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Hello Dakka, I've come to an impasse with someone about the Cyclops and if it gets to reroll one of its dice due to the catachan doctrine.

The ruling in the catachan doctrine states that it needs to be a a vehical that Fired a Ranged weapon with a random number of shots

The rule for the cyclops says that it can chose to "Detonate" at the start of the shooting phase. But sence the cyclops isn't "Firing" its weapon would it gain the catachan doctrine?

 kinratha wrote:
Hello Dakka, I've come to an impasse with someone about the Cyclops and if it gets to reroll one of its dice due to the catachan doctrine.

The ruling in the catachan doctrine states that it needs to be a a vehical that Fired a Ranged weapon with a random number of shots

The rule for the cyclops says that it can chose to "Detonate" at the start of the shooting phase. But sence the cyclops isn't "Firing" its weapon would it gain the catachan doctrine?

Can you post the complete text?

But, if I had to guess...

If it's a weapon listed, with a range and a number of shots and S and AP and Damage, then you can reroll.

If it's an ability on the datasheet and NOT a listed weapon, you cannot.

The Ability is on the Data sheet of the cyclops.

"Cyclops demolition charge"
At the start of any of the models shooting phase, so long as it has not advanced it may choose to detonate its cyclops demolition charge. When it does so every unit (friendly and enemy) within D6" is automatically hit by this weapon using the profile stated above. Roll separately for each unit.


For the Catachan doctrine
Each time a vehical with a this doctrine fires a ranged weapon that makes a random number of attacks ( D3 D6) it may reroll one of the dice used to determine the number of attacks.


The cyclops isn't Firing a ranged weapon, its choosing to detonate itself. I could be blind, but I dont see how the cyclops gains the Catachan doctrine.

It says using the weapon profile above, so I think it DOES get the Catachan doctrine.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It says using the weapon profile above, so I think it DOES get the Catachan doctrine.

That's why I've asked the community. The Cyclops dosent Fire its weapon, it chooses to detonate. So my question is "detonating" the same as "firing" I'm sure there's a reason for the different wording.

Hey I agree with JNAProductions reasoning, since it uses the profile listed under weapons then it counts have firing weapons. I think a sort of parallel to this situation is a wave serpent discharging its serpent shield, which is not useing a profile and therefor not really “shooting”

Straight_Memer wrote:
Hey I agree with JNAProductions reasoning, since it uses the profile listed under weapons then it counts have firing weapons. I think a sort of parallel to this situation is a wave serpent discharging its serpent shield, which is not useing a profile and therefor not really “shooting”

Yes it uses the profile, but the rule states that it can choose to detonate. If it were a ranged attack wouldnt you have to declare your target then?.

It's a bit of a grey area on this one, it's not a "ranged attack", but it is an offensive action occurring during your shooting phase. In the spirit of good play I'd let my opponent reroll it if he wanted.

 Valkyrie wrote:
It's a bit of a grey area on this one, it's not a "ranged attack", but it is an offensive action occurring during your shooting phase. In the spirit of good play I'd let my opponent reroll it if he wanted.

Which I'd be ok with in a pickup game, but this is more about competitive play.

In competitive play its the TOs decision. Ask him before the tournament begins if he allows re-rolls, or not.

I would allow it, its a ranged weapon and it happens in the shooting phase, which is good enough for me.

Whats missing from the above is the weapon profile of the attack

It says Heavy 2d6 that makes it a ranged profile
Had it said melee 2d6 it would be a melee attack
Had it said *2d6 with an explanation it would be something else

Essentially it makes many seperate shooting attacks then gets removed. It doesnt matter that the mechanism by which it makes shooting attacks is a special rule the catachan doctrine only cares that they are shooting attacks.

Also I have played them at tournaments multiple times and the catachan doctine is what makes them worthwhile.

U02dah4 wrote:
Whats missing from the above is the weapon profile of the attack

It says Heavy 2d6 that makes it a ranged profile
Had it said melee 2d6 it would be a melee attack
Had it said *2d6 with an explanation it would be something else

Essentially it makes many seperate shooting attacks then gets removed. It doesnt matter that the mechanism by which it makes shooting attacks is a special rule the catachan doctrine only cares that they are shooting attacks.

Also I have played them at tournaments multiple times and the catachan doctine is what makes them worthwhile.

That is a very good explanation and one to remember.

U02dah4 wrote:
Whats missing from the above is the weapon profile of the attack

It says Heavy 2d6 that makes it a ranged profile
Had it said melee 2d6 it would be a melee attack
Had it said *2d6 with an explanation it would be something else

Essentially it makes many seperate shooting attacks then gets removed. It doesnt matter that the mechanism by which it makes shooting attacks is a special rule the catachan doctrine only cares that they are shooting attacks.

Also I have played them at tournaments multiple times and the catachan doctine is what makes them worthwhile.

That's a good explanation of it. I cant really find a problem with it.