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ERRATA ARTICLES ARE UP:


Custodes:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Horus-Heresy-Custodes-Errata-v1.0.pdf

Age of Darkness Rulebook:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Horus-Heresy-General-Errata-and-FAQ-v1.0.pdf

Drop Pods:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Horus-Heresy-Drop-Pods-Errata-v1.0.pdf

Incredibly lazy answer on the Misericordia question.
And no clarification on whether they really meant for Hetaeron Guard to have Paragon Blades instead of Spears.
I do like that they addressed many other issues, though.

What a great thing to wake up to!
Things that jumped out at me:

Legion Champions can now take Paragon Blades

Vets lost Marksman and gained Stalkers (Scout)

Legion Dreadnout Talons of one model may take a Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport

Seeker Squads: Any model can now take a combi-weapon

Primarch Russ got nerfed! His armor is now "Models in base to base contact are -1 to hit to a maximum of 6+" instead of -1 first round, then -2 after that.

Kinda confirmed Terminator Armor Types... gonna have to dig into that one more...

The Misericordia basically has no stats, it's just ornamentation.

Cleaned up Drop Pod rules- Legion Drop Pods and Dreadnought Drop Pods must disembark when the pod lands.

Haven't read the whole Custodies changes, but looks like they changed the characters a bit and wargear. Good times! I really like all these changes. Should make for a better game for sure.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Legion Champions can now take Paragon Blades

Vets lost Marksman and gained Stalkers (Scout)

I love the champions rule as will be adding one to the jump squad I'm building.

As to Vets, looks like tactical marines just became a better option again.

Boo to not being able to take boarding shields and 2h weapons.

I like the Wolf changes though. Russ is easier to manage and I can give my champions paragon blades.

Losing Marksmen sorta kills my desire to build a Veteran themed Imperial Fists army. Guess I could give them Weapon Masters and use them as Diet Coke Templar Brethren.

Vet Snipers gone isn't that bad for me, Sekhmet being able to take Biomancy and other lores is good, the Osion thing is clarified at last. And the Cult problem is fixed. I'm fine with that.
The Space wolves also got some nice clarifications from what I saw.

 Tamwulf wrote:
...Haven't read the whole Custodies changes, but looks like they changed the characters a bit and wargear. Good times! I really like all these changes. Should make for a better game for sure.

Mostly typo clarifications and "no, the Misericordia is actually just decorative". Big change is that the Praesidium Shield is now +1 to existing Invulnerables instead of reroll failed Invulnerable saves (still has "enemies are at -1 to hit in CC", though) and the Shield-Captain can't have a Cyber-Familiar anymore, so Sentinel Guard are marginally worse (50% to pass Invulnerables instead of 56%) and no more rerollable-3++ Tribune.

Nice to have clarification on the Tormentor. Shame I've now got to go back to it and add sponsons.

So this means Imperial Fist Tartaros terms can finally equip vigil pattern storm shields, yes?

Interesting response, I like it personally

agurus1 wrote:
Interesting response, I like it personally

Answers on Facebook are non-authoritative. No reason to assume this is how it will be.

 techsoldaten wrote:

agurus1 wrote:
Interesting response, I like it personally

Answers on Facebook are non-authoritative. No reason to assume this is how it will be.

In fairness, there is every reason to assume this is how it will be.

Any GW employee can potentially give out information which is later contradicted, superseded, or simply mistaken, but the Community teams invariably pass on information from authoritative sources.

In this particular instance, the head of FW himself stated the exact same thing in a recent 30K stream on Twitch. It's also been stated that 7th is the system they intend to continue using multiple times before this. Now, that may one day change - sure, but that's true of any aspect of the hobby. It's abundantly clear that right now, the statement regarding HH & 7th is about as authoritatively correct as can be.

 hordrak wrote:
Vet Snipers gone isn't that bad for me, Sekhmet being able to take Biomancy and other lores is good, the Osion thing is clarified at last. And the Cult problem is fixed. I'm fine with that.
The Space wolves also got some nice clarifications from what I saw.

I'm a bit sad about the loss of plus 1 to cast.. but I'll take it. Could have been worse.

For my Wolves.. Ultimately, I think all of the changes are good.. although I'm a little sad that most of my key problems with the list weren't addressed.

Things that I like:

Seekers with combi-weapons are 5 points cheaper. Pretty nice.

I now no longer need to take a token Centurion in my Space Wolves army - this is great news. I always hated taking a token Centurion when Russ was my Warlord. Now I can swap him for a Vigilator for my Seekers, or another Speaker of the Dead or something.

Wolf Priest initiative correction.

Things I'm neutral about:

Russ gets a nerf. Yeah, I'm sad that he's gotten a nerf, and without a points adjustment. I feel like the -2 to hit thing only ever actually affected other Primarch's in practice though, as casualties coming off in base to base first meant that most other enemies wouldn't survive to the 2nd round of combat to get affected anyway.. and I liked that he was so good at fighting other Primarch's. On the other hand, a lot of people seemed to be salty about it and - as much as I'm loathe to see my Legion lose one of the few actually really good things from Inferno.. it's not the end of the world, and Russ is still a beast. I'll take it - I'd rather have 'good' rules than 'op' rules.

Things I'm butthurt about:

Warriors Mettle. I really expected them to rule that it confers to characters after all this time. It just seems like such a crappy rule otherwise - all the fluff and run re-rolls available leads me to believe they want me foot slogging my Grey Slayers in big blobs, but in practice that's just horrible without an Apothecary or Speaker in the unit - the moment I add this though, I lose the one good benefit (run and charge) but keep all the bad ones (can't go to ground, etc). It's just a bit of an awkward rule, especially combined with the mandatory 1HQ per 1000pts rule - what am I supposed to do with all these characters?

No clarification on whether Freki and Geri count towards the minimum HQ tax. wat

No changes to Frost Weapons - there's still no reason other than from a model standpoint to take a Frost Sword over a Claw, or a Frost Axe over a Power Fist.

Varagyr still overcosted garbage. Would've liked to see a points decrease or, better yet, +1 wound. Sekhmet are still cheaper and 2W. What gives, ForgeWorld? On that thought, why did Russ need a nerf, but Magnus didn't? Stuff like this reinforces that niggling feeling I get that ForgeWorld love the Thousand Sons and hate the Space Wolves.

I dunno. I was really excited when the FAQ dropped, and if nothing else, the final result is that list building is marginally more flexible than it was before (due to the Centurion thing) - this is kinda cool, and as I was planning on building a Zone Mortalis detachment for my army focussed on the Cult of Morkai, I'm pretty ecstatic to be able to take 2x Speakers as my HQ now. The FAQ has overall failed to address my main concerns about my Wolves though, missed somethings I was particularly confused about, and I think the net result is that the disparity between factions in Inferno is even wider.

What are the thoughts on changes to Scoria and Vulturax?

I'm personally down with amends to the vulturax, it was getting spammed a lot.

The Sceptre nerf though? Without even a points reduction? Gross. Not pleased.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What are the thoughts on changes to Scoria and Vulturax?

I'm personally down with amends to the vulturax, it was getting spammed a lot.

The Sceptre nerf though? Without even a points reduction? Gross. Not pleased.

TBH Scoria was pretty insane before,mi think this will make him less of an auto pick. Which is what many of the changes they are implementing seem to be aimed at (removing Sniper from vets for instance).

agurus1 wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What are the thoughts on changes to Scoria and Vulturax?

I'm personally down with amends to the vulturax, it was getting spammed a lot.

The Sceptre nerf though? Without even a points reduction? Gross. Not pleased.

TBH Scoria was pretty insane before,mi think this will make him less of an auto pick. Which is what many of the changes they are implementing seem to be aimed at (removing Sniper from vets for instance).

He was the Mechanicus answer to Primarchs. He certainly isn't up to that now. And no point reduction.

Poor show imo.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

agurus1 wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What are the thoughts on changes to Scoria and Vulturax?

I'm personally down with amends to the vulturax, it was getting spammed a lot.

The Sceptre nerf though? Without even a points reduction? Gross. Not pleased.

TBH Scoria was pretty insane before,mi think this will make him less of an auto pick. Which is what many of the changes they are implementing seem to be aimed at (removing Sniper from vets for instance).

He was the Mechanicus answer to Primarchs. He certainly isn't up to that now. And no point reduction.

Poor show imo.

He was better in CC than every primarch, (atleast before book 7, fully buffed magnus is absurd) for less points. So I would say he deserved the nerf. A typical mechanicum army has enough shooting to deal with a Primarch.

 Haanz wrote:
For my Wolves.. Ultimately, I think all of the changes are good.. although I'm a little sad that most of my key problems with the list weren't addressed.

Things that I like:

Seekers with combi-weapons are 5 points cheaper. Pretty nice.

I now no longer need to take a token Centurion in my Space Wolves army - this is great news. I always hated taking a token Centurion when Russ was my Warlord. Now I can swap him for a Vigilator for my Seekers, or another Speaker of the Dead or something.

Wolf Priest initiative correction.

Things I'm neutral about:

Russ gets a nerf. Yeah, I'm sad that he's gotten a nerf, and without a points adjustment. I feel like the -2 to hit thing only ever actually affected other Primarch's in practice though, as casualties coming off in base to base first meant that most other enemies wouldn't survive to the 2nd round of combat to get affected anyway.. and I liked that he was so good at fighting other Primarch's. On the other hand, a lot of people seemed to be salty about it and - as much as I'm loathe to see my Legion lose one of the few actually really good things from Inferno.. it's not the end of the world, and Russ is still a beast. I'll take it - I'd rather have 'good' rules than 'op' rules.

Things I'm butthurt about:

Warriors Mettle. I really expected them to rule that it confers to characters after all this time. It just seems like such a crappy rule otherwise - all the fluff and run re-rolls available leads me to believe they want me foot slogging my Grey Slayers in big blobs, but in practice that's just horrible without an Apothecary or Speaker in the unit - the moment I add this though, I lose the one good benefit (run and charge) but keep all the bad ones (can't go to ground, etc). It's just a bit of an awkward rule, especially combined with the mandatory 1HQ per 1000pts rule - what am I supposed to do with all these characters?

No clarification on whether Freki and Geri count towards the minimum HQ tax. wat

No changes to Frost Weapons - there's still no reason other than from a model standpoint to take a Frost Sword over a Claw, or a Frost Axe over a Power Fist.

Varagyr still overcosted garbage. Would've liked to see a points decrease or, better yet, +1 wound. Sekhmet are still cheaper and 2W. What gives, ForgeWorld? On that thought, why did Russ need a nerf, but Magnus didn't? Stuff like this reinforces that niggling feeling I get that ForgeWorld love the Thousand Sons and hate the Space Wolves.

I dunno. I was really excited when the FAQ dropped, and if nothing else, the final result is that list building is marginally more flexible than it was before (due to the Centurion thing) - this is kinda cool, and as I was planning on building a Zone Mortalis detachment for my army focussed on the Cult of Morkai, I'm pretty ecstatic to be able to take 2x Speakers as my HQ now. The FAQ has overall failed to address my main concerns about my Wolves though, missed somethings I was particularly confused about, and I think the net result is that the disparity between factions in Inferno is even wider.

pretty much the same feelings here, disappointed with the russ nerf and the lack of magnus and sekhmet nerf, seriously sekhmet are just beyond a joke at this point. The lack of changes to the varagyr is what really annoyed me most about it though, they nerf our best unit (russ) and do nothing to make our teminators, which are easily the worst legion exclusive terminators and one of the worst units in the game, actually usable. Cheers FW /s They could have quite easily changed them to have 2 wounds or reduced the points cost of the unit just to make them halfway decent, seeing as their special rule is absolute garbage.

They still haven’t fixed rampagers, why expect them to fix varagyr?

I really like the new reserves rules - there's always a chance to fail despite modifiers

preferred enemy consequences now spread to the unit a preferred enemy is joined to

quad launcher frag round 'shell shock' effect is gone and i'm conflicted about it

they cleaned up the graviton imploder - the 'graviton pulse' rule only states "caught in its blast" so the salvo2/4 couldn't wound RAW
this new profile is actually pretty good, avoiding the whole 'immobilised result on a 6' thing from 7th edition

i am stoked by the removal of 'marksman' from veteran squads

i'm glad they cleaned up the apothecaries/VPs thing - now the tactical squads with one aren't worth 2VPs when destroyed

i really like the new boarding sheilds! "if i don't get +1 first round of assault, NOBODY DOES"

cult hordes now have to take Ld checks and may run away - i'm conflicted

The voidian sceptre nerf was absolutely needed - it had no right to be that powerful.

the complete lack of nerfing or indeed any change at all to magnus says to me that the psychic equipment we are getting in the next book is going to do that.
kinda like saying - "here y'go, you seem to know best; you can nerf him back to being a non-psyker but only if you know how to"
it would be cool to see an upgrade which allows random space marines in other legions to 'reveal' their abilities repressed since the council of nikea

 Haanz wrote:
For my Wolves.. Ultimately, I think all of the changes are good.. although I'm a little sad that most of my key problems with the list weren't addressed.

Things that I like:

Seekers with combi-weapons are 5 points cheaper. Pretty nice.

I now no longer need to take a token Centurion in my Space Wolves army - this is great news. I always hated taking a token Centurion when Russ was my Warlord. Now I can swap him for a Vigilator for my Seekers, or another Speaker of the Dead or something.

Wolf Priest initiative correction.

Just want to clarify this for anyone reading this thread now - I completely misinterpreted this ruling, as I assumed that Unique Characters meant faction unique choices (Priests of Fenris, etc. included). I have since come to my senses and realised they mean the Unique Character rule referring to named charactesr, Hvarl, etc.

Kind of sad about this. When the errata dropped, I misread a couple things and assumed that Drop Pods could be taken without the Rite of War, and Wolf Priests could fuful my mandatory Wolf Lord/Claw Leader tax. I was wrong - nothing to see here.

So, now I guess my 9x Seeker unit being 45 points cheaper is my one benefit from this errata, alongside a Russ nerf, and none of my aforementioned other issues and no clarification on Freki and Geri counting towards the HQ tax. Oh well.

Why wouldn't Freki/Geri count as HQ tax?

pm713 wrote:
Why wouldn't Freki/Geri count as HQ tax?

They're not an HQ choice, just an upgrade to a Lord of War (Leman Russ).

The reason I imagine they might count as an HQ choice is the following wording in their rules:

If they are chosen as part of the army, they are treated as a HQ choice so far as any special rule, objective or mission is concerned, but do not take up slots on the Force Organisation Chart.

Do the Space Wolves Legion Rules count as a 'special rule'? I think so, but it's not exactly 100% cut and dry - I've certainly had opponents challenge it. I'd just like to be able to know for sure.

It's an annoying rule in the same sense that while I think it's intended this way, other players might challenge it and consider using it unsporting RAW abuse.

Similarly, the Errata has nerfed the Narthecium special rule to only confer to Legiones Astartes models, but it said nothing about a Speaker of the Dead's Healing Balms which had the same affect (confer FNP to the unit), but wrote the rules independently and didn't reference Narthecium, so aren't affected by the errata. Whether this is intended or an oversight is debatable, but even if I think this is intentional and a contributing reason to why Russ' armour got nerfed (it might be OP, but so is Magnus, and he was untouched), if I play it that way and it benefits me, I'm again opening myself up to getting challenged and accused of being unsporting/RAW abuse.

If that's not enough confusion, I've a few more. All of the above is saying nothing on how a Character - but not an Independent Character as it is explicitly mentioned - such as an Apothecary joining a squad of Grey Slayers interacts with Warrior's Mettle, or the fact that the wording for the minimum-HQ tax is confusing as to whether the 1 per 1000pts is in addition to the mandatory Praetor/Centurion/Unique Character or if they get included in the 1 per 1000 tax (compounded by the fact they made the same mistake in their examples as they do in Inferno - providing concrete examples of how many characters you need for 1001-1999, 2001-2990, 3001-3999, etc but never 1000, 2000, 3000, etc which fails to clarify the previous confusion), and so on.

I feel like I've come out of this FAQ even more confused.

The Space Wolves have been a mess since book seven came out. I believe that they were never finished, and that this at best was a beta version of the army list. I can't offer any insight into the FAQ for the Space Wolves, and can only hope it gets cleaned up again soon. I know how I'd play the issues you brought up, but can totally see other players interpretation being different.

Magnus isn't nearly the powerhouse he was after the Red Rule Book changed the psychic powers. That was a "stealth nerf" that was pretty effective in reducing the OP-ness of Magnus the Red. He is still really powerful. Forge World has promised to address the psychic issue in the next book. Not sure how- if that means more wargear for the Legions, or new characters, or whatever. I just hope it's not limited to Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Night Lords.

edit: OK, haven't had enough coffee yet this morning. I have no proof reading skills until that second cup!

What's so bad about Wolves?

pm713 wrote:
What's so bad about Wolves?

If you do a post search with Tamwulf, you'll see the issues I have brought up in the past.

They have IMHO the best troops choice in the game with Grey Slayers, and Russ can pretty much beat just about any other Primarch in melee combat 1 on 1. After that, things go askew for them.

Thing is, most legions have a legion-specific unit that's really good, and then one or more of the clunker variety.

Tamwulf wrote:The Space Wolves have been a mess since book seven came out. I believe that they were never finished, and that this at best was a beta version of the army list. I can't offer any insight into the FAQ for the Space Wolves, and can only hope it gets cleaned up again soon. I know how I'd play the issues you brought up, but can totally see other players interpretation being different.

True enough. I'm trying to keep my expectations in check for Malevolence, but I'm kind of hoping by the time there's a new Age of Darkness red book, we'd see some fixes for the Wolves finally and all of their weird and confusing stuff.

I know what you mean about having an idea of how you'd play the issues - most of the stuff that I brought up is stuff that all seemed plain to me about how I'd play them, but I know from discussing with some friends that they're vague enough that what's plain to me is night and day clear to someone else for the exact opposite ruling, and that annoys me more than 1W Varagyr, etc.

pm713 wrote:What's so bad about Wolves?

They're not bad bad. Grey Slayers are great, Russ - even with the nerf - is still a beast in combat (even if he doesn't do very much for the army otherwise). Deathsworn are a cool unit with interesting rules. They've got some cool army-wide rules too, and I think their Rites of War are different and interesting.

They've just got tons of weird and confusing and rushed rules though. Their legion-specific Terminators are just plain terrible, and have boring special rules. Grey Slayers' special rule Warriors Mettle (run/fire bolters and charge and some other bits) is mostly ruined if they're joined by a character or Apothecary - and yet, they require more mandatory HQ units than any other legion, including a mandatory vanilla Praetor/Centurion.

Every legion has it's ups and downs, and I think in terms of overall ability to win games, the Space Wolves are mostly fine. But their rules are just really buggy and not fully thought through, or just plainly poorly written to the point where the examples they give to clarify things just confuse things further.