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Question in the title - I can't find anything about this in my thousand boyz codex.

But if I have 2 units of rubrics and a unit of pink horrors I decide to summon, can I have a battalion?

I'm a bit concerned because, I suppose, I could theoretically change my mind and summon something like screamers or flamers instead of horrors, and therefore wouldn't have 3x troops choices anymore.

AFAIK, no - you do not add summoned units to your list.

You must set aside points to use for summoning, but you needn't specify what you are going to spend them on.

No. Reinforcement points can't be "promised" to a certain role prior to the battle in order to fill up Force Org slots. Before the battle, your (presumably Battle-Forged) force must be organized into detachments. Any points not used can be considered Reinforcement Points. When you summon a unit, it may have a battlefield role, but it is not a part of any detachment (since nothing in the rules says that it joins any detachment).

Yeah, I suspect you're right. It's a little annoying, because I'd like to be able to use those points in my FOC. Guess that's the cost of summoning.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Yeah, I suspect you're right. It's a little annoying, because I'd like to be able to use those points in my FOC. Guess that's the cost of summoning.

Summoning is a very poor mechanic this edition. The fact you have to put aside points, and then you still have to roll and might not be able to summon makes it pretty terrible.

You'd be better off taking a Daemons detachment and using their stratagem to teleport them into battle instead.

Eh, I can do the same with a thousand sons stratagem, and I kind of do like dropping in with 20 pinkies, especially if I can get flickering flames off.

I kind of like summoning flamers or screamers, though. Easy to summon, cheap, fast little objective scorers.

It's kind of fluffy too.

Without getting too deep into it; there are reasons to consider summoning. Getting around force org cough: limitations :cough is one such use. I had a tourney list, legal by ITC standards, but not by the standards of a tourney that a friend was going to (you couldn't have multiple copies of a detachment type, and I had two Supreme Command detachments). I changed one to a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment, then used summoning to bring in my three Poxbringers. You could also do something similar to bring in "the right tool for the job", so to speak, by having unaligned CSM's bring in either Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle psykers with specific powers as required.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Eh, I can do the same with a thousand sons stratagem, and I kind of do like dropping in with 20 pinkies, especially if I can get flickering flames off.

I kind of like summoning flamers or screamers, though. Easy to summon, cheap, fast little objective scorers.

It's kind of fluffy too.

Doesn't that Thousand Sons stratagem only affect THOUSAND SONS units? Horrors do not have that keyword. Plus, since Horrors lack the THOUSAND SONS Faction Keyword, your TZEENTCH detachment would not qualify to access Thousand Sons stratagems anyway.

Does this mean that summonable units are also immune to the dreaded "rule of 3"?

In non matched play you don’t need to set aside anything.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Does this mean that summonable units are also immune to the dreaded "rule of 3"?

Absolutely

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Eh, I can do the same with a thousand sons stratagem, and I kind of do like dropping in with 20 pinkies, especially if I can get flickering flames off.

I kind of like summoning flamers or screamers, though. Easy to summon, cheap, fast little objective scorers.

It's kind of fluffy too.

Doesn't that Thousand Sons stratagem only affect THOUSAND SONS units? Horrors do not have that keyword. Plus, since Horrors lack the THOUSAND SONS Faction Keyword, your TZEENTCH detachment would not qualify to access Thousand Sons stratagems anyway.

As Cheeksta says, if you put the Horrors in your main detachment, you'll lose all the Thousand Sons rules, because Horrors do not have the THOUSAND SONS keyword. You'll need a separate detachment.

Actually how does summoning work when you play with points.
Do you still roll 3d6 and then compare that to the powerlevel? After you set aside the pts of course.
I am asking because i'd like to summon some bloodletters with my R&H army.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Actually how does summoning work when you play with points.
Do you still roll 3d6 and then compare that to the powerlevel? After you set aside the pts of course.
I am asking because i'd like to summon some bloodletters with my R&H army.

Yes, you still roll for summoning and then pick a unit with a PL up to that result. The actual points cost of the unit still comes out of your Reserve Points, though.

 Cheexsta wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Actually how does summoning work when you play with points.
Do you still roll 3d6 and then compare that to the powerlevel? After you set aside the pts of course.
I am asking because i'd like to summon some bloodletters with my R&H army.

Yes, you still roll for summoning and then pick a unit with a PL up to that result. The actual points cost of the unit still comes out of your Reserve Points, though.

So in other words i require to know 2 diffrent matched play counters and it seems counter intuitive since i need to put aside points for summoning ?

I mean why make it sensible and easy to understand and NOT random when you can do it that way......
Miss the old days where you could summon via Icons and payed for lower or upper daemons and you knew what you would get.

GW gives you two options for Daemon Summoning:
1) Take a Daemon Detachment and use Stratagem to put the units in the Warp (aka deep strike them).
2) Use the summoning rules, giving you flexibility over what you summon. Have 200 points of summoning available? You can summon any daemon unit you choose based on your summoning rule. You don't need to decide until you actually start summoning.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Does this mean that summonable units are also immune to the dreaded "rule of 3"?

Absolutely

Yes. It's even explicitly noted on the chart that it doesn't apply to units that cost reinforcement points.

MadSpy wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Eh, I can do the same with a thousand sons stratagem, and I kind of do like dropping in with 20 pinkies, especially if I can get flickering flames off.

I kind of like summoning flamers or screamers, though. Easy to summon, cheap, fast little objective scorers.

It's kind of fluffy too.

Doesn't that Thousand Sons stratagem only affect THOUSAND SONS units? Horrors do not have that keyword. Plus, since Horrors lack the THOUSAND SONS Faction Keyword, your TZEENTCH detachment would not qualify to access Thousand Sons stratagems anyway.

As Cheeksta says, if you put the Horrors in your main detachment, you'll lose all the Thousand Sons rules, because Horrors do not have the THOUSAND SONS keyword. You'll need a separate detachment.

I don't have my codex in front of me, but I'm about 90% certain horrors have the thousand sons keyword, if taken as a troops choice out of the thousand boyz codex. Not if you take a demons detachment, but I don't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
GW gives you two options for Daemon Summoning:
You can summon any daemon unit you choose based on your summoning rule. .

IIRC, aren't you limited to summoning demons with your same demonic alignment - i.e. Thousand boyz can only summon tzeench demons, Death guard can only summon nurgle demons, etc?

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I don't have my codex in front of me, but I'm about 90% certain horrors have the thousand sons keyword, if taken as a troops choice out of the thousand boyz codex.

You'd be wrong. Horrors do not have the THOUSAND SONS keyword even in Codex Thousand Sons.

I will check, otherwise my princes/exalted sorcerers don't give them rerolls of 1s.

You will be disappointed

 Yarium wrote:
You will be disappointed

My main army is orks, so I'm used to disappointment!

What I am unused to is this much nuance when building an army. I guess I kind of thought if it was in your codex you........just use it, but it seems that's not the case.

You can use them. You do so by summoning them and not needing to purchase Codex Daemons to do so.

And I believe Princes will still be able to buff them as they also buff Daemons with the same alignment (Tzeentch in this case).
At least Princes from the CSM codex, which can also be Tsons.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
GW gives you two options for Daemon Summoning:
You can summon any daemon unit you choose based on your summoning rule. .

IIRC, aren't you limited to summoning demons with your same demonic alignment - i.e. Thousand boyz can only summon tzeench demons, Death guard can only summon nurgle demons, etc?

This is indeed correct, so if you're summoning units from your Thousand Sons, you'll only be summoning Tzeentch daemons. That being said, if you had an unmarked chaos character for summoning, he could summon whichever daemons he wanted.

About the only advantage to summoning I can see is tailoring your daemon selection to your opponent - given a full unit of plaguebearers costs the same as daemonettes, which costs the same as bloodletters (and horrors cost less), you can choose what feels right for the battle, as opposed to having a fixed selection in your army that might be sub-optimal.

However I think the RULES for summoning more than remove this advantage by requiring your character to remain stationary in the movement phase. This requires you to get the character into position for the summoning the turn before, really limiting how well you can use summoned daemons as a reactionary force. I dunno, maybe I was doing it wrong, but that's how I played Death Guard back in 4th edition, my troops would move around objectives, and I summoned in units of plaguebearers to support areas where I was coming under fire and/or needed an assault unit to countercharge.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
You will be disappointed

My main army is orks, so I'm used to disappointment!

What I am unused to is this much nuance when building an army. I guess I kind of thought if it was in your codex you........just use it, but it seems that's not the case.

You need to get out of the idea that "Codex = Army". This seems to be the way that 8th edition isgoing: it's all about Faction Keywords, but the actual publication the unit is found in has absolutely no bearing over Detachments.

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
You will be disappointed

My main army is orks, so I'm used to disappointment!

What I am unused to is this much nuance when building an army. I guess I kind of thought if it was in your codex you........just use it, but it seems that's not the case.

You need to get out of the idea that "Codex = Army". This seems to be the way that 8th edition isgoing: it's all about Faction Keywords, but the actual publication the unit is found in has absolutely no bearing over Detachments.

This is only true for IMPERIUM, CHAOS, AELDRARI SPESS ELVES, and TYRANIDS. For ORKS, T'AU EMPIRE, and NECRONS you can slap together whatever you want with narry a care in the world as to whether the detachments will work out keyword wise, because they will.

But otherwise, you're right. Gone are the days of a single FoC chart using units from but a single codex. 8th edition took the allies system of previous editions and said "lol what limits". Can't convince you to buy more £110 models if you "can't" use them in "proper" games now!

 BaconCatBug wrote:
This is only true for IMPERIUM, CHAOS, AELDRARI SPESS ELVES, and TYRANIDS. For ORKS, T'AU EMPIRE, and NECRONS you can slap together whatever you want with narry a care in the world as to whether the detachments will work out keyword wise, because they will.

So far, yeah. I fully expect publications to come out later in the 8th edition cycle to contain datasheets for other (or perhaps multiple) factions. Campaign books, Chapter Approved, stuff like that.

But the point was more that: just because it's in your codex, doesn't mean it's got all the same Faction Keywords.