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Early to be sure, but can we start putting together some ideas?

First question:

Horde, using lots of Neophytes? Neophytes are probably too expensive to make that a viable strategy, IMO.

Elites, using Purestrains and Aberrants? Probably be too low on numbers to make that work properly.

So, something in the middle seems viable. Some Neophytes offering fire support (Zero point Heavy Stubbers seem viable in this low-toughness version of the game, and the three shots and good range might be helpful). Some Purestrains and/or Aberrants to go forward, surrounded by Acolytes to keep the numbers up seems good. Do Metamorphs have a different role to Acolytes?

Second question:

With the ability to include a purestrain from the 'Nids list, does that make a natural choice for leader? Ld9 could surely be helpful? Or does the need to keep your leader near other models to be effective, and the need to protect your leader mean a purestrain is wasted in that role?

 Fifty wrote:

First question:

Horde, using lots of Neophytes? Neophytes are probably too expensive to make that a viable strategy, IMO.

I think it might be viable. Neophytes get better leadership than the other "horde" models in kill team and 2 special + 2 heavy weapon allotments. Guardsmen have the same cost but worse leadership and only get 3 special allotments (though they do admittedly get Plasma) while Chaos Cultists get worse leadership and armor than both and only get 2 special allotments (albeit at a point discount). The other horde options (Termagants, Hormagaunts, Poxwalkers) don't have specialization options for leadership, so their potential numbers aren't going to be quite as high since they need to take at least one 15-20+ point model to act as a leader.

Another thing worth remembering is that Neophytes are the only "horde" infantry that gets both a main gun and a pistol, so they can happily switch between stand off shooting and charging as needed. They aren't going to beat dedicated melee troops of course, but they should be able to bully other shooting-centric infantry with a barrage of pistol fire and punches, especially if they have an Icon around somewhere to provide rerolls.

 Fifty wrote:

Elites, using Purestrains and Aberrants? Probably be too low on numbers to make that work properly.

You can actually get a lot of Genestealers on the table (they are very cheap, same price as an Acolyte Hybrid in standard 40k) but at that point you might be better off running them as a Tyranid kill team since most of the Genestealer Cult tactics don't do anything for them and they don't get Cult Ambush.

I'm still a bit on the fence regarding Aberrants. I think 1 or 2 is probably good, but trying to do a full team of them probably won't work well since they have no shooting to root people out of upper levels (fall damage hurts!) and are going to be very vulnerable to massed low quality fire without Neophytes or Acolytes around to attract it. They do hit hard though, potentially a bit too hard if you are fighting anything lighter than a tactical marine.

 Fifty wrote:

Do Metamorphs have a different role to Acolytes?

I think anti-horde is their main area of expertise compared to Acolytes, with Whip-morphs also having an element of anti-melee due to the way their ability works in kill team. The Toxin Gland tactic is really their main selling point, since it adds a flat +1 to wound rolls when attacking with a Talon or Rending Claw on models that are already wounding on a 3+ most of the time (except vs Marines or Necrons) and potentially hitting on a 2+ (unique to them, nothing else in Kill Team game can do that innately).

Also worth noting, the Metamorph Leader has an insane number of attacks for a single model in kill team (Genestealers don't get their Flurry of Claws ability), so if nothing else they are a good candidate to bring along to take advantage of Toxin Glands.

 Fifty wrote:

Second question:

With the ability to include a purestrain from the 'Nids list, does that make a natural choice for leader? Ld9 could surely be helpful? Or does the need to keep your leader near other models to be effective, and the need to protect your leader mean a purestrain is wasted in that role?

Still going over the rules, but as far as break tests go you use the highest leadership value in the team, not necessarily the overall leader's value.

Do i remember correctly that if you charged and failed you still moved that distance or am i remembering it wrong?'
Cant find it in the rulebook, pretty big thing for us, because we are so melee focused.

I've created a set of rules for generating cult members organically based on your performance in games of Kill Team, Necromunda and 40k. This was the thread that inspired me, but since I created rules, I put it in the rules forum. Here's the link:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/761453.page#10090647

If you don't like those rules, or they're too complicated or it would take to long to diversify your team, I would suggest thinking about your cult's story; I mean, I know this is a tactics thread, but if your cult is young, it'll be full of purestrains.

A moderately well established cult will get neophytes and hybrids.

Only a well established cult is likely to have odd mutations like metamorphs and aberrants.

Tactically, young cults are stealthy and fast; they implant weak and isolated targets to recruit minions who will help them blend. The attacks they make tend to be attacks of convenience.

Intermediate cults, especially those consisting of mostly neophytes, may still be cautious and avoid scenarios where they are the aggressor.

By the time the acolytes start to arrive in numbers, the cult will be more confident and more likely to go on the offensive, though they tend to risk only their more disposable members.

Once the cult begets another generation of purestrains, they begin to seriously disrupt the host society. This is when all out offensives occur with greater regularity.

I like a purestrain leader for his high ld and ext carapice. Makes for our most resilient option. A good trick I noticed is making one of your heavy weapon neophytes your comms spec so he can give himself +1 To hit as it is any within 6"

Timeshadow wrote:
A good trick I noticed is making one of your heavy weapon neophytes your comms spec so he can give himself +1 To hit as it is any within 6"

Neophytes don't have access to the Comms specialization unfortunately. Metamorphs and Acolytes have access to Comms, but being assault troops they are more interested in the Level 2 and Level 3 abilities (though the basic ability does have some synergy for Shotgun Neophytes who have similar effective range bands).

I'm still tinkering with Specializations on different models , but Zealot on Metamorphs seems like a stand-out option. The basic level 1 Zealot ability works well with their already high number of attacks and the added strength pairs well with their Toxin Gland tactic (goes from hurting Marines on a 3+ to a 2+). If I haven't missed anything, the level 1 Zealot Tactic also looks like it works with the Metamorph Talon's +1 to hit rolls ability, so it will trigger 1/3rd of the time instead of 1/6th of the time and as mentioned Metamorphs have a lot of attacks. The other abilities aren't quite as vital, though the Level 2 Zealot Tactic does allow them to get the benefits of a Whip with a Talon or Claw.

I will probably do a primer of sorts like I did for the Index once I've gotten a few more games in to get a better feel for things. My initial feelings are that GSC is probably going to be one of the better swarmy armies given the relatively good leadership the army has and access to hard hitting weaponry on fairly cheap bodies.

I'm finding Neophyte shooting (and shooting in general) to kinda suck actually. They're great so far for surrounding/controlling objectives, but not really seeing much use of them otherwise, especially with mediocre shooting stats and STR3.

Genestealers and Aberrants have done a ton of work for me so far, and I've enjoyed the use of the grenade launcher because of its flexibility.

6p Neophyte Leader: chainsword, web pistol
6p Demo neophyte gunner: heavy stubber
8p Heavy neophyte gunner: seismic cannon
9p Scout neophyte gunner: flamer
10p Neophyte hybrid: cult icon, shotgun
12p Genestealer: rending claws, toxin sacs, flesh hooks
12p Genestealer: rending claws, toxin sacs
12p Genestealer: rending claws, toxin sacs
12p Genestealer: rending claws, toxin sacs
12p Genestealer: acid maw, toxin sacs
99p

Cheap and cowardly Leader just tries to stay alive and hide to keep those extra command points coming.
Medic helping advances and charges while giving cult icon aura to the main horde of genestealers.
Demo praying stubber will actually hit someone to the head.
Scout advancing to flamer range like hell.

This being said neophytes will hopefully catch some fire for being specialists while the actual murderpower does heavy lifthing and is expendable at it.

I will mainly play against marines and imperial guard. Thoughts?

Edit. fixed points and roster

I'd be tempted to drop a stealer, take a couple of cheap neophytes, give them pistols and run them forward centrally in front of the stealers to soak up shooting, and hopefully help the stealers get ignored as they either follow or flank.

As it stands, I doubt your flamer guy will ever get into range. I'd drop him for a grenade launcher to provide some more ranged support and get the enemy to keep their head down.

I doubt the stealers would even need the help of the icon, so once again I'd be tempted to drop it and get some more meat shield neophytes.

 Fifty wrote:
I'd be tempted to drop a stealer, take a couple of cheap neophytes, give them pistols and run them forward centrally in front of the stealers to soak up shooting, and hopefully help the stealers get ignored as they either follow or flank.

As it stands, I doubt your flamer guy will ever get into range. I'd drop him for a grenade launcher to provide some more ranged support and get the enemy to keep their head down.

I doubt the stealers would even need the help of the icon, so once again I'd be tempted to drop it and get some more meat shield neophytes.

I've read good things about the flamer. Auto hitting in kill team seems golden.

But I made miscalculation in the earlier post. Flamer was missing the weapon price of 3 points so I have to drop one genestealer anyways.

I'll add one neophyte with either seismic cannon or grenade launcher or mining laser. Seismic cannon with four sure shots seems better than grenade launcher with D6 shots but I guess single shot mining laser (S9 AP-3 D3 damage) could frighten my main opponent space marines more?

I think marines will laugh at cultists running towards them and not necessarily to death.

In that case, I'd consider putting demolitions on the flamer guy. You can get Str6 hits on it under the right circumstances. He'll get there slower, but probably survive getting there.

Demo flamer seems like an excellent option, though I'm not expecting it to survive to lvl3. Will have to see which is better. My first game playing GSC should be within a week.

I just discovered grenade launcher doesn't suffer -1 to hit for being long range. Gonna give it a try with a demo specialist.

pampatus wrote:
I just discovered grenade launcher doesn't suffer -1 to hit for being long range. Gonna give it a try with a demo specialist.

The Grenade Launcher is an Assault weapon so it does suffer the penalty for long range firing. Only weapons with the "Grenade X" type like Blasting or Demolition Charges get to ignore the penalty for long range shooting. I'm kinda wanting to try the Demolition Specialist with a Seismic Cannon personally. While the ability to move and fire from a Heavy is probably better, the +1 to wound rolls tactic is really nice as a fix for the S3 firing profile, allows the S6 profile to wound most things on a 2+, and in either case will trigger the AP -4 effect on a 5+.

Also after a couple games I'm beginning to think that Heavy Stubbers are better with melee centric lists than Neophyte swarms. My last game had a pair of them to provide fire support for a mixed blob of Shotgun and Autogun Neophytes and they managed to keep the enemy hugging cover most of the game but struggled to get through saves. With the melee horde armor piercing is plentiful so the comparatively "long-ranged" fire support aspect is more useful.

i am going to buy box of acolyte hybrids/hybrid metamorphs. How should I build them?
Or just skip it and buy genestealers?

I don't think you can go far wrong with at least two who are just hand weapon and pistol.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

pampatus wrote:
I just discovered grenade launcher doesn't suffer -1 to hit for being long range. Gonna give it a try with a demo specialist.

The Grenade Launcher is an Assault weapon so it does suffer the penalty for long range firing. Only weapons with the "Grenade X" type like Blasting or Demolition Charges get to ignore the penalty for long range shooting.

Page 31 Long Range rule box "Grenade weapons are not affected by this rule".

And I know weapon type says Assault but ammo says Grenade and we get to choose which kind of grenade we are firing. Same with space marines auxiliary grenade launchers.

pampatus wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:

pampatus wrote:
I just discovered grenade launcher doesn't suffer -1 to hit for being long range. Gonna give it a try with a demo specialist.

The Grenade Launcher is an Assault weapon so it does suffer the penalty for long range firing. Only weapons with the "Grenade X" type like Blasting or Demolition Charges get to ignore the penalty for long range shooting.

Page 31 Long Range rule box "Grenade weapons are not affected by this rule".

And I know weapon type says Assault but ammo says Grenade and we get to choose which kind of grenade we are firing. Same with space marines auxiliary grenade launchers.

Unfortunately, no. It's an Assault weapon. SM aux grenade launchers get around it because they're increasing the range of an actual Grenade weapon.

"Grenade launcher" is just the name of the weapon, not the type.

Jacksmiles wrote:

Unfortunately, no. It's an Assault weapon. SM aux grenade launchers get around it because they're increasing the range of an actual Grenade weapon.

"Grenade launcher" is just the name of the weapon, not the type.

GW makes my brain hurt

So - anyone have ideas of what to do with all the extra pieces that come on the neophite sprues? If they only gave me three more sets of legs, I could put the torsos to good use and fill out my troops some more!

Was able to utilize the torsos using the battlebox that came with some cadians.

I'm pretty new to 40k and getting into Kill Team with GSC. I recently picked up a box of acolytes but noticed that they don't give me enough bits to say put on 2 rock drillers on 2 different models. is that something GW does in general not give enough bits to make 2 or 5 of the same model with same wargear or is it expected to make different builds with GSC? Ie you really don't want the same wargear on multiple models with GSC maybe so they're more versatile. I keep racking my brain over a kill team build there's a ton of options for GSC. I'm considering Aberrants or Genestealers (Excuse to buy starter box) because of less options and straightforward play.

warpig wrote:
is that something GW does in general not give enough bits to make 2 or 5 of the same model with same wargear or is it expected to make different builds with GSC?

I'm also new to the game. I've been playing 40k for couple of months. My limited experience tells me GW really likes to sell people more packages. It's all about whether or not you want make a super competitive list or just play for fun. I chose not to maximize every squad.

Most of the time "special weapons" are 1-per box unless it is something that all of the models in a unit can take like Hand Flamers. The Acolyte kit does have two sets of Demolition Charges at least (suitcase bomb version and TNT bundle version).

I'd probably just build one of each Heavy Rock weapon and a pair of demolition charges with the box. Due to the cost and limited availability I've been finding the melee weapons are best on Combat or Zealot specialists that can get an extra attack with them (combat preferable since it is an always on +1 attack and the Tactic allows them to chain after another model fights to get their attacks in sooner).

So first proper game tonight. Great fun and good opponent. Used gsc and won against space wolves.
The abberant in my list was a good and suitably scary beast that drew a lot of fire, but poor saving throws all round are frustrating. Power hammer to the head of my enemy leader was very satisfying and quite effective (not surprisingly!).
The genestealers went down quickly with just one wound but the speed was awesome.
Agreed that shooting was somewhat underwhelming.
A combat acolyte with a cutter is savage, taking two opponents quickly.
Neophytes are squishy.
Good game and fun team to use!

I’m interested to hear peoples views about the weapons load outs for neophytes. Which do you think the most effective special and heavy weapons are? Are shotguns worth it? With such a short range do you ever get close enough to use them?

As I said in the admech post, I just got started with the starter set and I would like to know which is the best step to go on with GSC. I have the 10 neophyte hybrids from the starter box, what should I buy next? Acolyte hybrids/ Hybrid metamorphs? Genestealers?

DarrinTheOccult wrote:
As I said in the admech post, I just got started with the starter set and I would like to know which is the best step to go on with GSC. I have the 10 neophyte hybrids from the starter box, what should I buy next? Acolyte hybrids/ Hybrid metamorphs? Genestealers?

I bought a box of Genestealers and ran a game with them + Neophytes. The Neophytes still performed poorly, and I wish i had ran more Genestealers. I added a box of Neophytes/Metamorphs, and at least on paper my list feels more complete (i haven't gotten a game in with them yet). I think you really need to cherry pick the best units from each profile and for specific roles. For the Neophytes, the two best thing they bring: Flamers and cheap bodies. Flamers are pretty self explanatory. There are many uses for cheap bodies, including a cheap medic, a cheap leader, and a cheap Icon bearer.

As to what to buy next, both a Acolyte/Metamorph or a Genestealer box will get you to 100 points and give you some options. The genestealers are less variety, but are tankier (T4 and 5+ invul save). The Acolytes have some pretty extreme melee weapons, but they have to live long enough to use them.

DarrinTheOccult wrote:
As I said in the admech post, I just got started with the starter set and I would like to know which is the best step to go on with GSC. I have the 10 neophyte hybrids from the starter box, what should I buy next? Acolyte hybrids/ Hybrid metamorphs? Genestealers?

Genestealers are a good (and fluffy) add, though theyre a tiny bit monotonous, an acolyte box is a bit more fun because you can make all your cc specialists for your team.

I'd go acolytes, and then maybe an aberrant box when that comes out.

barnacle111 wrote:
So first proper game tonight. Great fun and good opponent. Used gsc and won against space wolves.
The abberant in my list was a good and suitably scary beast that drew a lot of fire, but poor saving throws all round are frustrating. Power hammer to the head of my enemy leader was very satisfying and quite effective (not surprisingly!).
The genestealers went down quickly with just one wound but the speed was awesome.
Agreed that shooting was somewhat underwhelming.
A combat acolyte with a cutter is savage, taking two opponents quickly.
Neophytes are squishy.
Good game and fun team to use!

Hi there. Just want d to ask what weapon load outs did you go for in you list and which weapons did you think performed best and worst in you game?