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So Im a semi-veteran player returning to the hobby, last edition I had was 7th, is it still possible for me to play traitor guard? I used to use the allies chart/ detachments to form my old army but those dont seem to be around anymore. Will I be forced to use my guardsmen as cultists if I want to use them now that they are tagged as imperium and my demony boys are tagged as chaos, and just run them as a CSM army?

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
So Im a semi-veteran player returning to the hobby, last edition I had was 7th, is it still possible for me to play traitor guard? I used to use the allies chart/ detachments to form my old army but those dont seem to be around anymore. Will I be forced to use my guardsmen as cultists if I want to use them now that they are tagged as imperium and my demony boys are tagged as chaos, and just run them as a CSM army?

Forgeworld has the Renegades and Heretics army faction. Although their model line recently got purged, the rules can still apply for most of what you'd have to play. Bare in mind normal 40k doesn't support this, so if you play in an area that is anti-forgeworld, you might be out of luck.

Hey thanks for the quick response! Thats too bad though, hopefully there is a update or errata that includes traitor guard or something similar, Fluff wise, my army id a small contingent of fallen angels leading a group of more expendable humans wielding stolen or traded equipment, so perhaps I could run the chaos guys as Dark Angels or baseline Space Marines and keep the humans as guard if I have too.

Nah, Renegades & Heretics and Chaos Space Marines both have the <Chaos> keyword so they can be allied and run together in the same list.

Essentially the way allies work now is all Imperium armies can be played together, all Chaos armies can be played together, all Aeldari armies can be played together, and Tyranids/GSC/Guard can be played together. If you're a Necron/Tau/Ork player then feth you.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Hey thanks for the quick response! Thats too bad though, hopefully there is a update or errata that includes traitor guard or something similar, Fluff wise, my army id a small contingent of fallen angels leading a group of more expendable humans wielding stolen or traded equipment, so perhaps I could run the chaos guys as Dark Angels or baseline Space Marines and keep the humans as guard if I have too.

That seems like a good idea. Though the FW rules are perfectly legal (if not very good) and reasonable people should not give you trouble for wanting to use those.

 Crimson wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Hey thanks for the quick response! Thats too bad though, hopefully there is a update or errata that includes traitor guard or something similar, Fluff wise, my army id a small contingent of fallen angels leading a group of more expendable humans wielding stolen or traded equipment, so perhaps I could run the chaos guys as Dark Angels or baseline Space Marines and keep the humans as guard if I have too.

That seems like a good idea. Though the FW rules are perfectly legal (if not very good) and reasonable people should not give you trouble for wanting to use those.

the problem of colurse being there are some very vocal very unreasonable people out there

You're honestly better off just sticking to Narrative missions rather than matched play. RnH are trash.

Honestly the first thing to do is talk to your opponents, some might be happy to let you just play a CSM/IG list offical rules be damned, others may be less open. the internet's opinion is irrelevant the people you play with is all.

As above. Theres plenty of fluff on traitor guard. AM really should be the faction that can dro p Imperium keyword for whatever army you want them waith. Want traitor guard? Change em to Chaos. Want guvesa or whatever it is that guard are called that have turned to greater good? Change em to Tau. Mindshackled guard? Change em to Necron. This legit needs to be a rule imo.

Anyways, id just check it with your opponent. I know id be cool with you fielding guard as traitor guard.

Yes you can still play Traitor Guard; their rules are under Renegades and Heretics in the FW Forces of the Astra Militarum Index.

Despite what some people in this thread may say, the FW rules are completely legal and you won't find any trouble trying to play with those rules (there are a few people on the internet who claim to have completely banned all FW units in their local area, I have yet to meet anyone in person who shares this opinion. Then again, the world is a big place filled with many silly people).

Your biggest problem will be dealing with the R&H rules yourself. Most stuff in your traitor Guard army costs the same as regular Imperial Guard stuff but is worse: you have worse leadership (plus a lot of book keeping when it comes to leadership), you have worse faction rules (no regimental rules, only 4 rubbish cult rules), you have no orders and you have no stratagems (stratagems are a must have in any army this edition). Your only saving grace is an elite choice that can make your hordes fearless.

By all means, carry on with using your traitor guard army but don't expect to dominate games.

I get a kick using the Renegades rules from time to time. They're much less than stellar, but you can have a blast with them.

I've been enjoying playing R&H lately...but still look at regular guard and think it's so much more fun...orders...more units etc etc.

How crappy would it be to play the guard codex allied with CSM? I dont think my group would mind...but it still doesn't seem right.

Same boat with Knights. Renegade knights have much less than full on imperial ones. Would like to run my knights as choas but with the IK rules.

R&H is my favourite army but between FW discontinuing the minis, the rules being garbage - unless you run nothing but marauders and the FAQ nerf to Malefic Lords they have received a monumental kick to the scrotum as a faction.

Vaxx wrote:
I've been enjoying playing R&H lately...but still look at regular guard and think it's so much more fun...orders...more units etc etc.

How crappy would it be to play the guard codex allied with CSM? I dont think my group would mind...but it still doesn't seem right.

Same boat with Knights. Renegade knights have much less than full on imperial ones. Would like to run my knights as choas but with the IK rules.

You can run a Guard Detachment with a Chaos Detachment in non-matched play. As for Knights, you're well within the rules to use the Renegade Knight index for your Knight Models.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Vaxx wrote:
I've been enjoying playing R&H lately...but still look at regular guard and think it's so much more fun...orders...more units etc etc.

How crappy would it be to play the guard codex allied with CSM? I dont think my group would mind...but it still doesn't seem right.

Same boat with Knights. Renegade knights have much less than full on imperial ones. Would like to run my knights as choas but with the IK rules.

You can run a Guard Detachment with a Chaos Detachment in non-matched play. As for Knights, you're well within the rules to use the Renegade Knight index for your Knight Models.

Thats kind of my point. The Renegade Knight index is slim compared to the IK codex. Just like R&H it uses the same models but not as many options. It would much easier to use the same rules but change Imperial to Chaos, the wording etc. etc. to keep Renegades in line with the Imperial flavor.

As of now, R&H subpar compared to AM, and Renegade Knights subpar to IK. Could have been a simple fix by being able to run them using the same rules (changing a keyword) until (IF ever) a Renegade codex come out.

Don't the Fallen have both the <Imperium> as well as <Chaos> keyword? Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to spread confusion, but if that is the case, you can use normal IG rules plus the Fallen together even in matched play, together with knights. Just paint them as chaos dudes and you are golden.
Again, if I am wrong on that account, please correct me, I don't play chaos, so no codex/index.

Just use the Guard codex. Job done.
It's only a game. Slap spikes and stars on.
Job done.

 Lum wrote:
Don't the Fallen have both the <Imperium> as well as <Chaos> keyword? Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to spread confusion, but if that is the case, you can use normal IG rules plus the Fallen together even in matched play, together with knights. Just paint them as chaos dudes and you are golden.
Again, if I am wrong on that account, please correct me, I don't play chaos, so no codex/index.

I think that is only Cypher who has both. I could be wrong however.

I've always thought about this but with Space Marines. I'd always wanted to make an Alpha Legion army, but with the SM codex, for that extra level of ambiguity of purpose. What is stopping you from doing the same with Imperial Guard? Use the AM codex but chaos up yer stuff so it's obviously not "loyal". Keep all your IG goodies, but with spikes!

Nothing is stopping you, other than keywords. While you can simply paint your guard up as baddies and run them as Traitor guard...you can't arbitrarily swap <IMPERIUM> to <CHAOS> if you're playing someone other than a friend whose on board with it.

So if you want CSM allies, etc. you can't.

 Elbows wrote:
Nothing is stopping you, other than keywords. While you can simply paint your guard up as baddies and run them as Traitor guard...you can't arbitrarily swap <IMPERIUM> to <CHAOS> if you're playing someone other than a friend whose on board with it.

So if you want CSM allies, etc. you can't.

You can, just not in Matched Play. In Narrative play it's totally legal to take a HERETIC ASTARTES detachment along with an ASTRA COPYWRITUM detachment.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 Lum wrote:
Don't the Fallen have both the <Imperium> as well as <Chaos> keyword? Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to spread confusion, but if that is the case, you can use normal IG rules plus the Fallen together even in matched play, together with knights. Just paint them as chaos dudes and you are golden.
Again, if I am wrong on that account, please correct me, I don't play chaos, so no codex/index.

I think that is only Cypher who has both. I could be wrong however.

Nope, The Fallen have the Imperium keyword as well.

Yes, as Imperial Guard.