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Looking for a great all-around starting airbrush, and am hoping to get some insight.
From the Sotar, I like that I can hold it closer to the needle, and I also like that its more detail oriented than the 105 Patriot. I've noticed that there is two on Amazon, a heavy and a fine tip, and am curious if there's more behind this than weight.
Looking at the Patriot, I like that its cheaper than both the Sotar and Krome, and it seems to be a great all around starting brush for a novice painter. My only concern is that its needle is on the larger side, @ .5 which helps with basecoating, but detracts from detail, so I am curious if that should be a concern. Also haven't heard anything about how its grip is.
The “heavy head” is just a weird way of saying it’s the large nozzle & needle on the Sotar; it has nothing to do with the weight of the brush.
The Sotar is my go-to airbrush that I use for just about anything, but it excels at fine detail. I primarily paint 15mm stuff, but I use it for 28mm stuff too (and 1/35 scale models). The Krome is a great all-around brush and it’s smallest nozzle/needle is only slightly larger than the Sotar’s while it’s largest is larger (I think). If it’s in your budget, I would get it over the 105 every time just because it’s a lot more versatile that the Patriot.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
I was leaning towards the Sotar but am lacking in POV as to how it differs from the Patriot to justify the extra cost, especially if I can get more versatility from different needles.
Could you share more as to why you prefer the Sotar and/or if any, what scenarios you would use a different brush like the Patriot instead of the Sotar?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/11 01:39:48
I have a patriot 105. It was terrible, workable, but honestly, uhh where to start.
Air leaks everywhere. Used patrolium jelly to solve, air valve still leaked.
Needles bend over time from how they rest and are moved by the trigger, yes enough to effect paint flow.
Leaks of paint from pot to trigger area.
The air valve was bad from the factory, got a new one on warranty, it was the same. Airbrush had no variable in air flow control, it was.. none... A little...full.
The progressive needle is counter intuitive and hard to use.
I used the F needle for the record
These issue caused me having in airbrushing and frustration for more than a year.
But once, cry once.
The night and day difference when I bought my iwata hp-c Japanese made brush made me kick myself for ever buying the patriot.
The flow and air control is wonderful. The atomization is so superior. I can do extremely fine lines and highlights with the iwata even though it has the same size as the patriot.
It simply could have been a bad badger brush as other don't report this level of issue but even after parts replacement it was still crap. But it goes further. the iwata had a vastly superior fit and finish. Metal to metal seals were air tight. The chrome plating was more smooth and finely polished.
I still have the badger. I use it to spray terrain. It's atomization is so bad that I don't even use it for priming.
So you think it isn't useful to have multiple sizes of needle then?
Do you think the problems with the Patriot persist through to the Sotar/Krome?
With regard to the Iwata, do you think they're better than Badger /would you choose the HP-C over Sotar? Looks like I can get both for the same price; its difficult to judge the differences in the brushes aside from just looking at cost and reading other peoples reviews...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is there other Iwata brushes you would also consider?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like the Paasche TG-3F or Iwata-Medea Revolution CR, or is HP-C a top dog?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/11 04:21:13
It is ridiculously hard to judge. I had the same questions as you when I first started with an air brush. I went with the badger because i could get it for 75 USD at the time... But I got what I paid for.
I don't have a sotar so can't give meaningful advice. Multiple needles are not really needed.
The fine in the badger(.3) is enough to paint large terrain with. The finer iwata can paint any vehicle or model. No need for a larger size.
Metallic can be a problem but that has to do with the mica flakes and the size there of.
I'd skip the badger and go iwata or sotar. Folks say good things about the sotar, they stay good things about the patriot 105 too. They also said good things about the iwata.
In general you get what you pay for, really. Airbrush are fine instraments. Precision and quality are critical for performance.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Paaache make great product. My compressor comes from them.
I was disappointed with the cheaper iwatas the the hp-cs. The C was top dog for detail work. It's an older brush but it's quality.
For a correction my brush is a C plus. I wish I could give more reviews on more brushes but I don't have them and it's that personal use that gives the needed info.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/11 04:30:41
marcman wrote:I was leaning towards the Sotar but am lacking in POV as to how it differs from the Patriot to justify the extra cost, especially if I can get more versatility from different needles.
Could you share more as to why you prefer the Sotar and/or if any, what scenarios you would use a different brush like the Patriot instead of the Sotar?
The Sotar is better at fine detail compared to the Patriot, which has a .5mm needle as standard. The Krome and the Patriot both have larger color cups compared to the Sotar, which may or may not be important to you, depending on what your working on.
marcman wrote:Do you think the problems with the Patriot persist through to the Sotar/Krome?
What he was describing is definitely atypical. I don't personally use a Patriot, but I know people that do, and I don't believe the needle bending issue he describes to a reality. I'm active in about a dozen scale modeling forums and Facebook groups and I have never once seen anybody claim that the Patriot needle bends because of "the way it rests in the trigger" until now.
I've used a Krome and a Sotar for years with zero problems and my experience matches just about anyone else I've talked too. I'm not denying problems can exist because nothing is perfect, but on a whole, the Badger airbrushes in question are reliable and durable. That being said, Iwata makes quite a few nice brushes and are definitely worth a look.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
I believe I mentioned that my results were not typical. I bought the badger patriot 105 because of the positive reviews.
If you pull back while observing the needle tip in any long fulcrum unsupported airbrush you will not that it's not actually centered.
Most folks don't notice the air leaks but I had a friend with a working 105 try out my iwata and he admitted that it had vastly better atomization at lower pressure and it's flow and control was superior.
But that's to be expected with an airbrush twice the price of the Patriot. It's a good basic brush.
Don't know about today but my 105 came with the .3 F needle. My buddy's also came with the F stamped needle. I keep mine for bulk junk work but the c plus is my go to. I can edge highlight with it because the ability to run thin and consistent at low pressure and still have a fine atomozed spray.
I have the Sotar and Patriot... and some other airbrushes from Badger. Put quick release valves for all of them so I can switch between them on the fly. Also, not an expert on airbrushes by any means or an artist, so take all this as just my personal experience.
I use the Patriot 90% of the time, it does a good job of spraying primer and base coats. I honestly couldn't really tell a difference when using the Sotar over the Patriot, except for more clogging. This has probably more to do with my paints and thinning them and air pressure more than anything else.
Example of work I did with the Patriot.
Spoiler:
1. Prime Black
2. Zenithal highlight light gray
3. Spray coat of red
4. Spray base coat of silver on silver areas
5. Brush work including changing the red to silver and silver to red where needed, wash and layer.
6. Spray blue for "glow" effects
Assuming I could go back in time, i'd probably start with the Patriot 105, get a needle conversion for it and stick to that. Save a few hundred bucks to spend on something more useful like a good set of airbrush paints.
Yeah paint is the key, so is flow improver is a must. Metallics love to clog.
There are also dry tip treatments out there but I ditched them for Vallejo flow improver by the gallon.
Sorry for the slightly late reply, I thought I'd put one up, but I suspect I lost it on a mobile 'close the wrong window' click.
I have all three badger brushes you are asking about.
The Patriot with the .5 needle is my go-to for priming, base coating and typically 'difficult' acrylic paints that don't flow well through a smaller nozzle. (most metallics, and the bager clear coats.)
The 20/20 is my 'newest' brush and my new go-to for all detail and blending work. Anything that requires less than six drops of paint gets the sotar out. (With the.21 mm setup). It's also very very light.
The Krome has the same nozzle setup as the 20/20 and is capable of the same fine lines, but has the same cup size as the patriot. I picked it up before the 20/20 as I couldn't try both in advance (but the 54 dollar 'birthday deal' on the Sotar sealed the deal.) I will likely put the medium-fine (.30) nozzle into the Krome and it will be come my dedicated 'metal color' brush, as they require extremely careful cleanup to remove all the flake. After about a few more house with the 20/20, I prefer the compact front end on the 20/20 over the Krome, but will figure out a use case for both.
I run all the brushes with a QD, not because I switch them 'during' a job, but to make it much easier post cleaning to swap from one to the other.
For a 'first' airbrush, I think the 105 is a better call. For priming and base coating models, it's got the right needle size and a workable paint cup, and the larger 'steeper' angle of the patriot needle is less likely to get damaged than the super fine points on the other two brushes.
Seems like tge krome is the most universal, so that's what I got. One thing to note though, because of the way the nozzle is shaped you can't just cover it with your finger to back flow like you can an iwata which I find frustrating.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/22 16:32:19
