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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Hello dear DakkaDakka people,

Im a long time reader of the Necron tactics forum and a Necron player myself.

Looking at the current meta Necrons are starting to struggle again almost like during the index time.
New codecies (IK) being very strong doesnt help the situation either as one of necrons biggest problem in 8th edition is and was GOOD efficient AT.

Now what id like to discuss here is possible point changes for our units and even new/changed rules.

Post your ideas here even if youre not a cron player and just disagree with changing them at all just keep it polite pls.

We could send ideas we agree on to GWs rules team and link them this thread showing them the troubles crons have.
If the FLG guys and other play testers cant properly test the powerlvl of a codex its up to us the community to do so.

Now to the changes:

1st: give transports the transport keyword or allow them to „deep strike“ 1st round — Its just stupid that we CANNOT put units in transports but only in tomb world, have to wait till round 2 and ONLY deploy 1unit per transport on the board (or use stratagem) PLUS they cant move after deployment.
2nd: drop points for Nscythes and Dscythes, they are too expensive but I dont know by how much to drop them ALSO MASSIVE point drop for the Monolith...this is just obvious GW f...d up and doesnt want to admit it.
3rd: drop Necron Warriors to 10ppm
4th: Necron Warriors only. Give them an ability to MW vehicles on a 6+. Necrons didnt have that much AT in 7th but it was the game that was different. Vehicles didnt have as much wounds and most of them exploded to mass rapid fire from warriors. With 8th edition EVERYONE got the rule to wound on a 6 and the exchange for a -1AP feels like stealing. With this rule Warriors get more attractive to use and with them well maybe see silver tide back.
5th: give DDA 3d3 shots and min3D6dmg

Now this would be the changes that I think would help
feel free to disagree or to change different rules

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/10 10:51:20


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

First GW should fix the codex, so many errors in it.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Well they need point drops on nearly every unit. It would be easier to count the units that are fairly costed.

Which would be... Destroyers and Vaults?

Im also in the camp to raise the Tesla Annihilator to 2dmg
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Crons do need help, but handing out mortal wounds is a really poor answer. MW's are way too prevalent, and their introduction has just made it reasonable to say invulnerable saves arn't as valuable. So anyone stuck with old fashioned High strength High Ap anti tank gets even more screwed.

A bonus is fine but please not more motral wound spam in the game. It's so terrible as a mechanic.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Well Crons have no way for their troops to deal with armor anymore , so the change would help a lot.

Crons also don't have a lot of different gear , so their most basic gun needs to deal with a lot of stuff at least somewhat average wich it just doesnt.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/10 12:22:51


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I do agree that almost all units need a point drop but i tried to focus on the stuff i think is the most important.

Also the stuff with the MW. This is a problem with 8th game mechanics, necrons already had this in 7th but now there are no hull points and no critical hits so the easiest way (a bonus as you said @Ice_can) to give necrons this „ability“ back is via MW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biasn wrote:
[...]

Im also in the camp to raise the Tesla Annihilator to 2dmg


Would be a nice change. I still dont understand the use of all of necrons High Str (6-7) 0AP Tesla (on Scythes and on Vault)

It seems like Necrons lost ALL of their AT abilities. The ONLY real AT we have is HDestroyers and DDAs. I dont count Destroyers as they are good AT because of the stratagem, without it Necrons are an army with a lot of str 5-6 shooting with high AP which is again not thought through since everything with a dangerous name in this edition has an invuln.
The evidence for just plain stupidity by GW is the faction focus Necrons Mephrit Destroyers (with Mephrits additional -1AP destroyers melt through terminator armor —> 2+ Destroyer canon -3AP = 5+ sv, with Mephrit -4 Terminator 5+ invuln)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/10 12:52:29


 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Agreed....Doom Scythes should get strafing run.

Tesla Destructors should be 2dmg, str7, ap-1 now.

Maybe instead of mortal wounds, Gauss weaponry does double damage, double ap on 6s to wound vs vehicles?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/10 14:57:24


Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 iGuy91 wrote:
Agreed....Doom Scythes should get strafing run.

Tesla Destructors should be 2dmg, str7, ap-1 now.

Maybe instead of mortal wounds, Gauss weaponry does double damage, double ap on 6s to wound vs vehicles?


I mathhammered it (online site) and with double AP double dmg on 6s youre looking at 14 unsaved wounds vs T7 Sv3+

MW on 6+s is 4unsaved wounds plus 5MW

I like the first one more since its more damage but I dont see GW making something like this also the OP PLS NERF cries are going to be MASSIVE
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Agreed....Doom Scythes should get strafing run.

Tesla Destructors should be 2dmg, str7, ap-1 now.

Maybe instead of mortal wounds, Gauss weaponry does double damage, double ap on 6s to wound vs vehicles?


I mathhammered it (online site) and with double AP double dmg on 6s youre looking at 14 unsaved wounds vs T7 Sv3+

MW on 6+s is 4unsaved wounds plus 5MW

I like the first one more since its more damage but I dont see GW making something like this also the OP PLS NERF cries are going to be MASSIVE


How many shooters? What Range? How Many Points is that vs a Rhino Equivalent?

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 iGuy91 wrote:
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Agreed....Doom Scythes should get strafing run.

Tesla Destructors should be 2dmg, str7, ap-1 now.

Maybe instead of mortal wounds, Gauss weaponry does double damage, double ap on 6s to wound vs vehicles?


I mathhammered it (online site) and with double AP double dmg on 6s youre looking at 14 unsaved wounds vs T7 Sv3+

MW on 6+s is 4unsaved wounds plus 5MW

I like the first one more since its more damage but I dont see GW making something like this also the OP PLS NERF cries are going to be MASSIVE


How many shooters? What Range? How Many Points is that vs a Rhino Equivalent?



full warrior squad 240points 12“ rapid fire range
dont hnow how much a rhino costs but definitely less
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

It seems like Necrons lost ALL of their AT abilities. The ONLY real AT we have is HDestroyers and DDAs.


Hdestroyers are not a good choice because three are easily wiped out. Necrons havent lost ALL of their AT abilities, there is a lot to choose from, but they have poor rules and/or are to expensive. There is the night scythe, monolith, tomb sentinel, gauss pylon, sentry pylon, triarch stalker. All have S8+ weapons.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

It seems like Necrons lost ALL of their AT abilities. The ONLY real AT we have is HDestroyers and DDAs.


Hdestroyers are not a good choice because three are easily wiped out. Necrons havent lost ALL of their AT abilities, there is a lot to choose from, but they have poor rules and/or are to expensive. There is the night scythe, monolith, tomb sentinel, gauss pylon, sentry pylon, triarch stalker. All have S8+ weapons.


Thx for listing them up for me i truly did forget about them because theyre bad units to take. Now that i think about them and their rules im shaking my head.
What is the triarch stalker going to do with his 2 shoots hitting on 4s when he moved. Plus theres no way to deny that as they dont habe dynasty keyword. I still dont understand what the GAMEPLAY idea was behind non dynasty units? From a fluff perspective it’s reasonable but gameplay wise?
And I wasn’t referring to FW units as I think they actually did a good job in giving us some good AT (big fan of the Sentinel)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/10 20:09:23


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

It seems like Necrons lost ALL of their AT abilities. The ONLY real AT we have is HDestroyers and DDAs.


Hdestroyers are not a good choice because three are easily wiped out. Necrons havent lost ALL of their AT abilities, there is a lot to choose from, but they have poor rules and/or are to expensive. There is the night scythe, monolith, tomb sentinel, gauss pylon, sentry pylon, triarch stalker. All have S8+ weapons.


Thx for listing them up for me i truly did forget about them because theyre bad units to take. Now that i think about them and their rules im shaking my head.
What is the triarch stalker going to do with his 2 shoots hitting on 4s when he moved. Plus theres no way to deny that as they dont habe dynasty keyword. I still dont understand what the GAMEPLAY idea was behind non dynasty units? From a fluff perspective it’s reasonable but gameplay wise?
And I wasn’t referring to FW units as I think they actually did a good job in giving us some good AT (big fan of the Sentinel)


Well, triarch units have no dynasty. The stalker should have the ignore penalty rule for moving and firing heavy weapons, like destroyers. Not a big fan of the sentinel, 12" gun range is not long enough, enemy can simply charge it and shut down its shooting. And it should have a 5+ inv sv for 180 pts. The D6 randomness of necron guns is also pretty annoying.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I don't think there really needs to be a lot of price adjustments. Make Warriors and Flayed Ones 3+ and Immortals T5 again would be a big start.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

It seems like Necrons lost ALL of their AT abilities. The ONLY real AT we have is HDestroyers and DDAs.


Hdestroyers are not a good choice because three are easily wiped out. Necrons havent lost ALL of their AT abilities, there is a lot to choose from, but they have poor rules and/or are to expensive. There is the night scythe, monolith, tomb sentinel, gauss pylon, sentry pylon, triarch stalker. All have S8+ weapons.


Thx for listing them up for me i truly did forget about them because theyre bad units to take. Now that i think about them and their rules im shaking my head.
What is the triarch stalker going to do with his 2 shoots hitting on 4s when he moved. Plus theres no way to deny that as they dont habe dynasty keyword. I still dont understand what the GAMEPLAY idea was behind non dynasty units? From a fluff perspective it’s reasonable but gameplay wise?
And I wasn’t referring to FW units as I think they actually did a good job in giving us some good AT (big fan of the Sentinel)


Well, triarch units have no dynasty. The stalker should have the ignore penalty rule for moving and firing heavy weapons, like destroyers. Not a big fan of the sentinel, 12" gun range is not long enough, enemy can simply charge it and shut down its shooting. And it should have a 5+ inv sv for 180 pts. The D6 randomness of necron guns is also pretty annoying.


Youre right but i just love the looks of the sentinel, it just has that something special to me haha
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I'd like to see some variations in the C'tan powers, at the moment it's just variations of "units within x" take Mortals on a particular dice roll". Actual ranged attacks such as the 7th Ed powers would be nice.

I wouldn't say Crons are as garbage as some people make them out to be, they're a pretty hardy army to go against when RP is taken into account. Some units could use a reduction although I couldn't comment too specifically on what need what reduction, possibly Crypteks, the Characters would be my first guess.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

RP is easily countered by destroying the entire unit. It should be a 5+ or 4+ FNP.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 p5freak wrote:
RP is easily countered by destroying the entire unit. It should be a 5+ or 4+ FNP.


But-but!! Then they are stepping on the toes of muh death guard!!
/sarcasm

Its true though. I feel as though whoever wrote the dex played against a whole bunch of decurion necrons in 7th, and overcompensated.

I also think its still comical how expensive Flayed Ones are for how bad they are.

Real talk though, would giving Ghost Arks the Transport Keyword, and allowing anyone to hop into them make much of a difference in your opinion?

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Jackson, TN

Ghost Arks already have the Transport Keyword.

And, yes, other infantry units do need to be able to get in there.

With our 5" on foot speed units like Lychguard need to have something to get them down the field a little more reliable.

Another issue is that it needs a small boost to it's capacity, allowing a character to get in with a minimum sized Warrior Unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/14 13:22:40


 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 Draco765 wrote:
Ghost Arks already have the Transport Keyword.

And, yes, other infantry units do need to be able to get in there.

With our 5" on foot speed units like Lychguard need to have something to get them down the field a little more reliable.

Another issue is that it needs a small boost to it's capacity, allowing a character to get in with a minimum sized Warrior Unit.


Bump capacity to 12, let anyone with the infantry keyword catch a ride.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 iGuy91 wrote:
 Draco765 wrote:
Ghost Arks already have the Transport Keyword.

And, yes, other infantry units do need to be able to get in there.

With our 5" on foot speed units like Lychguard need to have something to get them down the field a little more reliable.

Another issue is that it needs a small boost to it's capacity, allowing a character to get in with a minimum sized Warrior Unit.


Bump capacity to 12, let anyone with the infantry keyword catch a ride.


Id also like to transport a cryptek and/or a overlord

id even bump the capacity to 22
why can you just take a min squad warriors in the ark its stupid
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

What I said includes Crypteks and Overlords. That, or make it able to hold 22 models, but all non-warrior models count for 2?
That'd let it hold a squad of immortals and a character, or 20 warriors and a character, or that 10 man lychguard squad and Anrakyr to buff them...

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




There's no room on that model come on.

Make it so Warriors can shoot out the top like Dark Eldar all can, and if you feel like it allow other units to use it as a transport. 8 Immortals with a Lord and Overlord? Cool beans. Want to just keep it cheaper and use 10 Warriors? Go for it.
That alone would fix most of the Ark's problems.

Also, like I said, not too many point adjustments need to be done for most of the infantry. I'd want Flayed Ones and Warriors to get a 3+ save back, and Immortals being T5 would make them tougher.

One of the prime issues with the army though is that we pay for a RP that will likely never come into play. I'd rather it work at the end of each phase. It'll encourage more extermination of a squad but it'll make them better vs armies that use multiple phases.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[...]

Also, like I said, not too many point adjustments need to be done for most of the infantry. I'd want Flayed Ones and Warriors to get a 3+ save back, and Immortals being T5 would make them tougher.

One of the prime issues with the army though is that we pay for a RP that will likely never come into play. I'd rather it work at the end of each phase. It'll encourage more extermination of a squad but it'll make them better vs armies that use multiple phases.


Id love to have T5 on immortals back too, even more than 3+ sv on warriors/flayed ones

Isnt RP one if not THE only one „army rule“ that is controlled by the opponent?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[...]

Also, like I said, not too many point adjustments need to be done for most of the infantry. I'd want Flayed Ones and Warriors to get a 3+ save back, and Immortals being T5 would make them tougher.

One of the prime issues with the army though is that we pay for a RP that will likely never come into play. I'd rather it work at the end of each phase. It'll encourage more extermination of a squad but it'll make them better vs armies that use multiple phases.


Id love to have T5 on immortals back too, even more than 3+ sv on warriors/flayed ones

Isnt RP one if not THE only one „army rule“ that is controlled by the opponent?

Essentially it is, yes. You can argue on Cult infiltration shenanigans and that if you don't play an Imperium army then CSM won't get their little bonus thing.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Australia

Hmm, would people be against - not - reducing the points of the monolith, but instead see a whole slew of new tactical stratagems for it?

Here's my wishlist:
- All Gauss weaponry increase AP and Damage by 1 when targeting vehicles
- Reanimation Protocols can now be done after a unit is wiped out. Units resurrected this way are instead placed in the "Tomb World" for future deployment.
- Tesla Weaponry now instead generates 1 extra hit to all other units within 6" of the target
-- Heavy Tesla now procs on a 5+
- Deathmark rifles now have AP -1
- Flayed ones not reduced in points, but can now deepstrike from the "Tomb World", basically making them a constant threat.
- Szeras and his upgrades can now stack on the same unit

My thoughts are to make Night Scythes, Monoliths and Telsa more useful while also diversifying the decision of Gauss vs Tesla immortals.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 Eonfuzz wrote:
Hmm, would people be against - not - reducing the points of the monolith, but instead see a whole slew of new tactical stratagems for it?

Here's my wishlist:
- All Gauss weaponry increase AP and Damage by 1 when targeting vehicles
- Reanimation Protocols can now be done after a unit is wiped out. Units resurrected this way are instead placed in the "Tomb World" for future deployment.
- Tesla Weaponry now instead generates 1 extra hit to all other units within 6" of the target
-- Heavy Tesla now procs on a 5+
- Deathmark rifles now have AP -1
- Flayed ones not reduced in points, but can now deepstrike from the "Tomb World", basically making them a constant threat.
- Szeras and his upgrades can now stack on the same unit

My thoughts are to make Night Scythes, Monoliths and Telsa more useful while also diversifying the decision of Gauss vs Tesla immortals.


Thats some cool ideas!
I would like to see the DDA ignore 1 or 2 points of Invuln...it's one of the strongest weapons in the game god damnit
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One





I think that str 7 tesla should do 2mg and for the ghost ark just introduce a rule calls "compressed space" or something.
Necrons are meant to be masters of technology so surely they can squeeze 20 guys in.
They could add a special rule where if it blows up 10 are automatically considered slain and can't be brought back
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

A model is just a model, its not an exact representation of the vehicle. Rhinos and land raiders would be much bigger if they had the same scale as a space marine. GW could say that a ghost ark can carry 20 models.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
A model is just a model, its not an exact representation of the vehicle. Rhinos and land raiders would be much bigger if they had the same scale as a space marine. GW could say that a ghost ark can carry 20 models.

You can literally SEE the models being transported in this case.

Being opentopped is more important anyway.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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