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Wow, the backlash against this whole pricing hike has been intense. Nearly every single comment on any of the Forgeworld social media stories is related to the price hike, especially for the folks down under. They've really been hit hard.

I can understand the anger, after I saw the price rises for the US, I sold all my HH stuff and will pretty much stick with GW proper from now on. The price just isn't worth it to me, especially since FW products are made from resin (I hate resin so much).

So far, GW proper nor FW have said a single word about this. I really hope they're not banking on staying silent until it goes away. The internet is not a group of people one should mess with in that way, they'll get rowdy, fast. Just look at what has been happening to that skeptic youtuber who got caught false reporting other youtubers' content.

So the question is, what can FW even do? I mean, given all the trade wars going on, this could be the result of complex trade issues that cause such high price hikes for all we know. GW has never been forward with sharing their financial information.

Plastic prices have been know to be volatile in the past due to problems with oil. I’ve been told, as I wasn’t around then, that he prices on plastic kits were hit by the oil crises in the 70s. But this specific example doesn’t apply to resin. You’d think that as Forgeworld was getting more popular, they’d be benefiting from economy of scale, they also don’t sell through stores so aren’t involved with the costs of physical stores. Personally, I’ve always found GW’s pricing strategy to be rather cynical.

Only time will tell if this is a genuine problem for FW, or a vocal minority on the Internet trying to cause trouble. Yes, some things now cost more but others cost less (and the people who are pointing that out are getting abuse), and Warhammer Citadel sold out of several FW product lines under the new pricing.

beast_gts wrote:
Only time will tell if this is a genuine problem for FW, or a vocal minority on the Internet trying to cause trouble. Yes, some things now cost more but others cost less (and the people who are pointing that out are getting abuse), and Warhammer Citadel sold out of several FW product lines under the new pricing.

I agree. As we all know the internet is a terrible place full of terrible people.

But, that said, I think there is a sub line here. It's the Aussie prices specifically that seem to have inflated for no apparent reason. It now costs 700 AUD more to buy a warlord titan than it did two weeks ago.

beast_gts wrote:
Only time will tell if this is a genuine problem for FW, or a vocal minority on the Internet trying to cause trouble. Yes, some things now cost more but others cost less (and the people who are pointing that out are getting abuse), and Warhammer Citadel sold out of several FW product lines under the new pricing.

What costs less? Every example I've seen posted from the US and especially Oz/NZ has been a price increase, and rarely less than 20%.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Plastic prices have been know to be volatile in the past due to problems with oil. I’ve been told, as I wasn’t around then, that he prices on plastic kits were hit by the oil crises in the 70s. But this specific example doesn’t apply to resin. You’d think that as Forgeworld was getting more popular, they’d be benefiting from economy of scale, they also don’t sell through stores so aren’t involved with the costs of physical stores. Personally, I’ve always found GW’s pricing strategy to be rather cynical.

Resin production doesn't really benefit from economies of scale, the costs of production are pretty much linear with the volume. Make more models and you need to replace more molds more frequently and spend more money on labor for more hours. The intrinsic cost is pretty small already, and I very much doubt if GW aren't already paying about as low a price as possible for resin. Plus, FW being GW with a different hat means that all the behind the scenes stuff like utilities and rent is already dialed down as low as possible.

To the broader point, GW don't need to do anything. I very much doubt the response was a surprise to anyone with any interest in the day to day running of their financials, and it will go away in time just like everything else they've done. As long as the shinies are bright enough, enough people forgive pretty much everything else.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Only time will tell if this is a genuine problem for FW, or a vocal minority on the Internet trying to cause trouble. Yes, some things now cost more but others cost less (and the people who are pointing that out are getting abuse), and Warhammer Citadel sold out of several FW product lines under the new pricing.

What costs less? Every example I've seen posted from the US and especially Oz/NZ has been a price increase, and rarely less than 20%.

There are a few things that haven't gone up that much, and they've temporarily lowered the threshold for free shipping, so in some cases the net cost of the order has dropped. This is temporary though, I don't think once normal shipping is reinstated I've seen anything offered as an example that would remain cheaper.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Plastic prices have been know to be volatile in the past due to problems with oil. I’ve been told, as I wasn’t around then, that he prices on plastic kits were hit by the oil crises in the 70s. But this specific example doesn’t apply to resin. You’d think that as Forgeworld was getting more popular, they’d be benefiting from economy of scale, they also don’t sell through stores so aren’t involved with the costs of physical stores. Personally, I’ve always found GW’s pricing strategy to be rather cynical.

Resin production doesn't really benefit from economies of scale, the costs of production are pretty much linear with the volume. Make more models and you need to replace more molds more frequently and spend more money on labor for more hours. The intrinsic cost is pretty small already, and I very much doubt if GW aren't already paying about as low a price as possible for resin. Plus, FW being GW with a different hat means that all the behind the scenes stuff like utilities and rent is already dialed down as low as possible.

To the broader point, GW don't need to do anything. I very much doubt the response was a surprise to anyone with any interest in the day to day running of their financials, and it will go away in time just like everything else they've done. As long as the shinies are bright enough, enough people forgive pretty much everything else.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Only time will tell if this is a genuine problem for FW, or a vocal minority on the Internet trying to cause trouble. Yes, some things now cost more but others cost less (and the people who are pointing that out are getting abuse), and Warhammer Citadel sold out of several FW product lines under the new pricing.

What costs less? Every example I've seen posted from the US and especially Oz/NZ has been a price increase, and rarely less than 20%.

There are a few things that haven't gone up that much, and they've temporarily lowered the threshold for free shipping, so in some cases the net cost of the order has dropped. This is temporary though, I don't think once normal shipping is reinstated I've seen anything offered as an example that would remain cheaper.

Except he specifically said some things are cheaper. I'd like to see a list. Or were they talking about perhaps marked down discontinued items? Last Chances? Not a single price has gone down and all have gone up. SO saying some have gone down seems outright wrong and claiming that people saying so are getting attacked for saying so. Except maybe those saying it's gotten cheaper are being attacked because what they say isn't true?

Clearance Prices are not something you calculate when figuring out if a store is raising prices or not.

From the FW N&R Thread:

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Just a quick comparison I did:

Last month I bought two DKoK Centaurs from Forgeworld.
Cost+Shipping+Taxes came to $146.90

That same order in my card today comes to:
Cost+Shipping+Sales Tax = $145.26

Granted this is with the free shipping deal, but the difference is much less than I thought it would be.

So, yes - it's cheaper with the free shipping.

.

 Togusa wrote:
So far, GW proper nor FW have said a single word about this. I really hope they're not banking on staying silent until it goes away. The internet is not a group of people one should mess with in that way, they'll get rowdy, fast.

Or it'll just get quietly forgotten in a short while like all those times GW blatantly lied to their customers and nobody cared, or released shoddy products and nobody cared, or made decisions which negatively impacted the customer and nobody cared.

In a couple of weeks it will be old news and a blanket of apathy will have settled over it like with everything else.

 Togusa wrote:
Wow, the backlash against this whole pricing hike has been intense. Nearly every single comment on any of the Forgeworld social media stories is related to the price hike, especially for the folks down under. They've really been hit hard.

I can understand the anger, after I saw the price rises for the US, I sold all my HH stuff and will pretty much stick with GW proper from now on. The price just isn't worth it to me, especially since FW products are made from resin (I hate resin so much).

So far, GW proper nor FW have said a single word about this. I really hope they're not banking on staying silent until it goes away. The internet is not a group of people one should mess with in that way, they'll get rowdy, fast. Just look at what has been happening to that skeptic youtuber who got caught false reporting other youtubers' content.

So the question is, what can FW even do? I mean, given all the trade wars going on, this could be the result of complex trade issues that cause such high price hikes for all we know. GW has never been forward with sharing their financial information.

How much did it affect GW when GW did? None. GW US is still selling fine. In the end result is going to be similar.

tneva82 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wow, the backlash against this whole pricing hike has been intense. Nearly every single comment on any of the Forgeworld social media stories is related to the price hike, especially for the folks down under. They've really been hit hard.

I can understand the anger, after I saw the price rises for the US, I sold all my HH stuff and will pretty much stick with GW proper from now on. The price just isn't worth it to me, especially since FW products are made from resin (I hate resin so much).

So far, GW proper nor FW have said a single word about this. I really hope they're not banking on staying silent until it goes away. The internet is not a group of people one should mess with in that way, they'll get rowdy, fast. Just look at what has been happening to that skeptic youtuber who got caught false reporting other youtubers' content.

So the question is, what can FW even do? I mean, given all the trade wars going on, this could be the result of complex trade issues that cause such high price hikes for all we know. GW has never been forward with sharing their financial information.

How much did it affect GW when GW did? None. GW US is still selling fine. In the end result is going to be similar.

The difference though is that GW's items are still within what would be considered reasonable compared to the rest of the market. I will concede the new Primaris stuff is starting to creep into the the over costed range. Forgeworld on the other hand, was already considered to be charging a premium before the price hike. Now it's just ludicrous.

The value for cost of Forgeworld minis just isn't there. Ex the new FW Sisters of Silence character is $56, compared to a squad of 5 SoS for $40. Looking at both and I just can't see where my money is going with the FW one when $40 can get me 5 similar minis and extra bits and $56 gets me a more detailed similar single mini made of a inferior material.

 Guardsmanwaffle wrote:

The difference though is that GW's items are still within what would be considered reasonable compared to the rest of the market. I will concede the new Primaris stuff is starting to creep into the the over costed range. Forgeworld on the other hand, was already considered to be charging a premium before the price hike. Now it's just ludicrous.

The value for cost of Forgeworld minis just isn't there. Ex the new FW Sisters of Silence character is $56, compared to a squad of 5 SoS for $40. Looking at both and I just can't see where my money is going with the FW one when $40 can get me 5 similar minis and extra bits and $56 gets me a more detailed similar single mini made of a inferior material.

To add on to this point, FW no longer offers something that GW mainline already didn't offer. Previously they made models with more detail than a typical GW plastic model. However now, the plastics are so detailed and dynamic in posing that it's unclear what the premium pricing is bringing.

As I understand it, for the Antipodeans at least, it offered stuff that was actually cheaper than mainstream GW products.

Also, however detailed the plastics are now, they can never quite offer the crispness of detail that well cast resin can.

Vote with your wallet.

If FW has made things too expensive, stop buying that.

The ONLY thing GW will respond to is a lack of sales. If they up the prices and people keep buying, that only enforces the idea they made the right move.

beast_gts wrote:
From the FW N&R Thread:

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Just a quick comparison I did:

Last month I bought two DKoK Centaurs from Forgeworld.
Cost+Shipping+Taxes came to $146.90

That same order in my card today comes to:
Cost+Shipping+Sales Tax = $145.26

Granted this is with the free shipping deal, but the difference is much less than I thought it would be.

So, yes - it's cheaper with the free shipping.

So once the lowered free shipping threshold is over it’ll then be about 20% more expensive?

I am somewhat surprised that anyone has ordered from Forgeworld a second time. I spent almost a decade avoiding all resin products because of what I received from them. (Well, FW and Spartan Games.)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I am somewhat surprised that anyone has ordered from Forgeworld a second time. I spent almost a decade avoiding all resin products because of what I received from them. (Well, FW and Spartan Games.)

Never had much of an issue with FW beyond excessive flashing on my MKIII Marines.

However, these price increases... eat a dick, FW

<—— a 30k player that doubled down on the HH.

One would wonder what the future for HH gaming is now. With Bligh's passing, sticking with the 7E rules looking like a bad call, stuff going out of stock, the novel series closer to a conclusion, and now the price increases...

beast_gts wrote:
... or a vocal minority on the Internet trying to cause trouble.

Curious to know how the fans are causing this issue, when it's FW who raised their prices overnight.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I am somewhat surprised that anyone has ordered from Forgeworld a second time. I spent almost a decade avoiding all resin products because of what I received from them. (Well, FW and Spartan Games.)

FW has markedly varying qualities of resin between different products.

I have a couple of older FW pieces bought second hand (a Dreadnought torso and a SH Grav tank), and the quality is through the roof (in a good way). Nice to work with, awesome detail and very durable.

A GK Doomglaive dread which I bought direct about a year ago is absolute garbage, on par with regular GWs finecast junk, probably the same material. I have also bought a brand new HH Dreadnought purchased not long ago (before hikes luckily) which is excellent quality.

Spartacus wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I am somewhat surprised that anyone has ordered from Forgeworld a second time. I spent almost a decade avoiding all resin products because of what I received from them. (Well, FW and Spartan Games.)

FW has markedly varying qualities of resin between different products.

I have a couple of older FW pieces bought second hand (a Dreadnought torso and a SH Grav tank), and the quality is through the roof (in a good way). Nice to work with, awesome detail and very durable.

A GK Doomglaive dread which I bought direct about a year ago is absolute garbage, on par with regular GWs finecast junk, probably the same material. I have also bought a brand new HH Dreadnought purchased not long ago (before hikes luckily) which is excellent quality.

I have never ordered a large FW kit that didn't have significant issues with it. The infantry I've ordered was always good though. But the quality control of the company just makes it an absolute farce for the prices that they charge.

FW quality is often far better when it's made by people who aren't Forge World.

 Stormonu wrote:
Vote with your wallet.

If FW has made things too expensive, stop buying that.

The ONLY thing GW will respond to is a lack of sales. If they up the prices and people keep buying, that only enforces the idea they made the right move.

This. If you don't like their rules, models, drip-feeding ala Necromunda, or prices stop buying their stuff. Profit is all they care about.

 totalfailure wrote:
One would wonder what the future for HH gaming is now. With Bligh's passing, sticking with the 7E rules looking like the best call ever made by anyone anywhere, stuff going out of stock, the novel series closer to a conclusion, and now the price increases...

FTFY.

The slowdown in releases and huge swath of LCTB undermining confidence are the majority of what's behind issues with actual Horus Heresy gaming. I'm sure sticking with 7th has had a big impact on people playing 40K against 40K armies, but frankly out of all the not-40K and 30K players I've met over the years only a handful have been both, most of the folk getting all rabble-rabble about HH staying 7th play actual HH games once in a blue moon if ever.

EDIT:

And since it apparently needs to be reiterated every time something like this happens: "Just stop buying their stuff" is a meaningless gesture if your goal is to affect change, because unless you make some noise and tell them they won't know why you stopped. If it reaches a point where you can no longer justify the expense then obviously that's a reason to stop, but on its own stopping will not have any impact, and there's a pretty cavernous gap between "I am unhappy with this price/business practice/whatever" and "this price/business practice/whatever is so bad I feel obligated to withdraw my custom" within which the vast majority of folk annoyed by these changes will exist.

 totalfailure wrote:
One would wonder what the future for HH gaming is now. With Bligh's passing, sticking with the 7E rules looking like a bad call, stuff going out of stock, the novel series closer to a conclusion, and now the price increases...

This was my first real thought, and I'm not even an HH player. Of course alternate parties and recasters can cover a lot of it, but anyone who plays HH thoroughly via Forgeworld is...borderline sadist. It saddens me because in a perfect world Forgeworld would produce cool miniatures, have better quality control and sell them for reasonable prices. One of those three is a reality at the moment.

My real preference of course is that Forgeworld would more or less cease to exist and they'd shift the artists and aesthetics into plastic kits. I have zero desire to work with resin after a couple of dreadnoughts in the material, etc. Forgeworld originally did fringe models and things they didn't expect to sell a ton of...but it's easily arguable that a proper Contemptor kit, or Leviathan kit, etc. (not the garbage plastic Contemptor we got with Calth) would be huge sellers. They're well established in the community now, same with the majority of Custodes stuff. All of that would sell well enough in plastic to justify it.

 Stormonu wrote:
Vote with your wallet.

If FW has made things too expensive, stop buying that.

The ONLY thing GW will respond to is a lack of sales. If they up the prices and people keep buying, that only enforces the idea they made the right move.

Everything you said makes sense to any other manufacturer, but you know full well that GW's response will just be to drop another beloved ForgeWorld line because it isn't selling, or whatever dreadful reasoning they applied to the murder of the Elysians

Playing Devil's advocate here I don't really understand why the internet has gone into meltdown over this.

To put it into perspective I have some numbers to show.

Average UK income 2017 in pound sterling - £27,300
Average US income 2017 in pound sterling - £43,797
Average Australian income 2017 in pound sterling - £46,937

Average UK monthly rent 2017 in pound sterling - £937
Average US monthly rent 2017 in pound sterling - £954
Average Australia monthly rent 2017 in pound sterling - £1,614

So as you can see people in US and OZ earn considerably more on average than UK consumers and even taking into account most people's largest monthly expense (rent) they still come out on top.

Factor in the fact that UK consumers pay approx 40% tax (20% Basic rate + 20% VAT) and the gap in earnings widens even further.

Then take into account that UK is going through one of the most disastrous business and financial crises in decades (Brexit) I don't think GW's decision is an unfair one.

FW Leviathan Dread (UK) in pound sterling - £47
FW Leviathan Dread (US) in pound sterling - £56.50
FW Leviathan Dread (Oz) in pound sterling - £62.62

So yes US and Australians are paying more - but you can't honestly tell me compared to UK customers you are being ripped of.

As a UK consumer if I buy goods from Australia or US I pay waaaaaay more than the dollar price.

If I buy a T-Shirt for example from America it costs triple what it costs for an American consumer to purchase it.

The same goes for electronic goods etc.

So yes FW have put their prices up, but they have reduced the shipping costs and I don't really see people suddenly being "ripped off".

It's just that US, Australian and other international consumers have been able to take advantage of the weak pound and it's been losing FW money.

Oh Jesus... the income argument again...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh Jesus... the income argument again...

That's kinda how I feel every time I see people overseas complaining they pay too much.

Another example;

Playstation 4 slim 1TB - US price - £217 Oz price - £261 UK price £356

So UK customers are paying way over the odds but there doesn't seem to be the same backlash against Sony?