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Hey dakka dakka!

Pretty new to the hobby, so I'm hoping you can help me out with something that seemed a little bit like shenanigans at my FLGS in a recent battle.

My Admech vs Opponent's Sisters of Battle

Round 2 cause deep strike beta rules.

Beginning of round 2, Opp rolls for Acts of Faith and passes. Selects Hand of the Emperor, targets his deepstriking Seraphim Squad, who then appear on the board out of 9" and move up to 12".

Now my Opp's argument is it doesn't specify that he has to target a unit on the battlefield. In addition, they can "move as if it was the movement phase" getting around the rules that deep strikers arrive at the end of the movement phase and thus can't move.

I could see this technically working if the Act of Faith makes the Seraphim arrive on the field and then move as part of the regular movement phase, but targeting a unit in deep strike still sounds weird since I was under the impression that we treat units off the board as not existing; but without knowing where the specific rule is to counter I'm sort of at the mercy of the lack of clarification of Acts of Faith am I not?

Thanks for taking the time, team. What do you think?

 Ardent343 wrote:
Hey dakka dakka!

Pretty new to the hobby, so I'm hoping you can help me out with something that seemed a little bit like shenanigans at my FLGS in a recent battle.

My Admech vs Opponent's Sisters of Battle

Round 2 cause deep strike beta rules.

Beginning of round 2, Opp rolls for Acts of Faith and passes. Selects Hand of the Emperor, targets his deepstriking Seraphim Squad, who then appear on the board out of 9" and move up to 12".

Now my Opp's argument is it doesn't specify that he has to target a unit on the battlefield. In addition, they can "move as if it was the movement phase" getting around the rules that deep strikers arrive at the end of the movement phase and thus can't move.

I could see this technically working if the Act of Faith makes the Seraphim arrive on the field and then move as part of the regular movement phase, but targeting a unit in deep strike still sounds weird since I was under the impression that we treat units off the board as not existing; but without knowing where the specific rule is to counter I'm sort of at the mercy of the lack of clarification of Acts of Faith am I not?

Thanks for taking the time, team. What do you think?

Your opponent is wrong. "It doesn't say I can't" is not an argument. It doesn't say you can't add +100 to all your hit-rolls either. The Seraphim can't be targeted by the Act of Faith because the rule doesn't allow them to be targeted. Also his argument that they can circumvent coming at the end of the turn is total nonsense. Even if they were given permission to move, they must do so at the end of the movement phase.

Broken Sig Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.

Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking; but just to be extra clarifying-

The wording on Acts of Faith says- "One unit from your army..." which would still allow to target a unit in reserve unless there is a blanket rule that states that you can't target one right?

The wording on the free move is "move as if it was the movement phase" though that would mean you straight up could not start your deepstrike cause it only specifies a Move, right?

I just need to have a strong RAW counter to this strategy in case I'm unlucky enough to get to fight Opp again, since Opp seems to be deliberately misinterpreting RAW for his benefit.

 Ardent343 wrote:
Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking; but just to be extra clarifying-

The wording on Acts of Faith says- "One unit from your army..." which would still allow to target a unit in reserve unless there is a blanket rule that states that you can't target one right?

The wording on the free move is "move as if it was the movement phase" though that would mean you straight up could not start your deepstrike cause it only specifies a Move, right?

I just need to have a strong RAW counter to this strategy in case I'm unlucky enough to get to fight Opp again, since Opp seems to be deliberately misinterpreting RAW for his benefit.

No. Again, "it doesn't say I can't" is not an argument. You need permission to target a unit not on the battlefield, which you do not do. For example, the CSM relic "The Murder Sword" says "At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn has begun, you must nominate one enemy CHARACTER to be the target of the bearer of the Murder Sword (this can be a character that is not yet set up on the battlefield)."

This means, by default, you cannot target units that are not on the battlefield.

And again, their rule allows them to be set up at the end of the movement phase. Even if you could use the AoF, if it's not the end of the movement phase then they are breaking the rules.

In short, explain this to them, and if they continue to disagree/cry about it, don't play them anymore because they are willingly ignoring the rules.

Broken Sig Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.

Q: Can models that are not on the battlefield benefit from Acts of Faith?
A: No.

Index Imperium 2 FAQ.

And for the record: the RaW wording did allow you to invoke acts of faith when in reserve, but the effects l of those acts don't logically make sense when the unit is in reserve, and would effectively do nothing.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Q: Can models that are not on the battlefield benefit from Acts of Faith?
A: No.

Index Imperium 2 FAQ.

And for the record: the RaW wording did allow you to invoke acts of faith when in reserve, but the effects l of those acts don't logically make sense when the unit is in reserve, and would effectively do nothing.

Agreed.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Q: Can models that are not on the battlefield benefit from Acts of Faith?
A: No.

Index Imperium 2 FAQ.

And for the record: the RaW wording did allow you to invoke acts of faith when in reserve, but the effects l of those acts don't logically make sense when the unit is in reserve, and would effectively do nothing.

Agreed.

Yeah that was my original understanding too but I didn't know how to clarify how/if you could give something in deep strike movement and how that might work. That's exactly the kind of hard answer I needed for maximum effectiveness. Thanks team.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Q: Can models that are not on the battlefield benefit from Acts of Faith?
A: No.

Index Imperium 2 FAQ.

And for the record: the RaW wording did allow you to invoke acts of faith when in reserve, but the effects l of those acts don't logically make sense when the unit is in reserve, and would effectively do nothing.

And the same goes for any units in tanks, meaning repressors, the troops inside the tank are not ON the battlefield and can not be affected by the AoF.

 zaahul wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Q: Can models that are not on the battlefield benefit from Acts of Faith?
A: No.

Index Imperium 2 FAQ.

And for the record: the RaW wording did allow you to invoke acts of faith when in reserve, but the effects l of those acts don't logically make sense when the unit is in reserve, and would effectively do nothing.

And the same goes for any units in tanks, meaning repressors, the troops inside the tank are not ON the battlefield and can not be affected by the AoF.

Thats actually slightly different, which is why it was addressed in a separate Q/A pair in the FAQ. Unlike units in reserve, a unit in a transport could concievably benefit from the healing act of faith, or the shooting one if they were in a repressor.