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The Cryptus Campaign begins in 998M41.
Cadia breaks in 999M41.
Then Guilliman wakes up, goes on Terra etc and launches the Mary Sue Crusade, and eventually saves Baal.
Do we have any timelapse ? Do we know how many years / months passed ? I can't see the War on Baal lasting so long.
In addition, when Cadia falls, the Cicatrix oepens, and destroys the tyranid's fleet. How long it is after that Guilliman arrives at Baal in the book ? The two events can't close, Guilliman has to go to Terra etc
Or does the Cicatrix arrives late at Baal or something '

Isn't this where it's 70 years on the terra side of the split and about 5 days on the Baal side due to warp shenanigans?

Oh, nice little bit of fluff, where does it come from ?

 godardc wrote:
Oh, nice little bit of fluff, where does it come from ?

Mostly from the Devastation of Baal novel (which is great). Beware spoilers.

The Tyranids besiege the Baal system for several weeks and more or less have the war in the bag (they’ve made sure to bring the numbers to win). The Humans hold out with a mix of good strategy, ideal defensive terrain and overwhelming firepower but the Tyranids overcome it all bit by bit. The end was more or less assured when the Tyranids bring down the shields protecting the fortress which had stopped the Tyranids bombarding the fortress from above and kept the skyswarms back, but the rift opens a few hours later.

What happens next is is that the Synapse web is shredded (caught totally unprepared for a galaxy class Warp Storm) and so the Tyranids are more or less paralysed for several days. Most of the Hive Fleet is sucked into the Warp (to be spat out of rifts across the galaxy) and what is left takes time to recover. The Indomitus Crusade arrives while it is in this state and exterminated the directionless Fleet. This was more or less the end of the Crusade too, Baal was Guilliman’s last stop before going back to Terra.

From this we can gather that 70+ years for some of the galaxy was compressed into about a week in the Baal system. It’s likely that the time distortion stretched backwards a little bit too, because the Blood Angels we’re incapable of making contact with anyone outside their system and they say directly that it feels like that is more than just because of the Shadow in the Warp.

The whole galactic time distortion must have felt really weird for the Tyranids too, given that their mind covers most of the galaxy and some of it must have been running either super fast or super slow...

Patriarch Phyrx wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Oh, nice little bit of fluff, where does it come from ?

Mostly from the Devastation of Baal novel (which is great). Beware spoilers.

The Tyranids besiege the Baal system for several weeks and more or less have the war in the bag (they’ve made sure to bring the numbers to win). The Humans hold out with a mix of good strategy, ideal defensive terrain and overwhelming firepower but the Tyranids overcome it all bit by bit. The end was more or less assured when the Tyranids bring down the shields protecting the fortress which had stopped the Tyranids bombarding the fortress from above and kept the skyswarms back, but the rift opens a few hours later.

What happens next is is that the Synapse web is shredded (caught totally unprepared for a galaxy class Warp Storm) and so the Tyranids are more or less paralysed for several days. Most of the Hive Fleet is sucked into the Warp (to be spat out of rifts across the galaxy) and what is left takes time to recover. The Indomitus Crusade arrives while it is in this state and exterminated the directionless Fleet. This was more or less the end of the Crusade too, Baal was Guilliman’s last stop before going back to Terra.

From this we can gather that 70+ years for some of the galaxy was compressed into about a week in the Baal system. It’s likely that the time distortion stretched backwards a little bit too, because the Blood Angels we’re incapable of making contact with anyone outside their system and they say directly that it feels like that is more than just because of the Shadow in the Warp.

The whole galactic time distortion must have felt really weird for the Tyranids too, given that their mind covers most of the galaxy and some of it must have been running either super fast or super slow...

Keep in mind when the Indomatus Crusade shows up they're really just moping up the remains, Gulliman was outright impressed by how the Blood Angels did.

Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

I can see that but that seems to be the standard victory over Tyranids. I would've preferred the multiple Chapter sacrifices being the deciding factor and doing more with the general population like using them to man fortifications so they aren't eaten.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

I can see that but that seems to be the standard victory over Tyranids. I would've preferred the multiple Chapter sacrifices being the deciding factor and doing more with the general population like using them to man fortifications so they aren't eaten.

you need to read Devestation of Baal. that happened.

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

I can see that but that seems to be the standard victory over Tyranids. I would've preferred the multiple Chapter sacrifices being the deciding factor and doing more with the general population like using them to man fortifications so they aren't eaten.

you need to read Devestation of Baal. that happened.

Somewhat overshadowed by the whole "They did well but got saved by a Khorne Demon with Angel flavoured beef rather than being good."

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

I can see that but that seems to be the standard victory over Tyranids. I would've preferred the multiple Chapter sacrifices being the deciding factor and doing more with the general population like using them to man fortifications so they aren't eaten.

you need to read Devestation of Baal. that happened.

Somewhat overshadowed by the whole "They did well but got saved by a Khorne Demon with Angel flavoured beef rather than being good."

just surviving as long as they did was impressive.

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

I can see that but that seems to be the standard victory over Tyranids. I would've preferred the multiple Chapter sacrifices being the deciding factor and doing more with the general population like using them to man fortifications so they aren't eaten.

you need to read Devestation of Baal. that happened.

Somewhat overshadowed by the whole "They did well but got saved by a Khorne Demon with Angel flavoured beef rather than being good."

just surviving as long as they did was impressive.

It is but it would be better if things were concluded without seeming like a writer wrote a note saying "plot device saves them" while making the story.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Which I think is cheapened quite a bit by the fact that it was won because of Chaos ex machina.

I dunno, Baal I see as being more a "triumph of survival" then anything. It's like one of thsoe horror movies where the guy isn't a bad ass because he beat the monster, but because he survived until daylight and the monsters went away

I can see that but that seems to be the standard victory over Tyranids. I would've preferred the multiple Chapter sacrifices being the deciding factor and doing more with the general population like using them to man fortifications so they aren't eaten.

you need to read Devestation of Baal. that happened.

Somewhat overshadowed by the whole "They did well but got saved by a Khorne Demon with Angel flavoured beef rather than being good."

just surviving as long as they did was impressive.

It is but it would be better if things were concluded without seeming like a writer wrote a note saying "plot device saves them" while making the story.

Have you read devestation of Baal?

Yeah, in Shield of Cryptus they were saved by necrons, it was fine, it showed necrons are more than just robots and that tyranids were so powerful, but AGAIN...
However, I liked that they were helped, apparently, by Khorne's deamon, it is equivocal (is this even an English word ?) And may cast doubt upon them (even if we, the readers, know that they were coming to destroy them at first).
At least it would have been, if it wasn't for Guilliman coming TOO and saving them. Two deus ex machina !

 godardc wrote:
Yeah, in Shield of Cryptus they were saved by necrons, it was fine, it showed necrons are more than just robots and that tyranids were so powerful, but AGAIN...
However, I liked that they were helped, apparently, by Khorne's deamon, it is equivocal (is this even an English word ?) And may cast doubt upon them (even if we, the readers, know that they were coming to destroy them at first).
At least it would have been, if it wasn't for Guilliman coming TOO and saving them. Two deus ex machina !

The Tyranids cannot be beaten by regular means. Every victory against Tyranids is a Deus Ex Machina. Whether its the sacrifice of the Dominus Astra at the Battle for Maccrage, the timely arrival of the Imperial Guard (who had been sent to destroy the Tau) seeing a common enemy and stopping Gorgon, the Necron-Angel team up, the virus solution at Tarsis Ultra, the arrival of Yriel to save Ilyanden from distruction.

Victory against Tyranids must be Ex Machina because any known element of resistance will be adapted to and overcome by the Bugs.

There was like 30,000 Astartes on the planet though,right?!

Mellow wrote:
There was like 30,000 Astartes on the planet though,right?!

A bit less, at the start of Devestation of Baal we know 25 chapters had shown up with indications of more. but they also say they had about 15 thousand with the possiability of reaching 25 thousand. it seems a bit odd as most chapters sent their full forces and we're used to thinking "1 space marine chapter = 1000 marines" but not all space marine chapters are at full strength, this is doubly so with regards to the blood angels. remember before the Primaris Marines the Line of Sanguinius had slowly been dying. devestation oif Baal notes he Blood angels where only~650 strong

I think; if it wasn't for Leviathan, they would have won. If say, it was a Behemoth or a Gorgon sized hive fleet, 15-25k marines and their allies would have been enough I guess, no ?

 godardc wrote:
I think; if it wasn't for Leviathan, they would have won. If say, it was a Behemoth or a Gorgon sized hive fleet, 15-25k marines and their allies would have been enough I guess, no ?

Easily, but that's why its Leviathan, because 1000 marines and their allies beat Behemoth (Battle for Macragge) and the Imperial Guard beat Gorgon with a little aid from the fish people. Bear in mind that they are both tiny in comparison to Leviathan and use vastly inferior tactics (Behemoth - full frontal assault, Gorgon - extremely rapid adaptation but little in the way of heavy support like Carnifexes and Titans).