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Hey all,

I’m starting Space Wolves, and I have a question regarding the Grey Hunters unit.
In the index it states that a unit includes Grey Hunters and a Grey Hunter Pack Leader, and you can choose to include a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in the unit. Now here’s the question. The rules say that “one Grey Hunter may take a wolf standard.” Does that mean only the standard Grey Hunters may take it, and not the Wolf Guard Pack leader and the Grey Hunter Pack leader can? If both the Grey Hunters, Grey Hunter Pack Leader, and Wolf Guard Pack Leader can take it, wouldn’t the rules state “One model may take a wolf standard”

That's exactly it; if it says a Grey Hunter, only a Grey Hunter can take it, not a Wolf Guard or Pack Leader.

kwoo12 wrote:
Hey all,

I’m starting Space Wolves, and I have a question regarding the Grey Hunters unit.
In the index it states that a unit includes Grey Hunters and a Grey Hunter Pack Leader, and you can choose to include a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in the unit. Now here’s the question. The rules say that “one Grey Hunter may take a wolf standard.” Does that mean only the standard Grey Hunters may take it, and not the Wolf Guard Pack leader and the Grey Hunter Pack leader can? If both the Grey Hunters, Grey Hunter Pack Leader, and Wolf Guard Pack Leader can take it, wouldn’t the rules state “One model may take a wolf standard”

If it says Grey Hunter, then only a Grey Hunter can take it. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter.

I have a question about this logic. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, despite being having 'Grey Hunter' in the name, as well as the Grey Hunter keyword in the unit entry. Does this logic also follow that Space Marine Sergeants (in any squad) aren't actually Tactical Marines, Deathwatch Marines, Long Fangs, Scouts, etc etc, or Eldar Exarchs also aren't actually the aspect they're from? Ergo, does this mean that any strategem that states "tactical marines only" (or Eldar aspect whatever squad, for example) would not either apply to the unit of tactical marines, or only apply to the squad minus the sergeant?

Thanks!

wraith wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter.

I have a question about this logic. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, despite being having 'Grey Hunter' in the name, as well as the Grey Hunter keyword in the unit entry. Does this logic also follow that Space Marine Sergeants (in any squad) aren't actually Tactical Marines, Deathwatch Marines, Long Fangs, Scouts, etc etc, or Eldar Exarchs also aren't actually the aspect they're from? Ergo, does this mean that any strategem that states "tactical marines only" (or Eldar aspect whatever squad, for example) would not either apply to the unit of tactical marines, or only apply to the squad minus the sergeant?

Thanks!

A stratagem is most likely referring to a unit name, not a model name. Show me an example. The first one that comes to mind is the Scions of Gulliman stratagem, that refers to Tactical Squads. Notice how in a tactical squad, the model names are "Space Marine" and "Space Marine Sergeant".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Notice how in a tactical squad, the model names are "Space Marine" and "Space Marine Sergeant".

This is functionally the same as "Grey Hunter" and "Grey Hunter Pack Leader".

Regardless, I may be misunderstanding. I thought for a second that you were on to something new with the above, however I may have misunderstood and you merely meant that the Unit Leader is not the same unit as the basic trooper - which I agree completely with. I could very well be guilty of overthinking this. I thought you had meant that the Pack Leader wasn't a <keyword> Grey Hunter.

Thanks!

Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are <Grey Hunters>.

 alextroy wrote:
Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are <Grey Hunters>.

Personal bugbear of mine: You shouldn't format keywords as <KEYWORD>. That format is ONLY for keywords where you replace the <KEYWORD> with a KEYWORD of your choosing. e.g. <CHAPTER> becomes SALAMANDERS. In this instance it should be "Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are GREY HUNTERS." Other than that you're correct. The distinction between a model/unit name is important and differentiated both RaW and "RaI", as proven by the Astra Copywritum errata.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Personal bugbear of mine: You shouldn't format keywords as <KEYWORD>. That format is ONLY for keywords where you replace the <KEYWORD> with a KEYWORD of your choosing. e.g. <CHAPTER> becomes SALAMANDERS.

So much this.

The standard allows the whole unit to re roll 1's for a charge or advance. Id just stick it on your special weapons guy, as he will be one of the last ones you remove. Its not the most useful item at the moment, and to be honest its 10 pts you can spend elsewhere.

As for the rules call, its fairly cut and dried. The pack leader or wolf guard pack leader cant take a standard, but for rules purposes they are affected by anything that would affect the grey hunters (i.e they are affected by the standards aura if they are part of the unit)

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are <Grey Hunters>.

Personal bugbear of mine: You shouldn't format keywords as <KEYWORD>. That format is ONLY for keywords where you replace the <KEYWORD> with a KEYWORD of your choosing. e.g. <CHAPTER> becomes SALAMANDERS. In this instance it should be "Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are GREY HUNTERS." Other than that you're correct. The distinction between a model/unit name is important and differentiated both RaW and "RaI", as proven by the Astra Copywritum errata.

I almost feel chastised, but then remember this comes from a guy who can't spell Astra Millitarum

Yeah that’s one of my bugbears...

To me that's not as bad as someone abbreviating it AM, however, so that it can be confused with Adeptus Mechanicus. or Adeptus Ministorum.

But, to the OP's point, yes you have to be able to distinguish between units and models, whether something is a keyword like GREY HUNTER or if it's just a line item within the unit.

 alextroy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are <Grey Hunters>.

Personal bugbear of mine: You shouldn't format keywords as <KEYWORD>. That format is ONLY for keywords where you replace the <KEYWORD> with a KEYWORD of your choosing. e.g. <CHAPTER> becomes SALAMANDERS. In this instance it should be "Exactly. A Grey Hunter Pack Leader is not a Grey Hunter, but both are GREY HUNTERS." Other than that you're correct. The distinction between a model/unit name is important and differentiated both RaW and "RaI", as proven by the Astra Copywritum errata.

I almost feel chastised, but then remember this comes from a guy who can't spell Astra Millitarum

I can spell it, I just choose not to. They are the Imperial Guard and always will be!

The do us all a favor and write Imperial Guard instead of annoying us with your protest name

Do we really need to be derailing the conversation here with that topic? If you want to gripe about it, open up a thread in the general forum. After you initial mention of it, you could have just PM'd him making the request.

 alextroy wrote:

I almost feel chastised, but then remember this comes from a guy who can't spell Astra Millitarum

I M P E R I A L G U A R D.