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What's the best way to deal with Slamguinius I'm a deathwatch and imperial knight player and he keeps messing me up.

Use your IK's missile plus stratagem to snipe him.

Usually he's In deep strike though

Try Rhinos tp protect your DW and push the deep strike radius out from your Knight without it costing you DW marines automatically.

Screens. If you play deathwatch then veteran squads with a few storm shields mixed in are a great option.

I played a guy using 3 squads of 10 guys. A bike, terminator and vanguard in each unit, along with 7 vets. Storm bolters all round (apart from the vanguard) and 3 storm shields on normal guys.

It’s a very durable unit. Stormshields against lascannon-type stuff, terminator against stuff with no AP. Can fall back, shoot and charge if necessary.

It’s not a particularly fun thing for Slamguinius to charge. He’ll struggle to get through the stormshield guys and might even take a couple of wounds. Then they fall back and put a ton of SIA into him, and/or you smite him or whatever.

The same guy also runs a unit of 10 crusaders, taken from the IG codex as part of a battalion. So he’s got 30 infantry, a commander and a psyker, who casts a power to give the crusaders +1 to their saves – leading to a 2+ invulnerable save. That works pretty well as a screen against almost anything.

And the list is finished off with 5 smash captains (two deathwatch and 3 BA) and Mephiston. It’s scary stuff. Went 5:0 at heat 1 of the UKGT. I had a practice game against him with my knights just before the tournament and it beat the hell out of me.

Whats Slammy packing? What makes him so good?

The slam captain is a jump pack captain with a hammer and usually a storm shield. BA have strategems to effectively get him 7-9 attacks per turn, the option to swing again, charge on 3d6, redeploy anywhere withincan9" on the first turn, and a relic to ignore overwatch. He's pretty mean.

Screening your high wound models is the answer. He can only redeploy or deepstrike within 9" of something, and only charge something within 12". So make sure you have chaff units surrounding your good stuff something like 10" away from it, creating a large space the captain can't access.

Once the captain does come down and kill something, you really want to kill him the next turn with smites and shooting so his fight again strats can't be used. Also don't leave any units within 3" of him in your charge phase, as he can heroically intervene into your stuff whether you charge him or not (all characters can do this).

Just make sure he only gets to attack once. Then he's not that efficient.

even charging him with a chaff unit isn't a bad strategy. He will take a long time to chew through, say, 20 guardsmen and they'll put a few wounds on him as the fights go on.

Yeah, he can't fall back and charge. He's really only truly great vs big ticket items with no melee invuln.

 DoomMouse wrote:
even charging him with a chaff unit isn't a bad strategy. He will take a long time to chew through, say, 20 guardsmen and they'll put a few wounds on him as the fights go on.

Wing of Fire strat lets him pick up from the board while in combat and redeploy outside of 9" without counting as falling back. And then he can use the 3d6 charge strat again.

He is going to get to hit you, you cannot avoid it.
The only thing you can do is use screens to push him away from your big expensive models and then shoot him dead after he has charged the screen.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, he can't fall back and charge. He's really only truly great vs big ticket items with no melee invuln.

That's the key here.

Force him to use CP to get out of those combats and redeploy. It's a stupidly CP hungry model.

 Ordana wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
even charging him with a chaff unit isn't a bad strategy. He will take a long time to chew through, say, 20 guardsmen and they'll put a few wounds on him as the fights go on.

Wing of Fire strat lets him pick up from the board while in combat and redeploy outside of 9" without counting as falling back. And then he can use the 3d6 charge strat again.

He is going to get to hit you, you cannot avoid it.
The only thing you can do is use screens to push him away from your big expensive models and then shoot him dead after he has charged the screen.

That will cost another 3CP at least

As others have advised, I've had success forcing the captain to fight guardsmen and other disposable troops, rather than something valuable. Failing that, have all of your units use the buddy system and stay close to each other (within 12" or so), so if the captain kills one unit he can be counter-attacked by something else that can kill him.

I don't know if Deathwatch have access to them, but the Space Marine stratagems "Hellfire Shell" and "Flak Missile" can tag the captain with some mortal wounds - you can even fire two Flakk Missiles in a turn if you have a cherub in your Devastator Squad.

Mostly what other have already said, in addition he is only a temporary problem, so don't go around purchasing stuff just to counter him.

He is only a byproduct of CP batteries, once those are sorted (probably in Septemeber FAQ), you will see him much less.

There is no reason to assume GW will fix CP batteries when they were just as problematic when the last faq came and they did nothing.

GW will address CPs because there are people using IG to abuse it and solely for that reason. If you don’t believe me fine but just wait and see what happens you won’t be laughing and most assuredly I will tell you so.

 Primark G wrote:
GW will address CPs because there are people using IG to abuse it and solely for that reason. If you don’t believe me fine but just wait and see what happens you won’t be laughing and most assuredly I will tell you so.

Do you have inside information to suggest it? because yeah unless you do I'm not sure I'd make these bold proclaimations

The simplest suggestion for dealing with CP batteries would be to make it so you only get the +3CPs for being battle forged if all your detachments fully match on keywords. That would make CP batteries and soup armies less powerful without banning anything.

It also makes sense that it is easier to command a force that all operates in the same way than one made up of disparate elements.

 Karhedron wrote:
The simplest suggestion for dealing with CP batteries would be to make it so you only get the +3CPs for being battle forged if all your detachments fully match on keywords. That would make CP batteries and soup armies less powerful without banning anything.

It also makes sense that it is easier to command a force that all operates in the same way than one made up of disparate elements.

So, for staying pure I get 3 CP. for souping I get 5 CP, CP recursion and access to better units all for a price of 2-300 points? I don't see how this would ever stop soup.

And Primark G, the game was in the same spot when they last Faq came out. Everyone was abusing CP batteries already and have been since the Guard codex first came out.
GW did nothing then. they might do something this time but there is no guarantee of that at all and past precedent says there is a good chance they will keep ignoring it.

 Ordana wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
The simplest suggestion for dealing with CP batteries would be to make it so you only get the +3CPs for being battle forged if all your detachments fully match on keywords. That would make CP batteries and soup armies less powerful without banning anything.

It also makes sense that it is easier to command a force that all operates in the same way than one made up of disparate elements.

So, for staying pure I get 3 CP. for souping I get 5 CP, CP recursion and access to better units all for a price of 2-300 points? I don't see how this would ever stop soup.

A 200 point IG force is not particularly effective force by itself. You have some ObjSec troops but they are weak and fragile. Its main value is in providing CPs to non-IG units that can make more powerful use of them. If it were not for the CPs, I would normally rather take 200 points of native force, it is only the CP shenanigans that makes it worthwhile.

Guardsmen are more durable per point than almost anything in the game.

It’s totally worth it for farming CPs. The units are pretty much fodder though. Just wait and see what happens mark my word.

Best way to stop command point farming is you can only use the command points your battalion generates on the army that generates them. Example I have a battalion of deathwatch and a guard battalion the 5 for my gaurd can only be used for that detachment and the 5 for deathwatch can only be used by them

So elite armies get shafted again. No thanks.

Hit him with some mortal wounds and/or bolters. He is elite weapon bait. People will waste all their plasma and las trying to kill him. If something has a decent invul and low T, shoot them with bolters. Their 3 up save is great against a lascannon, but it's just another 3+ against rapid fire bolters. I usually end up killing them with basic melee attacks and smites.

Martel732 wrote:
Guardsmen are more durable per point than almost anything in the game.

Somewhat. You're forgetting the IG Golden rule that a mere 30 guardsmen will not last 5 seconds if someone wants them gone.

A CP Battery batallion is just that, for CP. Yes it can theoretically screen and take objectives, but if the opponent wants it gone it'll disappear in the blink of an eye. This is doubly so now when things like those Custodes bike captains are running around. 30 guardsmen won't do diddly in most situations, they're only there because they have to be bought to get the batallion, very few people seem to seriously expect them to do much more than that in a 2k game. You'd have to be insane not to.

I really hope GW fixes it and soon. I am absolutely sick of seeing all these lists with that stupid battery batallion running around. It is horribly breaking the balance of codexes that were clearly meant to be limited on CP but have very effective strategems like knights, space marines, Custodes, and all the others. The reason guard got the ability to generate so much cp is because we have so many basic strats that in and of themselves don't do a whole lot aside from anything that targets a baneblade.

As for the topic, the Slam captain is crazy hard to truly stop. I get a kick out of the "just screen and you'll be fine." Any player with half a brain is bringing weapons that are more than capable of getting a hole big enough for the captain to fit. There are some deployments like Dawn of war where you just need to accept that he will make it to his target almost guaranteed, the only real counter is to split up valuable targets so he can't hit them all at once or bait him into going after something you don't care about as much. About the only times I've ever stopped him have been the very deep sideways deployment options like hammer and anvil, and even there that's more luck based than strategy.

There's a reason he's so popular, if he wasn't an almost guaranteed homing missile he would not see as much play as he does. At least there can only be one of him and with ITC he's pretty much guaranteed to give you free points, otherwise he would be one of the most obnoxious things to fight in the game.

It's the wording of the guard CP regen that's the problem and it is an easy 2 step fix.

Just go from per CP spent to per strat in your player turn and you may only attempt to recycle CP spent from one source/ability.

Boom, death of CP battery. Slam captains are reasonable, knight armies can now be properly nerfed based on baseline performance rather than this CP fueled deathnado they have turned into.

Guard HQ probably need a cost increase along with guardsmen and mortars but that should probably be handled once they deal with Kuvo's and Grand strat.

I think GW needs to look at their stacking problem as is (negs to hit and CP regen being the two biggest) and start applying some D&D type stacking restrictions.

Which rule says you can only have one captain with TH and SS and JP ?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Guardsmen are more durable per point than almost anything in the game.

Somewhat. You're forgetting the IG Golden rule that a mere 30 guardsmen will not last 5 seconds if someone wants them gone.

A CP Battery batallion is just that, for CP. Yes it can theoretically screen and take objectives, but if the opponent wants it gone it'll disappear in the blink of an eye. This is doubly so now when things like those Custodes bike captains are running around. 30 guardsmen won't do diddly in most situations, they're only there because they have to be bought to get the batallion, very few people seem to seriously expect them to do much more than that in a 2k game. You'd have to be insane not to.

I really hope GW fixes it and soon. I am absolutely sick of seeing all these lists with that stupid battery batallion running around. It is horribly breaking the balance of codexes that were clearly meant to be limited on CP but have very effective strategems like knights, space marines, Custodes, and all the others. The reason guard got the ability to generate so much cp is because we have so many basic strats that in and of themselves don't do a whole lot aside from anything that targets a baneblade.

As for the topic, the Slam captain is crazy hard to truly stop. I get a kick out of the "just screen and you'll be fine." Any player with half a brain is bringing weapons that are more than capable of getting a hole big enough for the captain to fit. There are some deployments like Dawn of war where you just need to accept that he will make it to his target almost guaranteed, the only real counter is to split up valuable targets so he can't hit them all at once or bait him into going after something you don't care about as much. About the only times I've ever stopped him have been the very deep sideways deployment options like hammer and anvil, and even there that's more luck based than strategy.

There's a reason he's so popular, if he wasn't an almost guaranteed homing missile he would not see as much play as he does. At least there can only be one of him and with ITC he's pretty much guaranteed to give you free points, otherwise he would be one of the most obnoxious things to fight in the game.

30 guardsmen actually require most of the attention from a marine army to remove. Pretty good for 120 pts.

Guard got the ability to generate so much CP because GW doesn't think anything through before they publish. Guard are not being souped in just for the 5 cheap CPs.