Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 07:06:25
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
What do you mean everybody rerolls 1's?
He means nobody overcharges unless they've no option or unless they've got a source of Re-rolls babysitting the overcharging unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 08:13:46
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
What do you mean everybody rerolls 1's?
He means nobody overcharges unless they've no option or unless they've got a source of Re-rolls babysitting the overcharging unit.
Ah, well he's wrong on that point then as you aren't necessarily playing CP's.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 08:51:43
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
What do you mean everybody rerolls 1's?
He means nobody overcharges unless they've no option or unless they've got a source of Re-rolls babysitting the overcharging unit.
Ah, well he's wrong on that point then as you aren't necessarily playing CP's.
Marines loyalist and heritic reroll auro, guard orders who else is using overcharged imperial plasma?
Sisters don't as its not holy
Tau dont have overcharge plasma, and markerlights for rerolls
Knights have Warlord Trait
Deamons don't have plasma
Nids dont have plasma
Admech I'll admit I'm not familiar with
GSC?
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
What do you mean everybody rerolls 1's?
He means nobody overcharges unless they've no option or unless they've got a source of Re-rolls babysitting the overcharging unit.
Ah, well he's wrong on that point then as you aren't necessarily playing CP's.
Marines loyalist and heritic reroll auro, guard orders who else is using overcharged imperial plasma?
Sisters don't as its not holy
Tau dont have overcharge plasma, and markerlights for rerolls
Knights have Warlord Trait
Deamons don't have plasma
Nids dont have plasma
Admech I'll admit I'm not familiar with
GSC?
What are you on about, are you saying every unit has a fre e option to have a character give them an aura. Just because you CAN, give them rerolls, doesn't mean they GET rerolls...
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
What do you mean everybody rerolls 1's?
He means nobody overcharges unless they've no option or unless they've got a source of Re-rolls babysitting the overcharging unit.
Ah, well he's wrong on that point then as you aren't necessarily playing CP's.
Marines loyalist and heritic reroll auro, guard orders who else is using overcharged imperial plasma?
Sisters don't as its not holy
Tau dont have overcharge plasma, and markerlights for rerolls
Knights have Warlord Trait
Deamons don't have plasma
Nids dont have plasma
Admech I'll admit I'm not familiar with
GSC?
What are you on about, are you saying every unit has a free option to have a character give them an aura. Just because you CAN, give them rerolls, doesn't mean they GET rerolls...
I never ment to imply they where free, more anyone doing plasma spam has a way around the overheat mechanic. I've only ever sceen it effect hellblasters against -1 to hit who then shot again due to an ancient. Overheat as a mechanic doesn't reign in plasma at all.
Ah, well he's wrong on that point then as you aren't necessarily playing CP's.
Nobody wastes CP rerolls for plasma. 1 isn't enough. You use one of the bazillion options GW hands out like candies to have ALL plasma shots reroll. You roll 20 shots and somehow roll 20 1's. well no biggie. You just reroll them all.
Rybrook wrote: Templates, scatter/ sustained fire dice and virus grenades
You forgot the best wargear card in the game:
Gyro-stabilized monowheel. Opponents would tremble in fear whenver they laid eyes on this model. No wonder why it was kicked out of the Ork codex and quickly forgotten. Only old runtherdz would remember this wonder piece of orkish engineering and tell tales in a hushed whisper of it´s otherworldly accomplishments while huddled around a campfire in the middle of a cold night.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 12:57:49
What are you on about, are you saying every unit has a fre e option to have a character give them an aura. Just because you CAN, give them rerolls, doesn't mean they GET rerolls...
It pretty much does. The only armies that have extensive access to overheating plasma also have easy access to re-roll auras. It's trivially easy to have those re-rolls cover most of your army, especially when the characters providing them are often very cheap. I can't remember the last time an opponent of mine didn't overcharge a plasma weapon, except in situations where there was a -1 to hit penalty. In every one of those situations they could re-roll 1s.
Duskweaver wrote: I'd like to bring back the 2nd edition distinction between Imperial and Chaos plasma weapons: Imperial plasma weapons didn't overheat, but needed to recharge between shots; Chaos plasma weapons were an older, less stable design that became the model for how all plasma weapons worked between 3rd and 7th editions. It helped to make Chaos marines feel like they'd stepped out of the Imperium's distant past, and also like they had even less regard for life than the Imperium, that they'd happily use insanely dangerous weaponry as long as it gave them an edge over their foes.
GW/FW have actually already brought back a lot of the other things that made RT and 2nd edition so cool and weird. Electro-priests, genestealer cults, termites, web and grav weapons...
Oh, they could bring back ork madboyz. That'd be neat.
I'd agree with that, but I'd also like plasma guns to be realistic, Blowing yourself up on a 1 out of 6 is so fantastically stupid from a realism and game-wise point of view. No army would give you weapons that dangerous. 1/6 in a whole battle is realistic but I can't be that realistic for the game, two 1's on a 2D6 is more realistic and not completely stupid, it is after all a lore-rule. I know they've brought back other thins lol we all know. Totally agree with madboyz as well but we should have fething warboars as well and WE's should have berzerkers on juggernaughts, I couldn't think of two better units that GW could relaese that could have popularity/rules that would make them sell like hotcakes. I mean SW's can have TWC, which even as a SW fan I find a bit ridiculous lol and Orks own all the real-estate when it comes to ridiculousness and they don't have hairy riding things...
Except it's not a 1in 6 chance given they gave everybody reroll 1's its a 1in 36 chance. But Plasma need a rewrite anyway.
What do you mean everybody rerolls 1's?
He means nobody overcharges unless they've no option or unless they've got a source of Re-rolls babysitting the overcharging unit.
Ah, well he's wrong on that point then as you aren't necessarily playing CP's.
Marines loyalist and heritic reroll auro, guard orders who else is using overcharged imperial plasma?
Sisters don't as its not holy
Tau dont have overcharge plasma, and markerlights for rerolls
Knights have Warlord Trait
Deamons don't have plasma
Nids dont have plasma
Admech I'll admit I'm not familiar with
GSC?
What are you on about, are you saying every unit has a free option to have a character give them an aura. Just because you CAN, give them rerolls, doesn't mean they GET rerolls...
I never ment to imply they where free, more anyone doing plasma spam has a way around the overheat mechanic. I've only ever sceen it effect hellblasters against -1 to hit who then shot again due to an ancient. Overheat as a mechanic doesn't reign in plasma at all.
Yeah but you saying they were free is the only logic to your statement. So what if there are way round things. I can re-roll a save, does that automatically mean there is no point in having a better save, because by your logic that is exactly what you are saying. I wish this unit had a 2+ save: you - you don't need that, you can get a re-roll if you use a character to buff that unit.
What are you on about, are you saying every unit has a fre e option to have a character give them an aura. Just because you CAN, give them rerolls, doesn't mean they GET rerolls...
It pretty much does. The only armies that have extensive access to overheating plasma also have easy access to re-roll auras. It's trivially easy to have those re-rolls cover most of your army, especially when the characters providing them are often very cheap. I can't remember the last time an opponent of mine didn't overcharge a plasma weapon, except in situations where there was a -1 to hit penalty. In every one of those situations they could re-roll 1s.
It pretty much does not. what if you need those characters for something else. Anything can have a buff from a character, saying that dynamic or rule doesn't matter because you can buff it with a character, is just asinine. Where are people getting these never ending supply of free characters...
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/08/09 13:23:32
Can we please not let a potentially really interesting thread get sidetracked into a dumb argument over the ubiquity of rerolls on plasma weapons? Please?
Anyway, even though they were my first 40K army, I haven't actually played Orks since 2nd edition. The more I think about it, the more I think GW should bring back all the zany Ork stuff from the Waaagh the Orks! era. Madboyz with multiple random behaviour tables (9 basic manias, with 6-10 specific behaviours for each mania, a few of which had further subcharts...), a billiontyzillion types of squig (including the tiny swarmy ones you sealed into pots and flung from catapults), cyboars, stormboyz dressed like WW2 Germans, Blood Axe nobz dressed like Imperial Commissars, Paul Bonner and Kev Walker artwork... Looking back, it was glorious.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/09 13:44:09
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
Although people would likely gak themselves, I'd much rather BS modifiers were used in place of armour bonuses for cover, etc. However, this is more difficult since they went away from the old BS chart which actually had a purpose when it was originally matched with to-hit modifiers in 2nd edition. That's a discussion for another time though.
Do not bring back sustained fire dice outside of anything like Necromunda. While an interesting concept, losing your heavy bolter or stormbolter for two of your four turns because you rolled a jam was really stupid. I loved it for Ork stuff and for crappy sump-weapons from Necromunda though.
Multimeltas are crap right now and should be Heavy D3 (even though I hate Heavy D3 as a weapon type). Magically losing their blast didn't make sense to me. Particularly since they're quite expensive.
Put Terminators back in Rhinos...hell put a dreadnought back in a Rhino.
Give Eldar Shuriken weaponry back its range. Reduce Guardian BS and WS back to 4+ as it always was. No need to make them on par with Aspect Warriors.
Take Orks away from the random close-combat monsters they were pushed into, and back into a normal fighting force which was just a bit stupid and dangerous, but could moments of genius. We don't need Ork boyz with 4-5 attacks in close combat. We need silly rockets that zip around the table and kill random thing.
Reduce Tyranid shooting and make them more dangerous in close combat.
Bring back a wargear option for cerftain characters - just a small list of 6-8 wargear upgrades which allow you to add flavour to your models. Can be exclusively limited to certain characters at the top of the food chain for your army (Captains, and such). Basically think relics, but not limited to one per army, and they'd have a points cost. I miss the days of randomly putting a bionic arm on a Space Marine to give him a Strength bonus, etc. Or the fantastic mono-wheel you could put on your Orks...it's a friggin' UNICYCLE ORK. Who doesn't want that!?
Lots of the characterful stuff has been sacrified in the current GW business model, and that's sad. The move forward with "no model, no rules" is really killing the cool factor of the latest GW releases. It saddens me. I don't think we'll see the full impact this has for a while, but it's a massive misstep in my opinion.
Elbows wrote: Although people would likely gak themselves, I'd much rather BS modifiers were used in place of armour bonuses for cover, etc. However, this is more difficult since they went away from the old BS chart which actually had a purpose when it was originally matched with to-hit modifiers in 2nd edition. That's a discussion for another time though.
Do not bring back sustained fire dice outside of anything like Necromunda. While an interesting concept, losing your heavy bolter or stormbolter for two of your four turns because you rolled a jam was really stupid. I loved it for Ork stuff and for crappy sump-weapons from Necromunda though.
Multimeltas are crap right now and should be Heavy D3 (even though I hate Heavy D3 as a weapon type). Magically losing their blast didn't make sense to me. Particularly since they're quite expensive.
Put Terminators back in Rhinos...hell put a dreadnought back in a Rhino.
Give Eldar Shuriken weaponry back its range. Reduce Guardian BS and WS back to 4+ as it always was. No need to make them on par with Aspect Warriors.
Take Orks away from the random close-combat monsters they were pushed into, and back into a normal fighting force which was just a bit stupid and dangerous, but could moments of genius. We don't need Ork boyz with 4-5 attacks in close combat. We need silly rockets that zip around the table and kill random thing.
Reduce Tyranid shooting and make them more dangerous in close combat.
Bring back a wargear option for cerftain characters - just a small list of 6-8 wargear upgrades which allow you to add flavour to your models. Can be exclusively limited to certain characters at the top of the food chain for your army (Captains, and such). Basically think relics, but not limited to one per army, and they'd have a points cost. I miss the days of randomly putting a bionic arm on a Space Marine to give him a Strength bonus, etc. Or the fantastic mono-wheel you could put on your Orks...it's a friggin' UNICYCLE ORK. Who doesn't want that!?
Lots of the characterful stuff has been sacrified in the current GW business model, and that's sad. The move forward with "no model, no rules" is really killing the cool factor of the latest GW releases. It saddens me. I don't think we'll see the full impact this has for a while, but it's a massive misstep in my opinion.
A lot of this makes sense but I'd love to see the random shots thing done away with completely. Just make every D3 weapon a flat 2. Every d6 a flat 4. Every 2d6 a flat 7. There's a ridiculous amount of pointless dice rolling in this game. Just as much dice rolling as in 2nd but, and here's the difference, for no reason except to make things awkward.
Proper terrain rules are badly needed. So much would be solved with proper abstract terrain rules.
It pretty much does not. what if you need those characters for something else. Anything can have a buff from a character, saying that dynamic or rule doesn't matter because you can buff it with a character, is just asinine. Where are people getting these never ending supply of free characters...
Yet for some reason I never see plasma being fired without at least reroll 1 buff for them...
You can keep saying "no it does not" but Real World shows if weapon has nasty effect for user if they roll 1 you can bet your house it's being accompanied by reroll. Especially as GW doesn't even make it rare or expensive to have one.
The multimelta firing as a heavy flamer was only for dreadnoughts. It would be great if dreadnoughts could do this. At least give the multimelta a small blast/d3 (it used to be a 2" template). Also give dreadnoughts there other bonuses, like salvo firing missile launchers (D3 shots perhaps).
Elbows wrote: Although people would likely gak themselves, I'd much rather BS modifiers were used in place of armour bonuses for cover, etc. However, this is more difficult since they went away from the old BS chart which actually had a purpose when it was originally matched with to-hit modifiers in 2nd edition. That's a discussion for another time though.
Do not bring back sustained fire dice outside of anything like Necromunda. While an interesting concept, losing your heavy bolter or stormbolter for two of your four turns because you rolled a jam was really stupid. I loved it for Ork stuff and for crappy sump-weapons from Necromunda though.
Multimeltas are crap right now and should be Heavy D3 (even though I hate Heavy D3 as a weapon type). Magically losing their blast didn't make sense to me. Particularly since they're quite expensive.
Put Terminators back in Rhinos...hell put a dreadnought back in a Rhino.
Give Eldar Shuriken weaponry back its range. Reduce Guardian BS and WS back to 4+ as it always was. No need to make them on par with Aspect Warriors.
Take Orks away from the random close-combat monsters they were pushed into, and back into a normal fighting force which was just a bit stupid and dangerous, but could moments of genius. We don't need Ork boyz with 4-5 attacks in close combat. We need silly rockets that zip around the table and kill random thing.
Reduce Tyranid shooting and make them more dangerous in close combat.
Bring back a wargear option for cerftain characters - just a small list of 6-8 wargear upgrades which allow you to add flavour to your models. Can be exclusively limited to certain characters at the top of the food chain for your army (Captains, and such). Basically think relics, but not limited to one per army, and they'd have a points cost. I miss the days of randomly putting a bionic arm on a Space Marine to give him a Strength bonus, etc. Or the fantastic mono-wheel you could put on your Orks...it's a friggin' UNICYCLE ORK. Who doesn't want that!?
Lots of the characterful stuff has been sacrified in the current GW business model, and that's sad. The move forward with "no model, no rules" is really killing the cool factor of the latest GW releases. It saddens me. I don't think we'll see the full impact this has for a while, but it's a massive misstep in my opinion.
It is always nice to read that also other people remember the glory days of 40K. Sadly the 40K noobs of today will never experience true orky wackiness. Being funny today as an Ork means designating your Grot as your Leader in Kill-Team and hiding him the whole game.
The step to turn Orkz into green Tyranids was really poor in combination with their reduced BS stat. In a game with only to hit mali, Ork shooting becomes meaningless. A good game design should therefore include both boni & mali.
For all of you who would try to play 2nd:
Google Battle Bible and have the time of your life.
It pretty much does not. what if you need those characters for something else. Anything can have a buff from a character, saying that dynamic or rule doesn't matter because you can buff it with a character, is just asinine. Where are people getting these never ending supply of free characters...
Yet for some reason I never see plasma being fired without at least reroll 1 buff for them...
You can keep saying "no it does not" but Real World shows if weapon has nasty effect for user if they roll 1 you can bet your house it's being accompanied by reroll. Especially as GW doesn't even make it rare or expensive to have one.