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I know they've been removed from the Codex, but they were in the Index. Are they still legal to play in 8th?

Thanks

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
I know they've been removed from the Codex, but they were in the Index. Are they still legal to play in 8th?

Thanks

SG

Short answer, yes. Long answer, read the FAQ/Errata/Commentary docs on Warhammer-Community.com and you'll get the full explanation. Longer answer, they're legal now, but they probably won't be legal at some point in the future when the Indexes go out of print. Probably best not to invest too much into running them.

 Kriswall wrote:
Short answer, yes. Long answer, read the FAQ/Errata/Commentary docs on Warhammer-Community.com and you'll get the full explanation. Longer answer, they're legal now, but they probably won't be legal at some point in the future when the Indexes go out of print. Probably best not to invest too much into running them.

Thank you. I had known that Tyranids had gotten a HUGE boost in 8th (this was actually before 8th was released and shortly after), so I began painting all of the Tyranid models I had (with the exception of a few here and there). I had three warriors that I hadn't assembled or painted yet. I put bits in different places and used Gargoyle wings to kitbash some Shrikes.... but only three. Again, this was long before people even got word on a Tyranid Codex release.

SG

Just keep in mind you cannot use the Index Tyranid Prime anymore, so you can't buff Shrikes with them.

The prime could never keep up with the shrikes anyway. Thats not really an issue.

I have used shrikes to great effect as a surgical strike unit. 6-9 shrikes with boneswords, scytal, Adrenal Glands if you want, and fleshhooks. You get a little close shooting, bone swords are great. They cost 6ppm more than warriors equiped the same and get +6m and Fly (so they can bypass enemy bubblewrap and hit the targets you want to hit).

Shrikes are great. Underutilized in my opinion.

I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since they're in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

That's pretty harsh. What's their ruling on armies that don't have a codex yet? Are they disallowed as a whole then?

 skchsan wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

That's pretty harsh. What's their ruling on armies that don't have a codex yet? Are they disallowed as a whole then?

It's kind of different since an army without a codex clearly has to use the Index; whilst Tyranids have a brand new shiny codex and the modern armies are designed to run codex only. So in theory Tyranids don't "need" shrikes.

Shrikes to me are in the "we might one day see" pile if GW ever gives them an official model of their own or updates the warrior sprue to include wings. Otherwise I'd take any index only unit with a grain of risk in that you might not get to use it, esp in competitive events; esp as time passes and the index get more out of date.

 skchsan wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

That's pretty harsh. What's their ruling on armies that don't have a codex yet? Are they disallowed as a whole then?

Keep in mind that GW store operators are mandated with selling models first and foremost. Shrikes do not have models, so that pretty much makes that decision simple for GW run events.
It's silly, but there you go

-

 Overread wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

That's pretty harsh. What's their ruling on armies that don't have a codex yet? Are they disallowed as a whole then?

It's kind of different since an army without a codex clearly has to use the Index; whilst Tyranids have a brand new shiny codex and the modern armies are designed to run codex only. So in theory Tyranids don't "need" shrikes.

Shrikes to me are in the "we might one day see" pile if GW ever gives them an official model of their own or updates the warrior sprue to include wings. Otherwise I'd take any index only unit with a grain of risk in that you might not get to use it, esp in competitive events; esp as time passes and the index get more out of date.

Since GW allows Forgeworld and all of forgeworld is both running out of an index and not part of the codex design that argument falls flat.

We have an official ruling. If the unit has a datasheet you use the most current datasheet. GW allows for index units in codex armies as long as the index datasheet is the most current datasheet at the GT. There is no reason why anyone should be disallowing shrikes.

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

They’re the opposite of a grey area - they’re legal units.

What’s more likely is a local manager didn’t want units being played that he couldn’t sell to others.

Yep, they're absolutely not in a grey area until GW states otherwise. They have explicit rules, and rules on their use in printed material from GW which has yet to be changed.

If a GW employee is saying this stuff, they need an education or they need to read their own materials.

 Overread wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

That's pretty harsh. What's their ruling on armies that don't have a codex yet? Are they disallowed as a whole then?

It's kind of different since an army without a codex clearly has to use the Index; whilst Tyranids have a brand new shiny codex and the modern armies are designed to run codex only. So in theory Tyranids don't "need" shrikes.

Shrikes to me are in the "we might one day see" pile if GW ever gives them an official model of their own or updates the warrior sprue to include wings. Otherwise I'd take any index only unit with a grain of risk in that you might not get to use it, esp in competitive events; esp as time passes and the index get more out of date.

So I wouldn't be allowed to bring my Librarian (official GW model) that's riding a Bike (official GW model) either? If someone converts a Nid Warrior squad with eg. Gargoyle wings, it's 100% GW plastic and should be allowed.

This is just the opinion of one guy in one store, I highly doubt it is reflective of the wider policy of GW towards index units without models.

Stux wrote:
This is just the opinion of one guy in one store, I highly doubt it is reflective of the wider policy of GW towards index units without models.

I agree

I feel its more of the reason of "FW doesnt even sell shrike wings / I cant sell you warriors with wings so ban the unit". I don' mind it - I just warned for the OP if he wants to go to an event down the line.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've been told to not bring them to a local Games workshop run event since their in a grey area. That's a local red shirt ruling - I would ask the tournament organizer before bringing them.

They’re the opposite of a grey area - they’re legal units.

What’s more likely is a local manager didn’t want units being played that he couldn’t sell to others.

Because Gargoyle/Vargheist and Nid Warrior boxes don't exist?

Man, some GW people have gotten lazy when it comes to conversions lately...

The official GW line is that conversions no longer exist with the codexes. No Model, No Rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The official GW line is that conversions no longer exist with the codexes. No Model, No Rules.

We'll see how that works out if the rumors are true about the upcoming Ork codex having a listing for Looted Vehicle again. Though, technically, there's all sorts of models for that, they're just not listed as "looted vehicle" on the box.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The official GW line is that conversions no longer exist with the codexes. No Model, No Rules.

Measurably false. Some recent Codexes include pictures of converted models. The recent Astra Militarum Codex is a good example, showing a variety of converted Regiments.

"No model, no rules" and "no conversions" are two entirely different conversations. Conversions are allowed. Warhammer Community articles as recent as this week show off conversions. Units with no existing models that would REQUIRE conversion to field were in the Index, but generally aren't being seem in subsequent publications.

...not to mention Dakka Flyrants, GMDKs, all the concerted guys in the Guard Codex... but that doesn’t fit a narrative.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
...not to mention Dakka Flyrants, GMDKs, all the concerted guys in the Guard Codex... but that doesn’t fit a narrative.

Agreed. Gotta squish the facts into your narrative shaped box.