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Back in 2016 when the Deathwatch started to become available in both Deathwatch Overkill and Death Masque, I bought several Deathwatch models. With as much work as it was going to take to paint them all with differing pauldrons, I decided to move on to a different project. But, now I'm interested. Are they any good in 8th (including dreadnoughts, bikers, vanguard, veterans, etc.), or are they suffering the same fate as all the other SM chapters right now?

Thanks in advance!

SG

As a pure force they are regarded as weak, without a serving of soup there's some builds they can't handle.

They're in a pretty good spot, but they're a little different now. Primaris are a fantastic option as a meat and potatoes unit that probably functions with the mixed Kill Team better than Vets do. Vets still have their place, as SIA Storm Bolters make for excellent alpha strikes.

They really need some allies to help generate CP as they can burn through a ton of it. Dreadnoughts are pretty good in general, as they benefit from a lot of dice fixing that vehicles do not. The Forge World ones are ideal, but the normal ones have a place.

Bikes and Vanguards have a cut trick where you can attach them to Vets and combat squad at the beginning of the game to make a fast unit with Obj Secure that can fall back and still shoot and charge. They're a little gimmicky compared to the stuff I listed above, but they have their place.

Is there a Deathwatch Upgrade Frame for Primaris Marines? I don't see one. And, that left pauldron would be very tough to paint freehand.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
Is there a Deathwatch Upgrade Frame for Primaris Marines? I don't see one. And, that left pauldron would be very tough to paint freehand.

SG

The standard pauldrons fit pretty well on Primaris models, and the arms are actually reasonably interchangeable with the Deathwatch kit if you want swords, one-handed bolters, etc. for aesthetic reasons.

Yup. Primaris have the same size Pauldrons as normal marines. Gravis armor uses the same size as Terminators, though you generally have to cut off the top piece, as Aggressors and Inceptors don't seem to be designed to accommodate it.

At this point I feel that Deathwatch is doing better than Vanilla Marines. Definitely their Primaris Marines are noticeably better.

When you wound on 2+ regardless of enemy toughness that is kind of a good thing.

 Primark G wrote:
When you wound on 2+ regardless of enemy toughness that is kind of a good thing.

Particularly if you're rerolling 1's to wound.

Offensively Deathwatch are solid except for anti-tank. They also run into a lot of issues against eldar, but who doesn't? I think if you want to run a more traditional marine army where you use actual marines then Deathwatch seem to be the way to go, but they're still nowhere near competitive IMO.

On their own merits they are solid. Their weakness is that they don't really have the tools they need to fight the stronger, meta lists.

The Deathwatch codex is everything Codex Space Marines should have been. They are pretty CP hungry but with a wide range of tatical options that can answer any situation.

Also, Double Frag Cannons is evil.

Deathwatch is really good in a soup list. I’d very well with them.

 Primark G wrote:
Deathwatch is really good in a soup list. I’d very well with them.

I like Fluff a lot. According to the Fluff, the Deathwatch were sent only in Kill Teams to take care of any Xenos threats. They were either the only or the last to be sent to clean up a Xenos threat. I don't know if they'd actually really ally with anyone (again, fluff-wise).

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Deathwatch is really good in a soup list. I’d very well with them.

I like Fluff a lot. According to the Fluff, the Deathwatch were sent only in Kill Teams to take care of any Xenos threats. They were either the only or the last to be sent to clean up a Xenos threat. I don't know if they'd actually really ally with anyone (again, fluff-wise).

SG

Well it is totally possible for them to team up with other assets of the Imperium if it furthers their mission. Or if another threat presented itself it's not like they would throw up their hands and say "Sorry, but chaos is not my department. You are going to have to contact Garry in accounting to get someone else to help you." The Deathwatch is still a marine chapter and won't run from a fight or fail to use tactics like teaming up with others. I think allying them in to any imperial force can be fluffy.

DW arriving to support/rescue the local Guard under attack from Xenos forces is pretty much how most of the DW lore works.

I honestly don't know for certain how they good they are, or how their points costs stack up, but I know their guns are stupid good.

The AP1 bolters that wound any non vehicles on 2+, rerolling 1s, seems especially crazy. Lost a mutalith vortex beast like it was a squad of grots.

 LunarSol wrote:
DW arriving to support/rescue the local Guard under attack from Xenos forces is pretty much how most of the DW lore works.

This - it's like the legion of the damned. Things go south and the survivors prepare to die. Then Bam! Angels of Death!

There's the whole space hulk scenario, but how often to you play on spaceship terrain?

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
DW arriving to support/rescue the local Guard under attack from Xenos forces is pretty much how most of the DW lore works.

This - it's like the legion of the damned. Things go south and the survivors prepare to die. Then Bam! Angels of Death!

There's the whole space hulk scenario, but how often to you play on spaceship terrain?

Either you arrive to save the Guard from Orks or you get there and find they've got the situation under control and realize they're all Genestealers.

 LunarSol wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
DW arriving to support/rescue the local Guard under attack from Xenos forces is pretty much how most of the DW lore works.

This - it's like the legion of the damned. Things go south and the survivors prepare to die. Then Bam! Angels of Death!

There's the whole space hulk scenario, but how often to you play on spaceship terrain?

Either you arrive to save the Guard from Orks or you get there and find they've got the situation under control and realize they're all Genestealers.

There should be a rule that DeathWatch and Grey Knight players have to spend an extra turn after victory executing all the Imperial survivors from the player's list