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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

I really like this series of games, Lion Rampant, Dragon Rampant, Pikeman's Lament and The Men Who Would Be Kings, they're great 'beer and pretzels' rule sets.

There are two issues I have with them at the moment.

I think Lion Rampant is starting to show its age already and I think that Pikeman's Lament would actually make a better set of rules to use, especially for late medieval (100 Years War and later). It's the same system but pike don't really act like pike and shot doesn't really act like shot, they act more like billmen and archers. In addition PL has a number of little fixes to the rules e.g. +1 to order for your officer that make the game play better. It also has artillery rules.

Playing Pikeman's Lament just doesn't feel like you're playing a pike & shot period army. Pike have no facing and shot don't require line of sight for the whole unit. It's a fun game but it'snot pike & shot.

I haven't played TMWWBK yet, although I have a friend who uses it for Napoleonics with some success.

Thoughts?

Spain in Flames: Flames of War (Spanish Civil War 1936-39) Flames of War: Czechs and Slovaks (WWI & WWII) Sheffield & Rotherham Wargames Club

"I'm cancelling you, I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf." - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

Part of the problem you're having might be that the scale and abstraction is wrong for what you're asking.

Pikeman's Lament is meant for small action skirmish between 60-70 men on a side. Skirmish games of that size usually don't worry about facing and are less concerned about

It'd be like saying Saga's no good for Dark Ages warfare, because you can't accurately portray a shieldwall with the units on the table. Technically it's a correct assessment, but for proper shieldwall I should be playing a game that has 200-1000 men to a side, rather than 50-70 men.

   
Made in gb
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman





Leicester

As other people have said the scale may be wrong for what you're looking for

I would suggest having a look at Warlord games Hail Cesar, Pike and Shot and Blackpowder if you are looking for bigger battles they are also good beer and pretzel games

"Incoming Fire has right of way"

My website http://vox-tower.com

 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





TCS Midway

 infinite_array wrote:
Part of the problem you're having might be that the scale and abstraction is wrong for what you're asking.

Pikeman's Lament is meant for small action skirmish between 60-70 men on a side. Skirmish games of that size usually don't worry about facing and are less concerned about

It'd be like saying Saga's no good for Dark Ages warfare, because you can't accurately portray a shieldwall with the units on the table. Technically it's a correct assessment, but for proper shieldwall I should be playing a game that has 200-1000 men to a side, rather than 50-70 men.


To further back this up, many of these games are meant to cover the common skirmish or small scale operation. I know folks have said Saga cannot be used for Roman or Greek warfare, but it isn't meant to portray set piece battles, but small scale action which would have been fairly common in warfare.

If you can enjoy them for what they are, small unit actions, they are good systems. If you want the more traditional concept of mass battles (which were frankly rare) other systems will fit the bill far better.

Ronin or En Garde! aren't going to show case mass Samurai or large scale Wars of Religion, but they do a great job for Seven Samurai or Three Musketeers style action.

On time, on target, or the next one's free

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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474587.page

 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

The biggest complaint I have heard is that sometimes your army does nothing due to failed activation rolls in LR or DR. I think dealing with that sort of friction is part of the charm of the games.

Later games like Pikeman and Kings have mechanics to mitigate activation issues.

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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

No it's not a scale issue. I play Pike and Shotte for my big battle ECW fix. Muskets shooting through other friendly units (with little penalty) feels wrong. Pike blocks (not loose formations of pike equipped troops) having no penalty to being attacked in the side/rear feels wrong.

Pikeman's activation and unit coherency are indeed much improved over Lion/Dragon Rampant

Spain in Flames: Flames of War (Spanish Civil War 1936-39) Flames of War: Czechs and Slovaks (WWI & WWII) Sheffield & Rotherham Wargames Club

"I'm cancelling you, I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf." - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
 
   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

In Dragon Rampant I fail my Heavy Shooters activation roll consistently.
   
 
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