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how exactly does one attack the shipping lanes when all of the ships spend the entire time in a dimension filled with magic, deamons, and Kaldor Draigo? Do they just hang around a planet and wait for merchant ships to jump into the system? that seems like a great way to be attacked by the local defense forces or the nearest IoM naval assets? How does one pirate in the 40k verse?

Ships don't always get from A to B in one jump. Between the warp being unstable and the need to restock supplies and fuel, ships would be vulnerable between jumps.

Ships also have to travel between a jump point and their destination so they can be attacked there.

Ships also travel from system to system as A - B - C - Destination rather than Start to Finish as the Warps weird with time.

Keep in mind that the warp isn't just some thing you jump to and then arrive at your destination, it's been described as a "sea" with currents, eddies etc. so sometimes a ship will need to leave warp to recalaculate a leg of it's journy, ships will also need to cruise out and into a system etc. Pirates can strike then.

Also you cannot jump too close to a gravity well, so merchant ships will be entering a system at it fringes. Think about a journey to Earth from the Oort cloud. Its a very long way.

Tygre wrote:
Also you cannot jump too close to a gravity well, so merchant ships will be entering a system at it fringes. Think about a journey to Earth from the Oort cloud. Its a very long way.

And space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. Plenty of space for pirate vessels to hide.

Excellent points have been made. Also consider:

*That there are "rallying points" where ships have been known to hang out and group up for journeys. If you catch wind that a fleet is amassing near a certain asteroid belt and you can get there after the first guy arrives but before the others show up, then you have yourself a target.

*Piracy in the webway seems to be a thing. Despite some descriptions to the contrary, most fluff seems to suggest that the webway is essentially a massive system of caverns and tunnels. So piracy in there works in a more or less conventional sense.

*There is at least one story where dark eldar that manage to board a ship are then capable of yoinking it into the webway for pirating purposes.

*Warp travel takes a while to prepare for, and jumping back into the warp right after coming out tends to make unhealthy things happen to your ship's systems.

* Orks are easy to pirate. You just have to let them know you're around, and they'll come right to you!

* Someone might want to correct me on this, but I think you can "see" and attack other ships while in the warp. Doing so is terrifying for everyone involved, but you can do it. And if your gellar fields are being shot at, you probably want to get back into realspace in a hurry.

*Depending on the planet, fighting above a planet might not be all that intimidating of a prospect. Not every planet has effective anti-orbital defenses, and such defenses can be destroyed if needed. That just leaves whatever ships (i.e.: your targets) are in orbit to contend with.

The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

bibotot wrote:
The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

you seem to be assuming the pirates will engage warships, outside of Ork Bucaneers (whom are eager for a fight) thats pretty irregular and useally the result of a screw up on the part of the pirates. but 40k isn't just warships. there are LOTS of merchantmen, big fat lightly armed targets poorly suited for battle. THESE are what pirates in 40k go after, much like in real life. Basicly your average pirate goes after big fat easy targets that are likely to "heave to for boarding" after a single warning shot.

bibotot wrote:
The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

What possible reason would Necrons have for piracy? Their technology is better than everyone elses, they have magic ship drives so they're the fastest and they don't need to eat or anything.

There's also plenty of non-warp capable vessels in service - Ship of the Damned deals with an 'ancient pilgrim vessel'. Also, same-system piracy is a thing - look at Elysia.

pm713 wrote:

bibotot wrote:
The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

What possible reason would Necrons have for piracy? Their technology is better than everyone elses, they have magic ship drives so they're the fastest and they don't need to eat or anything.

Simple, captives. Some Necrons are actively trying to figure out how to regain their old bodies and are actively experimenting on humans. I imagine some Necron Dynesties might want human slaves, etc.I could see Necrons thus having a use for siezing a big fat easily captured ship

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

bibotot wrote:
The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

What possible reason would Necrons have for piracy? Their technology is better than everyone elses, they have magic ship drives so they're the fastest and they don't need to eat or anything.

Simple, captives. Some Necrons are actively trying to figure out how to regain their old bodies and are actively experimenting on humans. I imagine some Necron Dynesties might want human slaves, etc.I could see Necrons thus having a use for siezing a big fat easily captured ship

That seems dumb. Their old bodies are dust they need new ones which they could grow. They'd have them by now if they stopped mucking around.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

bibotot wrote:
The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

What possible reason would Necrons have for piracy? Their technology is better than everyone elses, they have magic ship drives so they're the fastest and they don't need to eat or anything.

Simple, captives. Some Necrons are actively trying to figure out how to regain their old bodies and are actively experimenting on humans. I imagine some Necron Dynesties might want human slaves, etc.I could see Necrons thus having a use for siezing a big fat easily captured ship

That seems dumb. Their old bodies are dust they need new ones which they could grow. They'd have them by now if they stopped mucking around.

hardly it's CONSIDERABLY more complicated then that

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

bibotot wrote:
The Tau are very vulnerable to pirates because they have to exit the Warp to recharge their booster. If the pirates can predict where the Tau fleet will exit, they can ambush it easily. Another dimension to this would be the fact Tau ships are only good in formation. Against ambush coming from the sides, they are hopeless whereas Imperial ships can still put up a decent fight.

The Webway is used by the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron. Naturally, these three factions can pirate on one another.

Other than that, pirates are rarely successful unless they are large enough to overrun a poorly defended world or taking on a space station. Additionally, much like in real life, the pirates can send distress signal to other ships and lure them into a trap.

The Warp jump allows ship to appear somewhere very far away, so picking off random ship passing by is highly unpredictable. Fighting in the Warp is extremely dangerous and can lead to both sides completely annihilated by the raw energies. A comic book depicts a Word Bearer and an Ultramarine ship fighting in the Warp leading to the former utterly destroyed and the latter trapped with no escape. The pirates can try to attack a ship docking in orbit of a planet but they might have to deal with many ships if that is the case.

What possible reason would Necrons have for piracy? Their technology is better than everyone elses, they have magic ship drives so they're the fastest and they don't need to eat or anything.

Simple, captives. Some Necrons are actively trying to figure out how to regain their old bodies and are actively experimenting on humans. I imagine some Necron Dynesties might want human slaves, etc.I could see Necrons thus having a use for siezing a big fat easily captured ship

That seems dumb. Their old bodies are dust they need new ones which they could grow. They'd have them by now if they stopped mucking around.

hardly it's CONSIDERABLY more complicated then that

Is it? Why? There's no reason they can't do any of that.

because the transferance was more then just putting themselves into new bodies, they lost their souls in the transferance.

Well assuming that 40k defines souls differently than AoS they still have no reason to be going around doing piracy because when you're pirating you aren't researching.
If they need research subjects then they could just farm them which strikes me as much easier than raiding like a Chaos Lord.

pm713 wrote:
Well assuming that 40k defines souls differently than AoS they still have no reason to be going around doing piracy because when you're pirating you aren't researching.
If they need research subjects then they could just farm them which strikes me as much easier than raiding like a Chaos Lord.

Not saying it's common simply that if you wanted "necron piracy" to be a thing, I can think of reasons why it would happen. it'd proably be "oppertunism" rather then planned piracy though

A load of freebootaz log into the noosphere and burn the latest blockbuster “astartes on the March” to a cogitator and sell it to everyone giving no teef to the original creators.

 Formosa wrote:
A load of freebootaz log into the noosphere and burn the latest blockbuster “astartes on the March” to a cogitator and sell it to everyone giving no teef to the original creators.

... the amusing things is I could totally see Orks doing this.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Tygre wrote:
Also you cannot jump too close to a gravity well, so merchant ships will be entering a system at it fringes. Think about a journey to Earth from the Oort cloud. Its a very long way.

And space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. Plenty of space for pirate vessels to hide.

What you did there. I see it.

Traveling through the Warp ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

Things to note:

~ Warp travel (at least for the Imperium) isn't from anywhere to anywhere, star-trek-style. There are certain safe charted routes, so if you know them (for a given system) you know roughly where a ship will arrive from another system or will head to to leave it.

~ There is a thing called the 'mandeville point' which is the minimum safe altitude above a world to jump into the warp, which defines how long you have to spend in real space climbing before you jump. Plus, if the world orbits close to a star, or is a moon or a gas giant, the star or gas giant itself has a mandeville point. Ships can spend two weeks getting to safe jump altitude, according to the rogue trader RPG.

~ The better your navigator or the more risk you'll accept, the lower you can jump, but for a non-warship, non-navy, non-rogue trader merchant ship, the answer is usully "not great" and "none".

~ Even if you have a system defence fleet, one or two ships can't be everywhere. Pirate ships can sneak around the system, hiding in asteroid belts or behind distant moons.