Switch Theme:

Declaring targets, defensive strategems, and splitting fire  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




In my shooting phase, I select a model to shoot and then declare two targets

My opponent does not elect to use any defensive strategems that are to be used when "an opponent targets your unit" (think Take Cover for AM or Rotate Ion Shields for IK

I then decide which weapons I will fire at which units

Is it now too late for my opponent to use those strategems above, as targeting units is over and I'm now selecting weapons to shoot?

Keep in mind these are two very separate steps of the shooting phase in the BRB.
   
Made in nz
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




Ankh Morpork

If the stratagem says it is to be used when the enemy selects one of your units as a target then that is when it must be used, and not afterwards when you move on to selecting a weapon to shoot with.

For myself, for casual or fun games I would not be partiuclarly fussy with that difference.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




You should be declaring attacks I.E. which models and weapons are being fired at each target not just tac squad will shoot that infantry squad and the basilisk.
If you don't you can't check line of sight from the firing model or check the range of the weapon profile.

If your not declairing attacks weapon by weapon you can't check the range and if you can't check the range you can't move on to choose ranged weapon section of the sequence.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




On a related note. With variable shot weapons do I get to declare each model/each weapon before I roll number of shots or after?

Plasma inceptors have 2x d3 shot weapons. Can I roll my number of shots before declaring what will shoot at what or do I have to say Model 1 will shoot at x or model 1 gun 1 will shoot at x and gun 2 will shoot at y and then roll shots?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ice_can wrote:
You should be declaring attacks I.E. which models and weapons are being fired at each target not just tac squad will shoot that infantry squad and the basilisk.
If you don't you can't check line of sight from the firing model or check the range of the weapon profile.

If your not declairing attacks weapon by weapon you can't check the range and if you can't check the range you can't move on to choose ranged weapon section of the sequence.


Can you show me where it says I need to do these things simultaneously?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





You don't have to do them simultaneously. The rules are actually quite clear on this. You choose your target, THEN you choose the weapon you're firing, THEN you resolve the attacks.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

But you do need to verify LOS and Range when declaring your targets. This means there is some, but not much, wriggle room in the need to declare what weapons will be aimed at which targets since only some weapons may be in range of a particular target.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




RAW is murky but not contradictory on this from my read.

Under "Choose Targets" we're told to "pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used (as listed on its profile) and be visible to the shooting model".

Under "Choose Ranged Weapon" we're told "In either case, declare how you will split the shooting unit's shots before any dice are rolled and resolve all the shots against on target before moving on to the next".

So it's simple enough. You do this per RAW:

Assume I have 5 models in a unit with 2 heavy weapons and 3 medium weapons. All models also have light weapons. "Choose Targets" works on a per model basis, not per unit. "In order to target an enemy unit...that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used...and be visible to the shooting model".

Thus, I say my 2 heavy weapon-bearing models will target Enemy Unit 1, which is a Heavy Support, which is in range of both their guns. I say my 3 medium weapon-bearing models will target Enemy 2, which is a Troop and is in range of both their guns. I check range of all guns on all models and line of sight for all models.

I haven't picked which guns I'll use yet: the heavy, the light or both, but I did check that at least one is in range and line of sight is established.

My opponent can now play a defensive stratagem like Rotate Ion Shields.

After that, I pick which weapons from which models will ACTUALLY fire (let's ignore BCB's sig issue for now that all weapons MUST be fired).

The bigger question is: where would this order of operations make a difference? I can only think of a few scenarios:

1. I don't target my heavy-weapon bearers on Enemy Unit 1 so my opponent can breathe a sigh of relief and forgo the stratagem.

2. I target BOTH Enemy Unit 1 and Enemy Unit 2 with my heavy-weapon bearers to keep my opponent guessing. Now he has to play defensive stratagems and I can choose to just not fire anything (or only fire light weapons) at Enemy Unit 1 if he does.

3. My heavy weapons are one time use so I withhold using them in response to a defensive stratagem being played (again, ignoring BCB's sig issue).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/09 14:20:58


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




This question becomes pretty important if say a shadowsword with sponsons targets two enemy knights. If the opponent must use Rotate Ion Shields on one knight before the shadowsword allocates it's main weapon, it will make a big difference.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Raw is murky and muddy, as Audustum said.

Because your targets must be in range of the weapon that is going to fire at them, you have to have also chosen which weapons will fire at those targets before the separate step of choosing which weapon will fire at which target.

For example: a 5-man tac marine squad with a melta and a pistol+sword sgt chooses 2 units to fire at; 1 of those units is 10" from the squad, the other is 13" from the squad. You cannot declare the melta and bp to be firing at the unit 13" away, and you have to assign at least 1 bolter to fire at that unit.

As to Plasma intercessors; technically there is no allowance for 1 model to split fire between 2 targets. A single model with multiple guns is allowed to split tagets between guns, or, individual models within a unit can fire all their guns at separate targets. I don't think anyone actually plays it that way; but it is what the RAW says. As far as the actual question; # of shots is determined when you are firing the weapon, well after choosing targets(same as Rapid fire getting only 1 shot when it is time to shoot that gun if all models that were within half-range are dead).

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

As to Plasma intercessors; technically there is no allowance for 1 model to split fire between 2 targets.


That's straight-up wrong - a model with 2 x D3 shot weapons can fire each weapon at a separate target if it so chooses. You roll the D3 for how many shots after choosing which units they're shooting at.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/09 14:41:25


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The targeting rules do seem to be a bit muddled, as I realised at the weekend when using Lightning Fast Reflexes with my Dark Eldar. You have to declare a target before declaring which weapons you'll use, which causes a bit of confusion over whether a target is in range since you can't have declared the weapon yet.

The easiest method is probably to declare your target and weapon at the same time but that's not RAW. I think one of the things 8th edition really needs to clear up in the next round of FAQs is this sort of sequencing issue.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Quothe the choose a ranged weapon: "If a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them at the same target, or it can shoot each at a different enemy unit. Similarly, if a unit contains more than one model, they can shoot at the same or different targets as you choose. In either case, declare how you will split the shooting unit's shots before any dice are rolled, and resolve all shots against one target before moving on to the next."

That "Similarly" makes the rules that follow a separate clause from the preceding sentence. If it were "Additionally" then units with more than one model and multiple weapons on that model could choose to target different enemy units with each gun; but it does not. Strict reading is 1-model unit with several guns can split with each gun; multiple-model units always choose targets per model no matter how many guns the model has.

But again; I already stated no one really plays it that way.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Quothe the choose a ranged weapon: "If a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them at the same target, or it can shoot each at a different enemy unit. Similarly, if a unit contains more than one model, they can shoot at the same or different targets as you choose. In either case, declare how you will split the shooting unit's shots before any dice are rolled, and resolve all shots against one target before moving on to the next."

That "Similarly" makes the rules that follow a separate clause from the preceding sentence. If it were "Additionally" then units with more than one model and multiple weapons on that model could choose to target different enemy units with each gun; but it does not. Strict reading is 1-model unit with several guns can split with each gun; multiple-model units always choose targets per model no matter how many guns the model has.

But again; I already stated no one really plays it that way.


This may be because most infantry models don't have 2 guns like the vehicles do.

We play you declare which unit is firing then choose which weapons are firing where. I think this is meant to prevent a vehicle with 6 weapons to fire 1 at a time at another unit to try and wipe them out slowly and save your weapons for other targets. If you think you won't kill it then shoot more weapons but then the overkill gets wasted.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wanted to have the book to quote as its some of GW's couldn't be clearer in a blizzard style writing.
I've shortened some quote to avoid this being a wall of text

Under step 1
Unless oyherwise stated, each model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with


Under step 2
Having chosen a shooting unit, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used (as listed on its profile) and visible to the shooting model.


Step 4 Resolve Attacks
The following sequence is used to make attacks one at a time


Step 1 implies but I admit doesn't explicitly state that models perform attacks with weapons.
This is supported by step 4 being Resolve Attacks not shot, shooting or any other wording.

Step 2 states you pick targets for the attacks, not for the unit or for the model.
The following sentence states that "a model from the unit must be in range of the weapon being used."
This shows you must know the range and weapon being used to be able to declare a unit as a target.

I accept that GW could have made this much clearer but hopefully this explains why to me the rules require a weapon to be declaired to allow a unit to be declaired as a target.

The way its writen also states all ranges and Line of Sight for the unit are checked at step 2 hence removing the closest models doesn't effect the range or line of sight for the remaining models within that unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/09 18:50:44


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Having re-read again, and taking into account what's said above I think that clears things up pretty well and it looks as though declaring a target also involves the declaring the weapon used, as per step 2.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






 JohnnyHell wrote:
As to Plasma intercessors; technically there is no allowance for 1 model to split fire between 2 targets.


That's straight-up wrong - a model with 2 x D3 shot weapons can fire each weapon at a separate target if it so chooses. You roll the D3 for how many shots after choosing which units they're shooting at.

Correct, this is a crucial difference between 2x weapons and twin weapons. If you have two lascannons then you can split fire, if you have a twin lascannon then you must fire both shots at one target.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




So I declare what units my unit is shooting at and then declare which of my declared target unit that gun is shooting at, and then roll for the number of shots, resolve those shots and then move onto the next gun?

My god these inceptors are going to take forever to play...
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

You are free to fast roll since you have to declare where all your attacks are going before you roll any to Hit rolls.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






RAW, the opponent needs to use the stratagem at step two if it says it needs to be used when his/her unit is selected as targets of shooting attack.

Your opponent doesn't get to use the stratagem depending on which weapon you choose to shoot with.

"I won't use my stratagem against your combi plasma wielding unit unless you overcharge them."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/12 16:33:26


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Another question to this, from a recent game.

I have a unit of 7 plague marines with 3 plasma guns and 4 bolters.
My opponent has two units of shining spears and CP left to use Lightning Fast Reflexes.

At what point does he need to declare his stratagem?
1) After I decide what to shoot with any model?
2) After I decide what to shoot with all models?
3) After I decide which mode of my plasma gun I'm using?

And more specific:
I assume that my opponent is not using the stratagem before I use my first plasma gun.
Can I declare and fully resolve my bolters before shooting any plasma guns?
Once my opponent decided to use Lightning Fast Reflexes against my first plasma gun, can I still decide to no overload that weapon?
Can I shoot the other unit with the remaining two plasma guns?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/12 13:30:46


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Jidmah wrote:
Another question to this, from a recent game.

I have a unit of 7 plague marines with 3 plasma guns and 4 bolters.
My opponent has two units of shining spears and CP left to use Lightning Fast Reflexes.

At what point does he need to declare his stratagem?
1) After I decide what to shoot with any model?
2) After I decide what to shoot with all models?
3) After I decide which mode of my plasma gun I'm using?
He needs to declare it in step 2 of the shooting/fight phase.
Lighting-Fast Reactions
Use this stratagem when a friend unit... is chosen as the target for an enemy attack in the shooting or fight phase...

Battle primer pg 5
SHOOTING SEQUENCE
1.Choose unit to shoot with
2.Choose targets
3.Choose ranged weapon
4.Resolve attacks
While checking for range is a requirement of choosing targets, it is a distinct step prior to selecting which weapon to shoot, much like how enemy has to be within 12" for you to be able to consider them a valid target of a charge, even though a unit can move within 1" of the enemy unit 12.99" away on a roll of 12.
 Jidmah wrote:
And more specific:
I assume that my opponent is not using the stratagem before I use my first plasma gun.
Can I declare and fully resolve my bolters before shooting any plasma guns?
Yes, order of weapon selection is entirely up to the controlling player, regardless of whether the stratagem is used or not.
 Jidmah wrote:
Once my opponent decided to use Lightning Fast Reflexes against my first plasma gun, can I still decide to no overload that weapon?
He cannot declare he will use the stratagem at the time you select a weapon to fire with. If he declared the stratagem legally, you can choose not to overload the plasma as this is done in Step 3, which is unaffected by the effect of the stratagem.
 Jidmah wrote:
Can I shoot the other unit with the remaining two plasma guns?
If you chose the other unit during Step 2, yes, you can fire the rest of the plasmaguns at the other unit, much like how charge work in that despite 2 units being within 12", if you declare charge against only one unit you can only attack that unit.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/12 23:21:56


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 skchsan wrote:
RAW, the opponent needs to use the stratagem at step two if it says it needs to be used when his/her unit is selected as targets of shooting attack.

Your opponent doesn't get to use the stratagem depending on which weapon you choose to shoot with.

"I won't use my stratagem against your combi plasma wielding unit unless you overcharge them."


Which is what I thought too. However, as per the rules (quoted by Ice_can) "Having chosen a shooting unit, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used". That tells us you need to select the weapon being used at this point. This pretty much means point 3 "Choose Ranged Weapon" is at the very least badly named. Reading the "Choose Ranged Weapon" section it's actually talking more about multiple weapons and splitting fire. Given the requirement in step 2 to check the target is in range of the weapon being used I'd say it's pretty clear you use the stratagem once you know which weapons are firing where.


As far as plasma or other weapons with different firing modes are concerned the rules aren't too clear here either but I'd assume you choose fire mode for them during step 3.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Slipspace wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
RAW, the opponent needs to use the stratagem at step two if it says it needs to be used when his/her unit is selected as targets of shooting attack.

Your opponent doesn't get to use the stratagem depending on which weapon you choose to shoot with.

"I won't use my stratagem against your combi plasma wielding unit unless you overcharge them."


Which is what I thought too. However, as per the rules (quoted by Ice_can) "Having chosen a shooting unit, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used". That tells us you need to select the weapon being used at this point. This pretty much means point 3 "Choose Ranged Weapon" is at the very least badly named. Reading the "Choose Ranged Weapon" section it's actually talking more about multiple weapons and splitting fire. Given the requirement in step 2 to check the target is in range of the weapon being used I'd say it's pretty clear you use the stratagem once you know which weapons are firing where.


As far as plasma or other weapons with different firing modes are concerned the rules aren't too clear here either but I'd assume you choose fire mode for them during step 3.
I agree on that ambiguity - step 2 and 3 should be switched in the rules for clarity and proper sequencing, but as RAW, "Select Target" comes before "Select Weapon".
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slipspace wrote:

Which is what I thought too. However, as per the rules (quoted by Ice_can) "Having chosen a shooting unit, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used". That tells us you need to select the weapon being used at this point.


Actually it tells you that at least one of the weapons on one of the models in the unit that will be firing has a range that can reach the target. That does not mean that all models must be within range of one of the weapons. If the unit shooting has multiple weapons and only their longer range weapon will let that hit the unit, then you can assume that one of those weapons is being fired (but not necessarily more than one). If you can split fire, a unit of 5 might have only 1 going on that unit and the other 4 on a different unit. If the range is close enough that all the weapons on the attacking unit can reach, you have no idea what weapon is going to be fired as all of them are within range.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 doctortom wrote:
Slipspace wrote:

Which is what I thought too. However, as per the rules (quoted by Ice_can) "Having chosen a shooting unit, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used". That tells us you need to select the weapon being used at this point.


Actually it tells you that at least one of the weapons on one of the models in the unit that will be firing has a range that can reach the target. That does not mean that all models must be within range of one of the weapons. If the unit shooting has multiple weapons and only their longer range weapon will let that hit the unit, then you can assume that one of those weapons is being fired (but not necessarily more than one). If you can split fire, a unit of 5 might have only 1 going on that unit and the other 4 on a different unit. If the range is close enough that all the weapons on the attacking unit can reach, you have no idea what weapon is going to be fired as all of them are within range.
I think most of us agree on the RAI portion, and that indeed you can't choose to declare the stratagem after finding out what's being shot at them. But there is a small loop hole TFG can bring up saying " BUT IT SAYS WEAPON BEING USED WHEN CHOOSING TARGET!!!!" But it is also clearly RAW that stratagem needs to be declared when target is chosen, not during choose weapon step of the phase as you are not choosing targets when selecting which weapon to fire with.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 skchsan wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
Another question to this, from a recent game.

I have a unit of 7 plague marines with 3 plasma guns and 4 bolters.
My opponent has two units of shining spears and CP left to use Lightning Fast Reflexes.

At what point does he need to declare his stratagem?
1) After I decide what to shoot with any model?
2) After I decide what to shoot with all models?
3) After I decide which mode of my plasma gun I'm using?
He needs to declare it in step 2 of the shooting/fight phase.
Lighting-Fast Reactions
Use this stratagem when a friend unit... is chosen as the target for an enemy attack in the shooting or fight phase...

Battle primer pg 5
SHOOTING SEQUENCE
1.Choose unit to shoot with
2.Choose targets
3.Choose ranged weapon
4.Resolve attacks
While checking for range is a requirement of choosing targets, it is a distinct step prior to selecting which weapon to shoot, much like how enemy has to be within 12" for you to be able to consider them a valid target of a charge, even though a unit can move within 1" of the enemy unit 12.99" away on a roll of 12.
 Jidmah wrote:
And more specific:
I assume that my opponent is not using the stratagem before I use my first plasma gun.
Can I declare and fully resolve my bolters before shooting any plasma guns?
Yes, order of weapon selection is entirely up to the controlling player, regardless of whether the stratagem is used or not.
 Jidmah wrote:
Once my opponent decided to use Lightning Fast Reflexes against my first plasma gun, can I still decide to no overload that weapon?
He cannot declare he will use the stratagem at the time you select a weapon to fire with. If he declared the stratagem legally, you can choose not to overload the plasma as this is done in Step 3, which is unaffected by the effect of the stratagem.
 Jidmah wrote:
Can I shoot the other unit with the remaining two plasma guns?
If you chose the other unit during Step 2, yes, you can fire the rest of the plasmaguns at the other unit, much like how charge work in that despite 2 units being within 12", if you declare charge against only one unit you can only attack that unit.




Thanks for answering, but I really don't feel like my question has been answered, so a follow up:
Each marine has one weapon, so it's pretty clear that three of them are shooting plasma and four are shooting bolters.

So, just for clarity
1) I pick my plague marine unit
2) I pick all units within 24" as targets of my plague marines, just to be sure I don't miss anything
2a) My opponent must decide on which of the targeted units he wants to use his stratagem
3) I now decide which model is actually shooting which unit, whether it does 1 or 2 attacks and whether it is overcharging or not. All of them shoot a unit that is not protected by the stratagem.

Correct?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/13 08:05:58


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
Another question to this, from a recent game.

I have a unit of 7 plague marines with 3 plasma guns and 4 bolters.
My opponent has two units of shining spears and CP left to use Lightning Fast Reflexes.

At what point does he need to declare his stratagem?
1) After I decide what to shoot with any model?
2) After I decide what to shoot with all models?
3) After I decide which mode of my plasma gun I'm using?
He needs to declare it in step 2 of the shooting/fight phase.
Lighting-Fast Reactions
Use this stratagem when a friend unit... is chosen as the target for an enemy attack in the shooting or fight phase...

Battle primer pg 5
SHOOTING SEQUENCE
1.Choose unit to shoot with
2.Choose targets
3.Choose ranged weapon
4.Resolve attacks
While checking for range is a requirement of choosing targets, it is a distinct step prior to selecting which weapon to shoot, much like how enemy has to be within 12" for you to be able to consider them a valid target of a charge, even though a unit can move within 1" of the enemy unit 12.99" away on a roll of 12.
 Jidmah wrote:
And more specific:
I assume that my opponent is not using the stratagem before I use my first plasma gun.
Can I declare and fully resolve my bolters before shooting any plasma guns?
Yes, order of weapon selection is entirely up to the controlling player, regardless of whether the stratagem is used or not.
 Jidmah wrote:
Once my opponent decided to use Lightning Fast Reflexes against my first plasma gun, can I still decide to no overload that weapon?
He cannot declare he will use the stratagem at the time you select a weapon to fire with. If he declared the stratagem legally, you can choose not to overload the plasma as this is done in Step 3, which is unaffected by the effect of the stratagem.
 Jidmah wrote:
Can I shoot the other unit with the remaining two plasma guns?
If you chose the other unit during Step 2, yes, you can fire the rest of the plasmaguns at the other unit, much like how charge work in that despite 2 units being within 12", if you declare charge against only one unit you can only attack that unit.




Thanks for answering, but I really don't feel like my question has been answered, so a follow up:
Each marine has one weapon, so it's pretty clear that three of them are shooting plasma and four are shooting bolters.

So, just for clarity
1) I pick my plague marine unit
2) I pick all units within 24" as targets of my plague marines, just to be sure I don't miss anything
2a) My opponent must decide on which of the targeted units he wants to use his stratagem
3) I now decide which model is actually shooting which unit, whether it does 1 or 2 attacks and whether it is overcharging or not. All of them shoot a unit that is not protected by the stratagem.

Correct?
It depends on how you interpret the wording of the shooting phase.

Discuss with your opponents would be my advise at the moment as some people apparently have totally diffrent opinions on how this works.

My possition based on the RAW is you declair a target for each attack, ie weapon.

Skchsan says you can declair unit to unit, then do range LOS sperately then do it all over again after step 3.

I really don't understand why GW can't pick a terminology and be consistent with it and make the rules much clearer so we know we are all actually playing the same game. Not our on interpretations of what we think ambiguous statements are supposed to communicate.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Just for the record, I will not try to play strict RAW if it makes no sense or feels game-y.

I just would like to know what RAW actually says, so I can inform my opponent about it and agree on how to play it. This has been my attempt at these problems since 5th edition (is a deff rolla part of the hull?) and I have run very well with it.

In this special case I moved within 12" of some alaitoc shining spears to negate the -1 to hit and overcharge my weapons ("I shoot those guys with overcharged plasma"), my opponent then activated his stratagem ("Wait, before you do that, I activate my stratagem") and there was a short discussion on whether I was stuck in overcharge mode or not (we correctly agreed on "not").
If I had been able to switch targets, I would have done so with as many weapons as possible, since there was no advantage to shooting the bikes protected by the stratagem over another unit within range.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/13 10:25:53


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
Just for the record, I will not try to play strict RAW if it makes no sense or feels game-y.

I just would like to know what RAW actually says, so I can inform my opponent about it and agree on how to play it. This has been my attempt at these problems since 5th edition (is a deff rolla part of the hull?) and I have run very well with it.

In this special case I moved within 12" of some alaitoc shining spears to negate the -1 to hit and overcharge my weapons ("I shoot those guys with overcharged plasma"), my opponent then activated his stratagem ("Wait, before you do that, I activate my stratagem") and there was a short discussion on whether I was stuck in overcharge mode or not (we correctly agreed on "not").
If I had been able to switch targets, I would have done so with as many weapons as possible, since there was no advantage to shooting the bikes protected by the stratagem over another unit within range.

I would agree that you don't lock in overcharged or not untill step 3 but I believe you should declair a target per weapon.

Isn't it equally gaming the system to say I had a knight crusader if its unit to unit I declair shining spears, a hemlock and a waveserpent as targets. The eldar player plays lightning reflexes on the spears. I am now free to shoot the avenger gattling cannon at the hemlock and the thermal cannon at the waveserpent as I'll shoot the heavy stubber as the strategumed unit. Ergo making the defensive strategum pointless.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: