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With Kill Team out, its time the crons had a kill team tactics thread to avoid cluttering up the 40k thread.
I'll update this main post with interesting info as we go. Everything below is just my opinion for now. I think Necrons might actually be solid for KT, we'll rarely fail break tests with native LD 10 across the board, meaning you will likely be able to fight to the last man. That, and with the ever-present possibility for RP, they can stick around and regain effectiveness late in a match. Slower move speed is less an issue on smaller boards too.
The Units with tentative grades
Spoiler:
Immortals: B+/B With strength 5+ being something relatively rare in KT, having it native to these guys for no additional cost is great. Better with Gauss than Tesla at close range. Now with Errata, Tesla always procs on a natural 6. Warriors: B- "Cheap" bodies, still with the classic statline. Not super special, but solid. Hurt by their 4+ armor save however. Deathmarks: B+ Rapid fire Sniper Rifles? Not bad not bad. Pair well with the Sniper Specialty or a comms specialist. Flayed Ones: B+ A solid close combat troop vs hordes 3 attacks base rerolling to wound makes for consistent damage for those that can get them into melee safely. Work well with the Combat and Zealot Specialties.
The Strategems
Spoiler:
MSS- 2cp to have your enemy fire a ranged weapon if you can roll over their LD on a 2d6 - I see it as situational, only really good vs low LD factions, as you need to be within 6 inches to use it. Overcharged Disintegration - 2cp to boost the AP of a weapon by 1 - I think this is a lot more useful. Prime Reanimation Protocols -2cp Roll an extra die on the injury roll table, and apply only the lowest result Targeting Routines 1CP Add one to hit rolls against an obscured target. This in my mind is the best kill team we have. Flensing Fury 1CP Each to wound roll of a 6 when attacking with a designated flayed one deals 1 additional damage. Meh. Dispersion Fields 1CP Increase the strength of 1 designated model by 1 until the end of the phase.
The Special Rules
Spoiler:
Reanimation Protocols - On an injury roll of a 6, the model instead of being taken out of action is healed to full health. - I'd prefer FNP, but this isn't too bad. Can restore the effectiveness of a model after substantial damage.
Example 100 pt kill teams
Spoiler:
3x Immortals 2x Deathmarks 1x Warrior 1x Flayed One
4x Immortals 3x Warriors
6x Deathmarks 1x Flayed One
4x Deathmarks 4x Flayed Ones
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/10/23 02:59:28
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
I had my 1st game last night and have some info I would like to pass on.
- Sniper Deathamrks are pretty good. Re-rolling 1s to hit with a +1 to hit from a Comms unit or Necron Gem makes them pretty Reliable.
- Don't be afraid to push your Flayed Ones up, I left mine hanging back for 2 turns a regretted it.
- Zealot Flayed Ones is nasty! +1S and +1A when charging. Makes them 4 attacks at S5. Pretty good against anything T4
- Leader should be a tax unit or something your going to be holding back all game. Immortal or Warrior would be the best to use,
- Warriors are the best for Comms as you wont be buffing them but they let any model with 6" to have +1 to hit in shooting phase. Could also put it on a FO for 2pts less and have that then as an anti-charge unit. just put it into LOS terrain and make sure nothing pokes out.
Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/01 14:32:47
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
- Leader should be a tax unit or something your going to be holding back all game. Immortal or Warrior would be the best to use,
I made my Leader a Deathmark (also had a Sniper Deathmark) and they just hung out in the back together taking potshots. Worked quite well.
I mostly agree with the gradings except I rate Warriors a bit lower. I have them because they're cheap, but tbh I might swap them for more Flayed Ones, which are great for zoning and soaking fire. A Combat Flayed One is really strong and becomes a real power player in Take Prisoners.
I also had my 1st game but one on easy mode (no specialists and command points AND obj. markers).
Snipers and Immortals are great but i dont like FOs that much and just keeping them at the back feels like a waste to me but ill give them another try and try to move them better. Can you charge through terrain? And can you charge what you dont see?
What are the best specialist traits for our crons?
Overcharged Disintegration does not work on Deathmarks.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: I also had my 1st game but one on easy mode (no specialists and command points AND obj. markers).
Snipers and Immortals are great but i dont like FOs that much and just keeping them at the back feels like a waste to me but ill give them another try and try to move them better. Can you charge through terrain? And can you charge what you dont see?
What are the best specialist traits for our crons?
Why would you keep FOs at the back? Any melee-only unit that just sits back is always going to feel pointless.
Read the rules. Any terrain feature that is less than an inch and a half (so most scatter terrain and broken sections of walls) can be moved through with no penalty. Walls cannot be. Windows, you'd have to check with your opponent at the very least but many people play you can move through them. So yeah, a charge can vault over a small wall, and remember that even if you don't make the full charge distance, you can pile-in 3" as long as you survive shooting.
Hypercharging a Tesla immortal can be pretty hilarious, making them the Sniper, using Careful Aim and giving them another +1 from a Comms specialist to make them pop 3 hits on 4+, great for chewing through hordes of enemies.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
To those people dismissing warriors, I would like to point out that for 3 immortals you can have 4 warriors. That may not seem like much, and on a 40k scale I would agree, but thanks to killteam's low model count and the flesh wound mechanic that extra body can go a long way.
To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?"
Venerable Ironclad wrote: To those people dismissing warriors, I would like to point out that for 3 immortals you can have 4 warriors. That may not seem like much, and on a 40k scale I would agree, but thanks to killteam's low model count and the flesh wound mechanic that extra body can go a long way.
yeah, but the warrior has an inferior gun and less durability. If it were a 3+ save I'd agree with you, but that 16% decrease in saving a wound doesn't seem good to me.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Venerable Ironclad wrote: To those people dismissing warriors, I would like to point out that for 3 immortals you can have 4 warriors. That may not seem like much, and on a 40k scale I would agree, but thanks to killteam's low model count and the flesh wound mechanic that extra body can go a long way.
yeah, but the warrior has an inferior gun and less durability. If it were a 3+ save I'd agree with you, but that 16% decrease in saving a wound doesn't seem good to me.
I agree. Their guns for the purpose of KT are roughly equal, but I'd much, much rather pay the 4 points more for an immortal with Gauss, and get +1 Armor Save, +1 STR gun, -2 AP on gun.
If you know your opponent is running like...a gaunt horde i guess they'd do the trick better though.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
Warriors are good vs low toughness and invul saves e.g. Harlequins. If your playing in a narrative/campaign and know your against stuff T3 with any invul the warriors are good for that. Immortals are for T4 3+ save elite models. Arguably you could say DM are better than Warriors though as both guns are the same besides -1 on warriors and DMs doing MWs on 6+ to wound.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
Warriors are good vs low toughness and invul saves e.g. Harlequins. If your playing in a narrative/campaign and know your against stuff T3 with any invul the warriors are good for that. Immortals are for T4 3+ save elite models. Arguably you could say DM are better than Warriors though as both guns are the same besides -1 on warriors and DMs doing MWs on 6+ to wound.
Well, and the Deathmarks ignore range modifier outside of 12". Which is really, really strong.
the_scotsman wrote: Hypercharging a Tesla immortal can be pretty hilarious, making them the Sniper, using Careful Aim and giving them another +1 from a Comms specialist to make them pop 3 hits on 4+, great for chewing through hordes of enemies.
Immortals can't be Snipers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/01 19:36:30
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
Warriors are good vs low toughness and invul saves e.g. Harlequins. If your playing in a narrative/campaign and know your against stuff T3 with any invul the warriors are good for that. Immortals are for T4 3+ save elite models. Arguably you could say DM are better than Warriors though as both guns are the same besides -1 on warriors and DMs doing MWs on 6+ to wound.
Well, and the Deathmarks ignore range modifier outside of 12". Which is really, really strong.
They do? Can you reference that please? Don't have my book on me
Deathmarks don't ignore that. Synaptic Disintegrators do, that's where the rules are.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
DarknessEternal wrote: Deathmarks don't ignore that. Synaptic Disintegrators do, that's where the rules are.
That being said, i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
DarknessEternal wrote: Deathmarks don't ignore that. Synaptic Disintegrators do, that's where the rules are.
That being said, i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
You should probably edit your OP to not suggest Overcharged Disintegration on snipers.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
the_scotsman wrote: Hypercharging a Tesla immortal can be pretty hilarious, making them the Sniper, using Careful Aim and giving them another +1 from a Comms specialist to make them pop 3 hits on 4+, great for chewing through hordes of enemies.
What are you even talking about?
iGuy91 wrote: i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
iGuy91 wrote: i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
Dunno. Might not suck...Maybe I will try it today and get back to you lmao.
Warriors I think are at a B- currently. What would you suggest they be ranked alternatively?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/01 19:47:00
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
iGuy91 wrote: Warriors I think are at a B- currently. What would you suggest they be ranked alternatively?
On paper they look pretty C to me. If someone can post evidence that they're actually worth their points on the table, I'd gladly reconsider.
Though you may want to edit the rating to use a colon rather than a dash (to distinguish it from the minus grades), so
Immortals: A-/B-
I'd suggest they keep a toe in B rank, as they are excellent vs t3 units with low saves like cultists, gaunts, halequins, where an immortal's higher AP just is going to be wasted. More bodies, more shots, hopefully more carnage if the dice agree. I think it gives them a potential niche.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
iGuy91 wrote: i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
So 6 Deathmarks + 1 Flayed One, then?
4 Deathmarks + 4 Flayed Ones is actually not the worst idea I've seen...
I'd set up my Combat Roster to pop that out in certain Missions, it'd be pretty brutal against Guard I think.
So I'm looking at the book in regards to Specialists.
It says you can pay points for higher level specialists (lvl 1 is free, but lvl 2 is +4 points, 3 is +8). But it also says you can only take lvl 1 for matched play (lvl 2-4 is for campaign only). That's a real bummer, as a lvl 3 Sniper Deathmark would definitely be worth the points.
Anyway, maybe it's time we discuss what Specialists combos would work best for our guys?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/01 20:24:26
skoffs wrote: So I'm looking at the book in regards to Specialists. It says you can pay points for higher level specialists (lvl 1 is free, but lvl 2 is +4 points, 3 is +8). But it also says you can only take lvl 1 for matched play (lvl 2-4 is for campaign only). That's a real bummer, as a lvl 3 Sniper Deathmark would definitely be worth the points.
Anyway, maybe it's time we discuss what Specialists combos would work best for our guys?
My Specialists grade from playing and watching games via TTS (Table Top Simulator);
Warriors - Leader/Comms - If your bringing a Warrior its probably the best tax for a Leader roll. Comms work to as it gives 1 model within 6" a +1 to hit.
Immortals - Leader/Veteran/Comms - Same info as above in regards to Immortals. Only buff is a better save to last longer. Veteran if your moving up to board to claim objects.
Deathmartks - Leader/Sniper/Comms - Same as above. Sniper as it grants re-roll 1s to hit.
Flayed Ones - Combat/Zealot - Both grant +1 A but Zealot also grants +1S if that unit charge that turn.
my 4 Specialists are as follows - Leader: G Immortal, Comms: Deathmark, Sniper: Deathmark and Zealot; Flayed One. other 3 units are 2 G Immortals and 1 Flayed One
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/01 20:52:03
Just for clarification's sake, when using specialist abilities that say "choose a friendly model," unless it specifies "another model", that specialist can choose itself, correct? (another friendly model within 3"... you're within 3" of yourself, right?)
skoffs wrote: Just for clarification's sake, when using specialist abilities that say "choose a friendly model," unless it specifies "another model", that specialist can choose itself, correct? (another friendly model within 3"... you're within 3" of yourself, right?)
Taken from the Comms section - Once per Shooting phase, when you pick a model from your kill team to shoot that is within 6" of this model, if this model is not shaken, you can add 1 to hit rolls made for that model in this phase.
So, I think you pick any model within 6" but you have to do it before shooting and sounds like you can't pick the Comms Specialist. We do have a 1CP gem that grants +1 to hit as well.
Odrankt wrote: when you pick a model from your kill team to shoot that is within 6" of this model
But he would still also be within 6" of himself.
If it said "another model", like the Leader lvl 1 tactic (Choose another friendly model within 3") then I could see that being a case of "Okay obviously it can't be himself if it specifically says to pick someone else", but without that I don't see any reason why they would have to exclude themselves from their abilities.
Is there something in the rules somewhere that I might have missed that says otherwise? (genuinely don't know, I only skimmed on my way to the Necrons section).
If not then you should be able to stack a couple buff on Telsa guys that might make them useful no matter the situation.
(though I still think the best guys to be doing combos with are Deathmarks)
Ok seriously, why are people suggesting tesla... ever?
Same stats as 8th ed. In 8th ed tesla>gauss in most scenarios because:
1. The battlefield is bigger and immortals die to a stiff breeze, just like anything else when focused. So being within 12'' inches of the enemy (For rapid fire, when gauss becomes better) is a death sentence.
2. There -1s to hit but not everyone has that.
In kill team you basically start in rapidfire range. So gauss is already better than tesla in most scenarios. However there are SO many ways to get -1s to hit that even in those edge cases where tesla would be better(where AP doesn't matter at all) - gauss still reigns supreme.
If you're taking tesla in kill team - you're making your list worse, not better.
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