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I’d love to see:

Mission clean up. Current missions are all over the place. A much more unified structure.

Weapon scaling. Flamer type and large blast weapons don’t scale enough for some of the large formations we see. I’m looking at you Flamers, Heavy Flamers, Demolisher Cannon, and your equivalents in other forces.

Complete CP rethink. From detachments, to stratagems, to when you can use them, to what they are used for, to what cost they have to what ones should be moved from CP to unit rules, or ones that should be army rules, to Battle forge. Put it all on the table and come up with some new ideas.

Game control. Something to combat some of the slow play. I want my 2K game to take about 2 hours for 2 reasonably proficient players.

Rewrite power levels. Change it so that instead of the implication being that you can get free upgrades, to be that if you spend the power level points to get a unit, it’s the top end. If you spend the 10 PL for a tactical squad of marines, that gives you 10 marines, with a Lascannon, and a Plasma gun, and a Sarge with a Power fist. If you choose you can drop the P-Fist to a –Psword of Chain sword, or the lascannon to a plasma, ml, or Heavy Bolter, and the Plasma gun to a Melta, or a Flamer, all at no cost. It would fix a lot of the issues with PL that people dislike.

Rules on Soup. Be that clarifying that A faction is Eldar, Tau, Imperium, Ork, Nids, or Chaos, or that Some percentage of your force comes from Allies and and counts as Allies, and most importantly how that fits with CP and Stratagems, or that you don’t get some bonus, whatever can be done.

Well...We are technically playing a beta game right now. They are even coming out with beta rules...

Technically we aren't even playing 8.0 yet. We are playing 8th Ed beta version 1.3.4 or something.

Things I'd like to see?

CP's have to be used by the detachment OR a detachment in your army that has the same faction keyword. (Example 2 IK house Raven detachments could share CP with each other - BUT 5 CP from IG ballalion could not.
(This would effectively kill command point batteries) Does anyone honestly thing this is a good idea? Not me.

Psychic denial range should be determined by the target of the spell. Example (Farseer casts doom on repulsor 6 inches away but is 25" from the librarian - libby could deny that because the repulsor is 6 inches away)

Remove turn 1 DS restrictions. Just keep the beta rule that 50% of your PL has to start on the table.

Invo saves should not be allowed to be reroll for ANY reason.

Allow transports to move half their distance and disembark infantry.

Remove all -1 to hit army traits and replace with some other defensive benefit.

A 6 to hit or wound is always a success.

All rules active on a 6 to hit change wording to unmodified 6 to hit.

This is what you get with a "living" rules set. So far GW have made very few "bad" updates as the game has been going on. I have no expectations, short of a few units and armies which need a little help, because power-creep is alive and well.

The end of what coming into view? The end of codex updates?

 Elbows wrote:
This is what you get with a "living" rules set. So far GW have made very few "bad" updates as the game has been going on. I have no expectations, short of a few units and armies which need a little help, because power-creep is alive and well.

Well gw's living rules still mean new editions. Case in point aos 2nd ed

How is it certain the end is coming near when there's not even dates out for some codices?

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
This is what you get with a "living" rules set. So far GW have made very few "bad" updates as the game has been going on. I have no expectations, short of a few units and armies which need a little help, because power-creep is alive and well.

Well gw's living rules still mean new editions. Case in point aos 2nd ed

I didn't say anything about that.

The character targeting rule makes for some really dumb situations and should be replaced by something that makes sense. At the very least they could require characters to be within 2" of any other unit, before they can't be targeted.

My list is:

Firing arcs returned
Removal of fixed to-hit
Battleshock replaced with a more interesting and impactful morale system
Fewer aura buffs and a reworking of them to be morale-centric rather than rerolls, mortal wounds, etc.
Terrain impacting movement
Somewhat more abstracted LOS
Double moves on run/turbo boost/charge
Return of templates
Removal of allies
Alternating Activation
Psychic powers with points costs greater than zero
Removal of the phases
A variety of actions a unit can take when it activates (move and shoot, charge, run, move and cast psychic powers, suppression fire, etc.)
Cover that prevents models from getting hit in the first place, instead of interaction with saves
Removal of mortal wounds
A reworking of the degrading statline mechanic for high-wound models that is more intuitive and doesn't involve consulting a chart every turn.
Gargantuan Creatures, Superheavy Vehicles and possibly flyers moved to apocalypse-scale games exclusively, allowing base 40k to focus on infantry

Edit A reworking of CPs into a system tied to actual command models, with effects that are not simple buffs like we see now, or outright removed.
A return of the Independent Character rule.
Drastically reduced number of weapons with random shots and/or random damage.

I'm a simple man, I have a simple request: bring back some USR's.

There are so many models with junk space taken up by rules that are all functionally identical and it just gets old/confusing. Poison, feel no pain, stealth, deep strike, relentless, that sort of thing.

Maybe you would like Warhammer 40000: The Wargame 3rd-7th edition?

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
I'm a simple man, I have a simple request: bring back some USR's.

There are so many models with junk space taken up by rules that are all functionally identical and it just gets old/confusing. Poison, feel no pain, stealth, deep strike, relentless, that sort of thing.

That would be sensible. Though has AoS such rules? No? So don´t get your hopes up. A lot of people complained on the forum that they couldn´t memorize a few USRs.

The USR argument is silly though because they didn't go anywhere. They still exist. When was the last time you asked someone what special rules a unit had, and they said "Slaughtervane of the Portent Gods" or something and not just "Oh, they Deepstrike."

No one is asking you to memorize the name of your opponents special rules. I've never ever heard a single player refer to their "version" of Feel No Pain, Deepstrike, Infiltrate, etc. by the actual name in the book. USRs absolutely still exist, in droves.

More complex terrain and cover rules.

I'd like fire points to return to vehicles, everything else about them has been a vast improvement compared to prior editions.

The big thing would be an activation system, but that would be quite a big step to do and probably needed a new edition...

Everything else are just small imbalances that can be fixed in CA. Overall 8th ed. is fine.

I want them to not jump to a new edition pointlessly and simply refine the largely workable one they've got now. Getting everyone their rules should be the beginning of an edition; not the end.

Trust me, the way GW works you're going to have 8th as the basis for the next 10 or more years. 3rd-7th were all based on the skeleton of 3rd edition, and that was in existence for 17 years. You will not see a full scale reboot like 8th for another 10-15 years most likely.

That's not to say 8th in 2022 will be identifiable as it is now, but the basic core concepts will be it for a looooong time.

 Elbows wrote:
The USR argument is silly though because they didn't go anywhere. They still exist. When was the last time you asked someone what special rules a unit had, and they said "Slaughtervane of the Portent Gods" or something and not just "Oh, they Deepstrike."

No one is asking you to memorize the name of your opponents special rules. I've never ever heard a single player refer to their "version" of Feel No Pain, Deepstrike, Infiltrate, etc. by the actual name in the book. USRs absolutely still exist, in droves.

Except, you know, new players getting introduced to the game. I think you made my case for me: they still exist, just bloody make them official for clarity's sake.

Nope, the entire point of them NOT being actual defined USRs is so that they can be custom tailored in future edits/FAQs/errate etc. It's the price you pay for a "living ruleset". They're attempting to future-proof stuff so they can edit it easier...but the result is the bizarre names.

I think it's worth the trade off. I don't think any new player would have a hard time realizing "hey, most of these are the same rule...".

Just find someone who will play an older version with you.

Blastaar wrote:
My list is:

Firing arcs returned
Removal of fixed to-hit
Battleshock replaced with a more interesting and impactful morale system
Fewer aura buffs and a reworking of them to be morale-centric rather than rerolls, mortal wounds, etc.
Terrain impacting movement
Somewhat more abstracted LOS
Double moves on run/turbo boost/charge
Return of templates
Removal of allies
Alternating Activation
Psychic powers with points costs greater than zero
Removal of the phases
A variety of actions a unit can take when it activates (move and shoot, charge, run, move and cast psychic powers, suppression fire, etc.)
Cover that prevents models from getting hit in the first place, instead of interaction with saves
Removal of mortal wounds
A reworking of the degrading statline mechanic for high-wound models that is more intuitive and doesn't involve consulting a chart every turn.
Gargantuan Creatures, Superheavy Vehicles and possibly flyers moved to apocalypse-scale games exclusively, allowing base 40k to focus on infantry

Edit A reworking of CPs into a system tied to actual command models, with effects that are not simple buffs like we see now, or outright removed.
A return of the Independent Character rule.
Drastically reduced number of weapons with random shots and/or random damage.

What about the multiple versions of all the rules/potential USRs, though?

Scouts - deploy in normal order, anywhere outside 9"
Rangers - deploy before start of the game, anywhere outside 9"
Pathfinders - deploy, then move before start of the game.

I didn't play 5th-7th so I'm not sure how this was handled under past rules sets, but these three all seem like "infiltrate" style rules that work very differently from each other.

I think it would be better if they did like most games and while not having USRs that are only listed in the rulebook, have common keyword rules they they reuse across the game and keep consistent. The BRB lookup is the problem. Just list the rule as if it was an USR, but then include reminder text of what the rule actually does.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well...We are technically playing a beta game right now. They are even coming out with beta rules...

Technically we aren't even playing 8.0 yet. We are playing 8th Ed beta version 1.3.4 or something.

Things I'd like to see?

CP's have to be used by the detachment OR a detachment in your army that has the same faction keyword. (Example 2 IK house Raven detachments could share CP with each other - BUT 5 CP from IG ballalion could not.
(This would effectively kill command point batteries) Does anyone honestly thing this is a good idea? Not me.

Psychic denial range should be determined by the target of the spell. Example (Farseer casts doom on repulsor 6 inches away but is 25" from the librarian - libby could deny that because the repulsor is 6 inches away)

Remove turn 1 DS restrictions. Just keep the beta rule that 50% of your PL has to start on the table.

Invo saves should not be allowed to be reroll for ANY reason.

Allow transports to move half their distance and disembark infantry.

Remove all -1 to hit army traits and replace with some other defensive benefit.

A 6 to hit or wound is always a success.

All rules active on a 6 to hit change wording to unmodified 6 to hit.

This is pretty much everything I would want. Although I’m not sure on the “no invul rerolls”- I think they just need to re-evaluate what units get to access to an invul below 4++. The Archon Shadowfield is perfect for example- no rerolls but grants a 2++ until a wound goes through. A unit with a 3++ probably shouldn’t be able to reroll without spending a CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

Blastaar wrote:
My list is:

Firing arcs returned
Removal of fixed to-hit
Battleshock replaced with a more interesting and impactful morale system
Fewer aura buffs and a reworking of them to be morale-centric rather than rerolls, mortal wounds, etc.
Terrain impacting movement
Somewhat more abstracted LOS
Double moves on run/turbo boost/charge
Return of templates
Removal of allies
Alternating Activation
Psychic powers with points costs greater than zero
Removal of the phases
A variety of actions a unit can take when it activates (move and shoot, charge, run, move and cast psychic powers, suppression fire, etc.)
Cover that prevents models from getting hit in the first place, instead of interaction with saves
Removal of mortal wounds
A reworking of the degrading statline mechanic for high-wound models that is more intuitive and doesn't involve consulting a chart every turn.
Gargantuan Creatures, Superheavy Vehicles and possibly flyers moved to apocalypse-scale games exclusively, allowing base 40k to focus on infantry

Edit A reworking of CPs into a system tied to actual command models, with effects that are not simple buffs like we see now, or outright removed.
A return of the Independent Character rule.
Drastically reduced number of weapons with random shots and/or random damage.

Maybe you would like Warhammer 40000: The Wargame 3rd-7th edition?

How are you all reading my mind? 8th with its flaws is still much much better than 3rd-7th.

I just want my armor facings back.. and bolter drill.

And templates..

 Elbows wrote:
Nope, the entire point of them NOT being actual defined USRs is so that they can be custom tailored in future edits/FAQs/errate etc. It's the price you pay for a "living ruleset". They're attempting to future-proof stuff so they can edit it easier...but the result is the bizarre names.

I think it's worth the trade off. I don't think any new player would have a hard time realizing "hey, most of these are the same rule...".

Except now they get into situation where editing it is NOT easy because you have to edit it in multiple places or you end up with marine chapter A with 4++ stormshield and marine chapter B with 3+++ stormshield. Or smoke launchers that for one does X and other Y.

Xenomancers wrote:CP's have to be used by the detachment OR a detachment in your army that has the same faction keyword
Remove all -1 to hit army traits and replace with some other defensive benefit.
A 6 to hit or wound is always a success.

I'd like to see these changes too

Maybe the return of abstract/area terrain as well, might help with all the LoS issues. YMMV, but Shadow Wars was quite an experience in how awful TLoS can be with some of GW's terrain kits.

tneva82 wrote:Except now they get into situation where editing it is NOT easy because you have to edit it in multiple places or you end up with marine chapter A with 4++ stormshield and marine chapter B with 3+++ stormshield. Or smoke launchers that for one does X and other Y.

Has this happened already? And surely the whole point of the donut steel names is that changes to one faction's smoke launcher type special rule wouldn't be confused with another's?

 Xenomancers wrote:
All rules active on a 6 to hit change wording to unmodified 6 to hit.

So basically you want Death Guard to be totally re-written, because it makes any +1 to wound effects meaningless.

A new GK codex, but after they do 2-3 other books first and use up the streamline everything ideas first. Then they can make a GK codex that has normal rules like other armies.

I’m mostly happy with 8th but there are a few things I’d like to see.

1- Get rid of the Deepstrike Restriction on turn 1. I understand why it’s there but it’s caused more problems than it’s fixed, especially for those units that don’t shoot. The alternative would be to fix the rule for said units.
2- Deployment Shenangans need to be completed before rolling for first turn/seize.
3- Tossing in my vote for some sort of Allies adjustment.
4- Address the points disparity for vehicles. Some are just undercosted and others are overcosted.
* I’m not upset at this, since it really does feel like a beta where they try to adapt to the removal of the AV mechanic that has existed forever. I can actually see this one happening with each CA release, I just hope it something that they review.

X- I’d like the ITC scenarios to disappear and tournaments start using the 40k ones.

 nurgle5 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:Except now they get into situation where editing it is NOT easy because you have to edit it in multiple places or you end up with marine chapter A with 4++ stormshield and marine chapter B with 3+++ stormshield. Or smoke launchers that for one does X and other Y.

Has this happened already? And surely the whole point of the donut steel names is that changes to one faction's smoke launcher type special rule wouldn't be confused with another's?

It was an issue in 5th iirc. May have carried over into 6th and 7th, but I didn’t keep up as much during that time.

 Primark G wrote:
Just find someone who will play an older version with you.

Spoiler:

Blastaar wrote:
My list is:

Firing arcs returned
Removal of fixed to-hit
Battleshock replaced with a more interesting and impactful morale system
Fewer aura buffs and a reworking of them to be morale-centric rather than rerolls, mortal wounds, etc.
Terrain impacting movement
Somewhat more abstracted LOS
Double moves on run/turbo boost/charge
Return of templates
Removal of allies
Alternating Activation
Psychic powers with points costs greater than zero
Removal of the phases
A variety of actions a unit can take when it activates (move and shoot, charge, run, move and cast psychic powers, suppression fire, etc.)
Cover that prevents models from getting hit in the first place, instead of interaction with saves
Removal of mortal wounds
A reworking of the degrading statline mechanic for high-wound models that is more intuitive and doesn't involve consulting a chart every turn.
Gargantuan Creatures, Superheavy Vehicles and possibly flyers moved to apocalypse-scale games exclusively, allowing base 40k to focus on infantry

Edit A reworking of CPs into a system tied to actual command models, with effects that are not simple buffs like we see now, or outright removed.
A return of the Independent Character rule.
Drastically reduced number of weapons with random shots and/or random damage.