as the list is, is better.
c. 26 blast/dark lances (D6) weapons and speed/range to use them. I could increase to a few more, by switching Raider Disint Cans to DLs, but I think anti-horde is still needed for balance (even though more Imp Knights heading into the meta).
Cult of the Cursed blade
Succubus - Relic Blood Glaive (maybe another CP for her to have a Warlord trait, extra attack ... ?)
Succubus
x9 Wyches - Shardnet & Impaler, blast pistol - 87 points
x9 Wyches - Shardnet & Impaler, blast pistol
x9 Wyches - Shardnet & Impaler, blast pistol
Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow - 81 points each
Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow
Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow
x5 Scourges - Heat Lances x4 - 108
x5 Scourges - Heat Lances x4 - 108
1995 points**
I have edited a mistake in points on the Trueblasters ... far pricier than I thought, meaning one of them out, for a 3rd unit of Scourges ... far more cost effective and one can get rid of a venom.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/01 06:36:54
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
I would drop a squad of scourges to bring 2 more venoms for your warriors. The scourges could benefit from having shredders over heatlances to help with some anti-infantry since you have plenty of blasters and dark lances. You could try bringing shredders in a squad of trueborn as well.
Very solid list. Only unit I would think about adding is Reavers. It might even be worth dropping a ravager for reavers.
Helvost wrote: I would drop a squad of scourges to bring 2 more venoms for your warriors. The scourges could benefit from having shredders over heatlances to help with some anti-infantry since you have plenty of blasters and dark lances. You could try bringing shredders in a squad of trueborn as well.
A good suggestion. However, I disagree on "plenty of blasters and DLs". Except for cultists, poxies & zombies, there isn't much horde. Cultist Tide of Traitors is nixed by Agents of Vect. I think with Disintegrators on the raiders, what shooting there is from the 3 venoms, and 27 girls, I have anti-I in hand.
I see more multi-wound models in the game, Disgusting Resilience and such, so packing so many D6 high Str guns is good, in addition, no kidding, it's a psychological edge that freaks out opponents. I have never been one for head games in 40k, but the sheer intimidation of ... more than twenty one S8, -4, D6 guns ... hearing, "FML" from the imperial knight player is sweet, sweet music. It's a good tune when AdMech players say it, too.
Actually, I just reread what Haywire Blasters do and I am going to switch one unit of scourges to 4 of those, cheaper than Heat Lances, too! I am angling to combat more vehicles in my future, Knights and their little buddies (I am calling it first! They're gonna be called "Gilligans!")
Helvost wrote: Very solid list. Only unit I would think about adding is Reavers. It might even be worth dropping a ravager for reavers.
Thank you.
Reavers did exist in my first considerations, but I think scourges do better for a Deep Strike sucker punch, and the whole army is mobile enough without jetbikes. Also, I'd end up proxying Aeldari JBs for them.
Lastly, I believe that in Matched Play (and ITC), no more than 3 data sheets may be used, so while I own 2 more venoms ... sigh. I can't use 'em.
Something else I have just found and need clarification on:
1. The Combat Drugs rules are specific on rolling, with luck, and maybe gaining the same bonus for more than one unit. But once one picks, you're stuck just parsing out +1S to one set of girls until you somehow fill in 6 units. What I wanna know is, does the Warlord trait Stimm Adict bypass the Combat Drug section?
2. Can wyches from one detachment use raiders/transports from another detachment? Kabs, too?
2.1 Is there a FAQ that specifies needing KEYWORDs for that? Which one? Link, please.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Billboard wrote: 1. I don't see anything that indicates the trait bypasses the combat drugs section.
2. Yes.
2.1 No FAQ, it's in the rules. There is a small section for transports.
Thanks for the replies! They need to be cited if they are going to be helpful when showing a TO or opponent. While I could say, "Dude, dakka poster Billboard said it was cool,", would *you* accept that on something unclear, or would you want to see it in a GW ruling? 1. Often, the flow is Main Rule, then a specified rule supersedes it. I don't see anything that makes the case the other way, other than what I just stated. Perhaps someone has used a list and posted, like in a tourney, therefore being used legally?
2. Thanks for the "yes", but citing why will help when I try to convince an opponent, like pointing at a rule. Simply saying, "Yes" on dakka won't be enough for the next player across the table. "Dude, dakka poster Billboard said it was cool."
Perhaps rewording my question:
2. Can wyches from one detachment, and a Wych Cult Obsession, use raiders/transports from another detachment's Kabal Obsession? Vice Cersa for Kabs, too?
3. I have read and reread the transport section. It states nothing about KEYWORDs, unlike the Ynanari FAQ which does mention, that though Kabalites and Dire Avengers pick up YNNARI as a keyword, they can't use each others' transports. There's similar wording for Blood Angels and SMs and their rhinos. It's those FAQs that make me wonder ... hmm, cult obsessions aren't keywords ... I think .
I think I will take this to YMDC.
@Triktock
Venoms: Yeah, I forgot the 10 points for the SpintCan. It's in there in my initial calculations. srsly, thanks though.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Headlss wrote: Unfortunately the Blood glave is Red grief succubus only. Looks like you have it with cursed blade.
GAAAH!! Damn it. There goes my S8 girl! Stupid fine print. Nice catch. That simplifies working out whether I want or need Stimm Addict (and blowing through lots of CPs to get there). S8 is the magic number, was, with Imp Knights heading into the meta more heavily, but since it'd be a whole wych cult change just to get her there (well, no +1S so only 7 ... ).
Headlss wrote: And you are taking blast pistols with your Archons? The index entry lets them take blasters for and extra 6 inches of range.
Yeah, the index archon is blaster capable, but, since he's going to be a h2h specialist, the pistol is for character sniping in h2h. This or that.
Headlss wrote: Final point. The reavers are for interrupting your opponents plan. Not a sucker punch, its pulling your opponents jersey over his head.
Agreed, but not only do I want the jersey pulled over his head, I want that head staved in, really pulpy. The jersey can block the blood spatter. Can't get it all over our swanky Obsidian Veil (Dolce & Gabbana, or more likely, Armani, ).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/02 04:59:35
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Headlss wrote: So are you going to switch to red greif? The regular glave is only 1 damage. Not suitable for hunting knights.
Also what are you doing for drugs?
I like the look of the list. Let me know how it goes.
I will stick with Cursed Blade, +1S & limited Morale penalty. The other two don't seem to work out so good. Even with Hammer and Anvil deployment, the odds are thin of girls not making a 2nd turn charge. And, PfP *gives* girls a reroll charge by turn 2, so Cult of Red Grief only adds advancing and charging. Meh. GW ought to have worked out benefits that aren't duplicated.
So, Strife and an extra attack ... only when charged, charging, etc. When I work out the odds of GEq and MEq wounds/deaths, a stronger set of girls seems to be better.
9 girls swing 27 times. 18 will hit, maybe 20 or 21 with a succubus's reroll s presence. Out of 20 hits:
10 wounds on GEqs, because of wych S3. That'll be ~7 guardsmen, 6 or 7 poxies, 8 cultists dead.
3 to 4 wounds on MEqs, because of wych S3. That's one, maybe two dead power armored dorks with bad armor saves.
With Cursed Blade, at S4:
9 girls swing 18 times. 12 will hit, 13 or 14 with a succubus's bubble.
~10 wounds on those GEqs, and the math works out the same.
However, S4 will yield 5 wounds on MEqs.
Not much difference, but consider how that plays out once the targets are T5, 6 or 7.
That's where I answer your second question: One group of girls will definitely have +1S (so that crew will be S5). The other two units will be +1A (hordes!) and +1WS. The succubus will pick up extra Toughness, as neither extra range nor WS helps (ineffective in 8e for her). I have yet to learn the fine finesse of not leaving my character out front and over killing a unit on my turn, leaving her the forward target, giving my opponent the option of sniping her out, so extra T will help her out.
As far as the list goes, I have just got the Battle Brothers rules figured out, so adding a Farseer with Doom just became *really* attractive, and I'm going to be dithering on what to toss to make room for a Patrol detachment of regular elves. If I played a game right now, a pure drunkari, err, drukhari, will look like this:
Black Heart - Battalion
Archon - huskB and blast pistol - Obsidian Veil, oops, Flayed Skull, not Black Heart, so that relic is out , warlord, Writ of Living Muse
Archon - huskB and blast pistol. Helm of Spite
x5 Kab Warriors - raider with disint. cannon & s-prow
x5 Kab Warriors - raider with disint. cannon & s-prow
x5 Kab Warriors - raider with disint. cannon & s-prow
x5 Trueborn - x4 blasters - naked venom
x5 Trueborn - x4 blasters - naked venom
x3 Ravagers - DLs & s-prow
1967 points. Where to spend 33 more? More blast pistols, no doubt.
I played an incomplete game Saturday with this list versus Cap't Laertes (sp?), Sammy the Land Speeder, many scouts, 6 pack of Inceptors, and a 20 pack of Death Co. jumpers. He killed the 3 venoms, 2 raiders, 1 rav, 1 succubus, and 1 unit of wyches & scourges. I had the Death Co. down to 2 dudes, his Warlord dead, Inceptors dead, the other speeder dead, Sammy down to 2 wounds. We had to call the game for a personal thing, but he ran out of CPs limiting his mobility with Wings of Fire (? Where he gets to pick up jumpers and reDeep Strike them). He had one corner of the table. I had 4 or 5 of the 6 objectives. We agreed that the remaining scouts would pose no threat, and his remaining 4 or 5 jumpers (one Thunder Hammer Captain, Apothecary, too) were going to get tied down by the 2 wych units with Shardnets and my 3 characters were going to wear them down, if the 2 ravs, scourges and 6 TrueBlasters didn't smoke 'em first. It was only Turn 3.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/02 19:13:35
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
I've got 6 small point games in with a very similar list. Power level 35. Or a couple games at 1500 points, that list was all my dark elfs and a borrowed wraith knight.
I run obsidian viel for the extra 6 inches on the blaster, but it ends up coming it handy for the splinter rifles too.
I run cult of strife. I keep thinking I should run cursed blade, but I use Reavers and they don't benifit from the strenght. I will try Red griefe soon. Just as a test. I have had 1 game I couldn't get a T1 chagre off, and I really want the blood glaive. I run my Sucubus with 9 attacks and exploding 6s (drugs, obsession, artifact, and warlord trait) and still only end up doing a couple wounds. I want multi damage, and I might be willing to give up 20 attacks (between the wythchs and the reavers) to get it.
Headlss wrote: I've got 6 small point games in with a very similar list. Power level 35. Or a couple games at 1500 points, that list was all my dark elfs and a borrowed wraith knight.
I run obsidian viel for the extra 6 inches on the blaster, but it ends up coming it handy for the splinter rifles too.
I run cult of strife. I keep thinking I should run cursed blade, but I use Reavers and they don't benifit from the strenght. I will try Red griefe soon. Just as a test. I have had 1 game I couldn't get a T1 chagre off, and I really want the blood glaive. I run my Sucubus with 9 attacks and exploding 6s (drugs, obsession, artifact, and warlord trait) and still only end up doing a couple wounds. I want multi damage, and I might be willing to give up 20 attacks (between the wythchs and the reavers) to get it.
1500 might be too thin to work in a patrol detachment with 2 battalions, but I think that might be a way to go. 1 succubus and her girls, all Red Grief, then another detachment that is Cursed Blade for several units of strong girls.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Do you ever do battle reports? I really want to hear how you do.
Even just a quit summary of your games would be cool.
I had a small game on monday against Khorn Marines. We lined up facing each other and ran straight at eachother. Seriously we only used 1 panel (2 feet wide) I won, I think becuase I let him go first and come to me, all my shooters were in rapid fire range. And the Sucubus could assult flamer bikes from out of LOS.
Headlss wrote: Do you ever do battle reports? I really want to hear how you do.
Even just a quit summary of your games would be cool.
I had a small game on monday against Khorn Marines. We lined up facing each other and ran straight at eachother. Seriously we only used 1 panel (2 feet wide) I won, I think becuase I let him go first and come to me, all my shooters were in rapid fire range. And the Sucubus could assult flamer bikes from out of LOS.
Back in say, 5e, I posted static pix with summaries. Too much work. FrontLineGaming said that for their far quicker, live action batreps, it took 9 to 10 hours of post editing to make one BatRep.
Still, I will give you last night's game summary:
Opponent was Death Guard.
Typhus, 3 fowl blightspawn, 1 Bell-boy (noxious blightbringer), 2 or 3 sorcerers, a no-upgrade chaos lord and a kitted out DP with SupArmor, 4+AnnoyingResilient
x3 Foetid Bloat Drones (hatehateHATE )
Big pack of DG infantry with 2 Blight Launchers
2x20 poxies, 3x10 cultists
Blunt Spear deployment (#5 in the RB). ITC mission #3. He deployed with poxies screening, a set of cultists in each flank to take objectives in the later game and the 3rd set to take the middle. I deployed more heavily on the right to swing around with wyches and most of my fire power, except the ravs & Writ of Living Muse archon stayed mid, deep my line to work on the FoetidBDs. I might've been better off with him going with the venoms, TrueBlasters and eventual support of Deep Striking scourges.
Round 1
Drukhari: shooting netted 2 wounds on a FBD from the ravs. The other side thinned some cultists into a Morale Save that I thought would total them; it didn't. And thinned the main poxy line.
DG: Some shooting, mostly at my raiders. Neither of us scored First Strike (an ITC secondary mission goal).
Round 2
Druk - I forget to Deep Strike the scourges. Ravs work on the bloat drone some more and get it to 2 wounds left. Wyches', raiders, venoms work on finishing the cultists on my right, and the other FBD. Maybe a couple wounds on it. Then, in order, I have the raiders, then wyches, & 1 succubus assault a sorceror, FowlBlightSpawn and the poxies. I really concentrate on killing the characters, but his saves were good.
DG: With most of my stuff locked in a foot long sized combat, opponent shot at the venoms, not doing much. His DP charged in and ate a couple girls, and Typhus got there, too. The succubus, let's call her T, as she got the +1T combat drug, she had hella great saves, making inuvlns, and then rolling a lot of s for Typhus's farty cloud of Mortal Wounds.
Round 3
Secondary missions in ITC help score points. I picked Recon, but promptly forgot to put the scourges where I needed them in that table qurater. Ultimately, I never scored one of those 4 points. I ought to have chosen Head Hunter, which I easily would have score the 4 possible points, as I bagged enough characters. This is an example of while I can talk about lists, I still lose, because I get "deer in the headlights" and then I don't do the things I need to do to win.
I remembered the scourges. I finally bagged a FBD with the ravs. Now, I forget when his DP was no longer in combat or how, but I was able to position the scourges on my far right, and his DP was the nearest model, so I happily opened up with 8 heat lances, 8 blasters (trueborn), their venoms and the raiders, which Fell Back, and could shoot DistinCans are the DP. Holy gods, did he make save after AnnoyinglyResil and danged save. I put a few wounds on him. I assault him with the other archon. Nuthin'.
The wyches and succubus worked on the sorcerer and the poxies. Typhus and they killed a couple girls, I softened up the ridiculous sorcerer and T the succubus continued to Not-Die.
DG: His line is moving up center table and I realize that I'm likely to not hold my left at all. His other FBD on my left kills my Obsec Kabs (I thought he'd target the ravs). He softens up the venoms with the DeathGuard as they're finally in better range to shoot. I kept them there for an objective and shooting the DP. He does move one FowlBSpawn over to eventually deal with the unmolested scourges. After smiting the archon, the DP fails to hurt my archon because of boss ShadowField saves. I finally kill the wyches' sorcerer, and the rest of the poxies.
Note: He did try to Fall Back once or twice in all this, but the Shardnets held them in time.
Round 4:
I Fall Back my DP fighting archon. I Fall back the remaining wyches (there is one unit left, iirc) and 2 succubi. T, I embarked on a nearby raider (legal, right?) and the archon, too. I dunno why I had the other succubus head the other direction, maybe to go after cultists on middle Objective. I decided to use strategem Cruel Decption to get her back into combat, but then changed my mind and had the 5 wyches go after the DP, but after shooting: Shooting the DP got him down to 1 wound.
8 blasters, 2 blast pistols, heat lances, both venoms' shooting, the raider's distincan. Even the wyches shot him with their guns. Maybe 5 or 6 wounds got through. That's when I decided the wyches would assault him instead of the succubus. I have a raider go in, too (the one with the Fallen Back archon and succubus T). They failed to kill him in h2h. I remember seeing 2 FBDs on their last legs, the DP and the poxies, and knowing if odds/dice had been reasonable, I could take half the objectives and be rid of 3 very rough units, his DP and the FBDs. But they stayed alive.
I'm not sure, but I think by now, he lost a sorcerer, Bell Boy, 2 FowlBSs (all 3?), 1 unit of cultists and 1 group of poxies.
DG:
He shoots and kills a venom ... and maybe the other. Might've been a turn apart, I don't remember. Another raider. the scourges with Haywire make good saves (in a ruin) and lose three guys, instead of dying wholly. His midline poxies are in my backfield now, they get to the my middle objective and start eating kabbies; I plan to counter with the ravs (not great versus poxies ) and the warlord archon.
H2h: the wyches die, the raider dies, and horribly, though T had survived to this point with 1 wound left, I rolled a 1 for disembarking, and took her out instead of the archon; his ShadowField save and D3 huskblade being more of a threat to the DP. I had no CPs left to reroll it. Small satisfaction in knowing that opponent didn't directly kill her.
Round 5
Druk:
There are many characters for me to kill with Trublasters and scourges on my right, but I need some miracles. The DP dies, but it does take too much shooting. For certain the last of the FBDs die, and I crowd a Fowl BSpawn of his on my RH objective. They shoot other things and assault him. A rav slingshot/assaults a sorcerer, and my other two ravs and archon try to dislodge the poxies in my front grill. None of the assault pan out, but I have an objective for a point.
Somewhere in here, I had the archon re-assault the DP, but he wiffed ... and then his ShadowField failed, and he dies to Maelific Claws.
DG:
By now, it's 10:45 in the evening and the game store will be closing, so Turn 6 isn't going to happen, though in ITC missons, Turn 6 is supposed to. My opponent gets his DG into the combat where I hold one out of 4 objectives, and being a 10+ pile of Obsec dudes, I know that objective and set of elves, 2 trueborn units, and 2 units of scourges will be gone, and though, with odds, my archon and 2 ravs could clear ... 8 or 10 poxies of the my front objective, I've lost on points. We're done, 25 to 14.
Even if I'd gone with Head Hunter instead of Recon, it would have been 18 to 25.
I lost on:
a. deployment and target priority, which is where I usually make crucial mistakes. I make ineffective decisions a lot
b. forgetting scourges for a turn
c. forgetting a round of Trueblaster shooting (cuz, they're inside the venoms and I forgot ). FBDs need to die first because of their speed and destructive power, but it took too long and too much fire power.
d. Opponent only used strategem Cloud of Flies (make a DG infantry unshootable unless it's the closet target) once, as I targeted other things. I believe now, I ought to have used Agents of Vect to stop that, and then targeted them with ravs, raiders and venoms. I never tried to hurt the DG, but they were walking unchallenged and kicking butt those last few turns.
e. FBDs and the DP were resiliently tough. When *I* played DG last autumn, would *my* Nurgle DP last like this guy? Heck, no. It took fire too much fire power to kill them.
Headlss:
Learn from my mistakes! I won't.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Headlss wrote: Just played a pl 35 game against Dark eldar. We didn't share a single model. He had covens amd merc's I had Cults and Kabals.
His Talos was stupidly hard to kill. The Homunculus was worse. But I don't think he had enough dice to roll.
So, you won?
I had a go at, what my opponent stated, as a less-than effective Necron list:
Overlord (toys?)
Cryptek
'nother Lord
3x10 Immortals, 2x5 Immortals
3x5 Deathmarks
x2 Something arks. Gun boats with 3 settings on their main gun
3x3 scarabs
Spider
He deployed center, with all 3 big Immortal units lined up in ranks, which handed me the wych-scrum. Going first, I managed to bang one Ark (he rolled badly and my dice were hot) & 1 entire unit of Immortals. He did little more than kill a raider and get a second raider down to 1 wound ... my 4+ armor, Invulns and Inured to Suffering were rolling damned hot.
I nailed the 2nd Something Ark by Turn 2, with scourges' help. Though my 3 scourge units Deep Struck, the Death Marks managed to kill only one per unit. I assaulted with the girls, succubi, and an archon. Got 1 unit of Imms down to one guy (so close!) and the other unit to like 5 or 6. I had a wych group on the Overlord (warlord). The Shardnets held, and I used Agents of Vect to advantage. He brought back 2 or so Imms through Res-protocols.
I had so much wrapped up with Shardents (none Escaped), he had little to shoot. His Deathmarks were not in LOS to shoot the one free archon and the others were in h2h.
My Turn 3 killed the cryptek, Warlor/Overlord, Spider, all the scarabs & remaining small and big unit of immortals. He had one unit in my back field and a few on the center objective.
He called the game by Turn 3's end. He had some death marks, a character (not the Warlord, nor c'tek) and a hand full of Immortals. He had killed 2 raiders, half a crew of girls, & 5 kabs.
Everything I needed to happen, did. I think he lost on deployment (the scarabs were spread out instead of altogether, and his 3 Immortals units were in one, yummy, lump, instead of spread apart), target selection (he realized his Death Marks ought to have gone after my characters) and his dice did poop on him.
Overall, not a great exercise, but a good run on seeing how Stuff-Should-Work. I was also smart enough to remember to skip Prizes from the Dark City and not have the Helm of Spite. I just went with Writ of the Living Muse's bubble, with the ravagers, is clutch.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/09 16:18:16
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Yeah if he put a big group of infantry together for you thats just where you want the girls to be. He was probably clustering up to get overlapping buffs from his comanders.
Any losses to overwatch on the charge?
I did win my game. I put a synopsis up in the replay tread. But I couldn't attach pictures.
Yeah if he put a big group of infantry together for you thats just where you want the girls to be. He was probably clustering up to get overlapping buffs from his comanders.
One raider got smoked on Overwatch. The exploding tesla rule is nutsy!
The 2 remaining raiders got pounded in soaking up the Overwatch for the girls. Iirc, he generated 9 hits and wounds for the second charging raider and ... maybe 12+ for the first. It was my hot saves that kept the 2nd one from failing. That raider was at 1 wound left.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
I don't like taking overwatch on the girls. I don't mind it on the reavers, and if I think they arr going to eat some I will over dose them to T6. But the wytches, I try to find a bit of cover to block LOS.
Played again against the coven and merc army again. The Scourge are increadibly fragile. He did put 6 wounds on a Raider (which knocked it down a step on the damahe chart and cost me some needed dark lance hits in later turns) but I wiped them out again with out really meaning too. This time with a multi charge from reavers, against them and a talos.
I really like the reavers.
This was the first game I saw what venoms can really do. He only had two of them and each round he just picked one of my units of infantry to take off. It was bad.
I pulled it out, the fire base of warriors with archon support eventually popped the venoms and the Sucubus wore down the wracks and heamy. Heamy died to an exploding raider.
I think my Reavers get MVP most games. You don't have any. After you play your tournament I am interested to hear how the Scourges do. Then if they under perform I would suggest swaping them out for Reavers with blasters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/13 02:52:45
for me, i love using WWP with a veil archon and a squad of 20 warriors with 4 blasters. Yeah its 3 CPs, but you drop that bomb up near a couple of juicy targets, rerolling 1s on hits and wounds, and then if your opponent decimates (but doesnt kill) the squad in their turn, getting to fire all four blasters again with that stratagem, and then getting to fire the blasters AGAIN in your turn, that alone has won me games. with and without the archon there.
as for scourges, gotta use 'fire and fade' with them. i like shredders on them as theyre just solid and versatile.
also, and ive said this a few times, covens are great - wracks are straight up the best troop in the frickin game with the right coven - 9 points for 5 toughness, 4++, FNP, wounding on 4s that you can arm with -AP flamers and (using a strat) respawn near any table edge - denying VPs, and capturing objectives in late game? amazing. i love having a coven battalion bunch up in the middle of my deployment and then march up the field as a big group, demanding my opponent waste firepower on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, i love the relics - even if opp isnt using psykers, meaning no need for the amazing helm of spite, theres a bunch of great options, always worth taking 3 of them i reckon. with 13 CPs to start with, and labyrithine cunning getting you another several more to play with, its totally worth it IMO.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/17 06:13:55
Competitively speaking I think you list has a ways to go.
Trueborn with blasters are kinda meh when you can take a dissie ravager for less points.
Scourge themselves aren't very competitive and heat lances are probably the worst gun in codex.
IMO blast pistols are a waste of points even on succubus.
For me there are three different ways you can really juice up your lists.
1) Triple ravager, Venom spam, a couple flyers,
2) Kabal/Cult double batallion with triple ravagers
3) Coven/Kabal with talos or grots, and triple ravagers
To even further push the lists you would find a way to include Doom and Jinx.
Manfried wrote: Trueborn with blasters are kinda meh when you can take a dissie ravager for less points.
I disagree. Strongly. 9 dice from a dissie ravager can do 18 wounds max, whereas 4 blasters can do 24 points (there is that 5th dude, too). -4 AP versus the disCans' -3 AP. The Discan cost is 75% the points of the DLs, so the points balance in ratio of wounds capable equals out. Since Elite FOC is rarely filled, it totally makes sense to have S8, D6 guns go their, instead of filling Heavy Slots.
Against MEqs:
Disntegrator Cannons: 9 dice, 6 hit, 4 wound. 4 dead MEqs Blasters: 4 dice, 3 hit, all wound. 3 dead MEqs
Multiply by 3 to get better averages:
Dissies - 27 dice, 18 hit, 12 wound (based on S5vsT4) 10 dead SMs.
Blasters - 12 dice, 8 hit, 6 wound. 6 dead SMs
But, the blasters are for big targets, not dudes, like a DP, 'Fex, Rhino (other tanks & vehicles):
DisCan - 9 dice, 6 hit, 2 wound, and a tank takes, likely, 4 wounds.
Blasters: 4 dice, 3 hit, 2 wound (likely wound on 3s) - 7 wounds (two dice produces 3.5 each).
Multiply times 3 versus big targets
Dissies - 27 dice, 18 hit, 6 wound (based on S5vsT6). 10 wounds dealt. (cut in half for 4++)
Blasters - 12 dice, 8 hit, 5-6 wound. 3.5 x 5 or 6 ... 17 to 21 wounds (cut in half for 4++)
Given that Morty and Maggie, and Imp Knights exist heavily my meta, I'm sticking with blasters on Trueborn.
I played this army in 5e, almost unchanged in composition, and it worked 50%+ then.
Manfried wrote: Scourge themselves aren't very competitive and heat lances are probably the worst gun in codex.
Worst gun?
Manfried wrote: IMO blast pistols are a waste of points even on succubus.
They go h2h with characters, netting the screen or body guards ... watching TH Smash Captains die to a pistol shot is ... A Thing.
Manfried wrote: For me there are three different ways you can really juice up your lists.
1) Triple ravager, Venom spam, a couple flyers,
2) Kabal/Cult double batallion with triple ravagers
3) Coven/Kabal with talos or grots, and triple ravagers
Your recommendations here alter the list too much, and asks for models not owned:
1. 200 to 300 points of flyers eats a lot of points and I don't own flyer models.
2. The list is 2 battalions, just the 3 Ravs I own.
3. Talos or grots ... are radical changes that completely change the list.
Manfried wrote: To even further push the lists you would find a way to include Doom and Jinx
This I agree with, and can find room for a Patrol of rangers and a farseer. Maybe.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Lastly, I believe that in Matched Play (and ITC), no more than 3 data sheets may be used, so while I own 2 more venoms ... sigh. I can't use 'em.
Rule of three doesn't apply to troops and transports I thought?
You're correct, it does not apply to transports, however, I have been winning 4 out of the last 5 games, and the list is pretty tightly functioning lately. Thank you for the clarification.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Lastly, I believe that in Matched Play (and ITC), no more than 3 data sheets may be used, so while I own 2 more venoms ... sigh. I can't use 'em.
Rule of three doesn't apply to troops and transports I thought?
You're correct, it does not apply to transports, however, I have been winning 4 out of the last 5 games, and the list is pretty tightly functioning lately. Thank you for the clarification.
The list looks solid. I wasn't trying to imply that it wasn't. I only use 4 Venoms in my list, but I have craftsworld blended in for doom and jinx.
+ Troops [8 PL, 188pts] +
4x5x Kabalite Warriors: 1 Blaster, 4x spinter rifles
Ravager: Bladevanes, 3x Disintegrator cannon, Night Shield
Venom: Bladevanes, Flickerfield, Night Shield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon
I only hope I have enough DL/Dissy spam for the IK armies we'll be seeing...Thoughts on the list?
a. Instead of 4 Kab warrior units, I would have 3 troops and make the 4th Trueborn, putting your 4 blasters there, for concentrated fire power. They go in their same venom, but you're going to spend 10 more points per dork. Then you are not tempted to stick the kabs' fragile necks out for any one shot blaster nonsense, making them baby-sit objectives as they were meant to.
b. Venoms are super fragile, so I don't bother with the SplintCan upgrade.
c. Ravagers: If IKs are in your future, with Maggy and Morty too, I'd have the Ravs wtih DLs. Reasonably, 1 DL Rav will be able to punk a Daemon Prince more readily than a Dissie Rav.
Dissie - 9 shots, 6 hit, 2 will wound (S5 vs T6). So the DP maybe saves on 5++ once, and you do 2 points of damage.
DL - 3 shots, 2 hit, both wound (S8 vs. T6). The DP saves against one of them, maybe, but a D6 will average 3.5 wounds.
Triple the shooting:
Dissie - 27 shots, 18 hit, 6 will wound (S5 vs T6). DP saves of 5++ means you'll inflict the 8 points to kill, unless it's a Nurgle DP, who will get some Disgusting Resilience.
DL - 9 shots, 6 hits, 4 wound (S8 vs T6). DP 5++ makes one go away, and then you roll 3D6 for an average of 10 or 11 wounds. Even on a hot saving throw of 2 Invun saves, you're still likely to bring it within 1 wound of death. And then the kabs can spit at it.
DLs annihilate the big bad targets, as well as scoring Big Game Hunter far more readily, often an easily accomplished secondary mission.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
)
Craftworlds Eldar: 8500
Dark Eldar: 1000
Harlequins: 1000
Raven Guard: 1500
Tyranids: 1500
s presence. Out of 20 hits:
The other side thinned some cultists into a Morale Save that I thought would total them; it didn't. And thinned the main poxy line.
s for Typhus's farty cloud of Mortal Wounds.
). FBDs need to die first because of their speed and destructive power, but it took too long and too much fire power.
