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Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




So I recorded the top 11 lists before my BCP disappeared (meant top 10 but I snagged an extra one by mistake, so it's added to the pile!). There may be some mistakes/missing bits due to the pictures of the player's list uploaded to BCP having clipping errors. I don't remember the exact order of their placings, but here you go!

'Sexi Mexi' Presents "Diamond is Unbreakable"
Spoiler:

Battalion - Prophets of Flesh

Urien Rakarth
5 Wracks
5 Wracks
5 Wracks
6 Grotesques - Cleavers & Flesh Gauntlets
6 Grotesques - Cleavers & Flesh Gauntlets

Spearhead - Black Heart
Archon - Venom Blade - Warlord
Ravager - Triple Disintegrators, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Ravager - Triple Disintegrators, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Ravager - Triple Disintegrators, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Outrider - Silent Shroud
Shadowseer
Solitaire
4 Skyweavers - Haywire Cannons & Zephyr Glaives
4 Skyweavers - Haywire Cannons & Zephyr Glaives
4 Skyweavers - Haywire Cannons & Zephyr Glaives


Chris (Last Name Illegible) NOVA List
Spoiler:

Battalion - Drukhari

Haemonculus
Urien Rakarth
5 Wracks
5 Wracks
10 Wracks
3 Grotesques - Cleavers & Flesh Gauntlets
5 Grotesques - Cleavers & Flesh Gauntlets

Spearhead - Alliance of Agony
Archon - Venom Blade - Warlord - Writ of the Living Muse
Ravager - Triple Disintegrators
Ravager - Triple Disintegrators
Ravager - Triple Disintegrators
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2 Disintegrator Cannons
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2 Disintegrator Cannons

Battalion - Craftworld
Farseer Skyrunner
Spiritseer
Rangers
Rangers
Rangers
Hemlock Wraithfighter


Alan Blakerborough's NOVA List
-This one has lots crossed out and hand-written notes so it's extra hard to decipher-
Spoiler:

Catachan Brigade Detachment

Company Commander - The Laurels of Command
Company Commander - Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
Primaris Psyker
Infantry Squad - Mortar
Infantry Squad - Mortar
Infantry Squad - Mortar
Commissar
Commissar
Ogryn Bodyguard - Slabshield - Deathmask of Ollanius
Rough Riders
Rough Riders
Rough Riders
Heavy Weapons Squad - Mortars

Battalion - Blood Angels
Captain - Storm Shield - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer
Chief Librarian Mephiston
Scout Squad
Scout Squad
Scout Squad
Company Veterans - Jump Packs
Death Company - Jump Packs - 2x Power Swords

Custodes Supreme Command
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle
Vexilus Praetor (no note on which flag)


Shane Watts Presents 'Peace Through Dakka'
Spoiler:

Custodes Outrider
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle
Vexilla Praetor - Magnifica - Misericordia
7x Vertus Praetors
7x Vertus Praetors
3x Vertus Praetors

Battalion - KOK
Field Officer - Warlord - Grand Strategist
Field Officer - Kurov's Aquila
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad


Alex Ing's NOVA Open List
-This one is ENTIRELY handwritten and is probably the least decipherable of them all-
Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Detachment
House Raven
Knight Castellan - Two Siegbreakers
Knight Gallant - Iron Spear Missile Launcher
Knight Gallant - Iron Spear Missile Launcher

Battalion - Blood Angels
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield - Death Visions of Sanguinus
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield - Death Visions of Sanguinus
Scout Squad
Scout Squad
Scout Squad

Battalion - Cadian
Company Commander - Kurov's Aquila
Company Commander - Warlord - Grant Strategist
Infantry Squad - Mortars
Infantry Squad - Mortars
Infantry Squad - Mortars
Heavy Weapons Team - Mortars


Jason Curtis's NOVA List
Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Mortarion

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Magnus

Battalion - Thousand Sons
Ahriman - Disc of Tzeentch
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Malefic Talon - Warp Bolter - Wings - Warlord - Helm of the Third Eye
Sorcerer - Inferno Bolt Pistol
Chaos Cultists
25x Tzaangoers
25x Tzaangoers

BCP's picture has nothing else.



Nick Nanavati, King of Finlandia, Hunter of Trolls, Drinker of Drinks, Breaker of Models, Prophet of Fateweaver and Lord of the Warp Token Presents 'The NOVA Winning List'
-Note: While it won many games, this list did not win NOVA, contrary to its name.
Spoiler:

Battalion - Prophet of Flesh
Urien Rakarth
Haemonculus - Electro Whip (the heck font is that, Nick? I so cannot read it, haha)
7x Grotesques
7x Grotesques
5x Wracks
5x Wracks
5x Wracks

Battalion - Ynnari
Yncarne - Warlord - +1 Attack on the Charge
Eldrad
Spiritseer
10x Guardians - 2x Shuriken Cannons
Rangers
Rangers
9x Shining Spears - Exarch - Star Lance - Biel Tan

Auxiliary Detachment
9x Kabalite Warriors - Kabal of the Black Heart)



Erik Illegible's NOVA List
Spoiler:

Catachan Jungle Brigade
Col. Straken
Company Commander - Power Fist
Company Commander - Power Maul
Primaris Psyker
Primaris Psyker
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Astropath
Ogryn Bodyguard - Slab Shield - Ripper Gun
Ministorum Priest
Artemis Pattern Hellhound
Artemis Pattern Hellhound
Artemis Pattern Hellhound
Heavy Weapon Squad - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Squad - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Squad - Mortars

Battalion - Blood Angels
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield
Scout Squad
Scout Squad
Scout Squad

Super-Heavy Auxiliary
Knight Castellan - House Raven - 4x Shieldbreaker Missiles

He did run Grand Strategist and Kurov's Aquila but he didn't say on which Company Commanders (referencing what the models looked like, which I couldn't see from BCP). 1 Captain had Angel's Wing. 1 Captain had Veritas Vitae.



No Name Given's NOVA List
-Seriously guys, put your names on your lists. I beg you.
Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Auxiliary
Knight Castellan - 2 Siegebreakers

Battalion - Blood Angels
Captain - Jump Pack - Storm Shield - Thunder Hammer
Captain - Jump Pack - Storm Shield - Thunder Hammer
Scout Squad - Sergeant with Storm Bolter
Scout Squad - Sergeant with Storm Bolter
Scout Squad - Sergeant with Storm Bolter

Battalion - Astra Militarum
Company Commander - Warlord - Grand Strategist - Kurov's Aquila
Primaris Psyker
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Hellhound - Heavy Flamer
Hellhound - Heavy Flamer
2x Hellhounds
8x Bullgryns - 5x Brute Shields - 3x Slab Shields - 8x Mauls
Astropath
Ogryn Body Guard - Maul - Slab Shield



Andrew Gonyo's NOVA List
-This is the list that won.
Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Auxiliary
Knight Castellan - House Raven

Battalion - Blood Angels
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield
Captain - Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield
Scout Squad
Scout Squad
Scout Squad

Catachan Brigade
Primaris Psyker
Straken
Company Commander - Warlord - Grand Strategist - Kurov's Aquila
Priest
Ogryn Bodyguard - Slab Shield - Maul
10x Crusaders
8x Crusaders
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Scout Sentinel - Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel - Multilaser
Scout Sentinel - Multilaser
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars



Unprinted Name's NOVA List
Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Auxiliary
House Raven
Knight Castellan - Two Siegebreakers

Battalion - Blood Angels
Captain - Jump Pack - Storm Shield - Thunder Hammer - Angel's Wing
Captain - Jump Pack - Storm Shield - Thunder Hammer
Scout Squad - Shotgun on Sergeant
Scout Squad - Shotgun on Sergeant
Scout Squad - Shotgun on Sergeant

Catachan Brigade
Company Commander - Warlord - Grand Strategist
Company Commander - Kurov's Aquila
Col. Straken
Infantry Squad - Mortar
Infantry Squad - Mortar
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Ministorum Priest
Astropath
Platoon Commander - Power Fist
3x Hellhound
3x Heavy Weapon Squad - Mortar



I think there are a lot in common between these lists (Captain Slamguinuses, Catachans, Grand Strategist + Kurov's Aquila, Raven Knight Castellans, lack of Necrons/Tau at all) that show some problems with 40k's balance while the lack of a few things could point to some supposedly overpowered units actually being O.K. (Custodes Captains on Dawneagles, Ynnari/Soulburst). What do you all think?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/04 16:59:04


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Audustum wrote:

while the lack of a few things could point to some supposedly overpowered units actually being O.K. (Custodes Captains on Dawneagles, Ynnari/Soulburst). What do you all think?


That's an insanely stupid conclusion.

There are maybe 100 Million lists possible in 40K (no idea, but it's a lot). A unit or list that is in the, say, top million is still insanely OP in the game as a whole, even if it perhaps doesn't cut the top 50,000 of the ITC tournament circuit.


The sample here is far too small and skewed to make a conclusion like that.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/03 20:08:34


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Oh look... Imperial Soup winning with tons of Infantry Squads and other units like Rough Riders and Hellhounds...

Yeah, thats proof that Infantry Squads are absolutely fine.

Also... soo much Dark Eldar. To be honest, this is probably the "TOP" of all the big tournaments we have had of 8th that I like the least. Everything was expected. Imperial Soup (IG+BA+AC+IK), DE, The Ahriman Bomb. No surprirses, not that much variety.

I'm hoping 2018 CA shakes up things a bit, slaping in the buttcheks DE, IG, Custodes with Vertus Praetors and Jetbike captains (I play custodes but normal Custodian Guard+Terminators, a couple Jetbikes, etc... and as much as people say they are absolutely fine for competitive play, they just don't make the cut for the big tournaments) and Imperial Knights. And a little here and there with BA Captain, Chaos, etc..

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/03 20:20:45


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Boring!
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




While a certain streak can be found among all those lists, it is nice to see that they are not identical.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Really boring lists. Exactly what you would expect though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote:
While a certain streak can be found among all those lists, it is nice to see that they are not identical.

The BA detachment is always he same. Min scouts (because they are the cheapest option) and 2 Captain smash.
DE always includes Urien and 2 units of wrack + a BH detach with 3 ravager with dessie.
It's always a Raven Castellan.
The only real variety that exists is how many IG units make it into the imperial soup. Will it be a Straken batallion? Will it be hell hounds? Or just a min CP bat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/03 20:28:57


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






Aeldari soup and Imperial soup dominating another GT? Who'd have thunk it?!

I think this is the final nail of the 4pt Infantryman coffin.

GW needs to start penalising soup in some way too. Otherwise we'll never see the end of these IK+IG+Slamguinius/Custodes/Wolftime lists.

At least the Chaos list is a little interesting.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





Audustum wrote:
lack of Necrons/Tau at all
Lack of pretty much everything.
3x DE Prophet of Flesh medleys
7x guard batteries with a mix of smash captains, bikers, custode, and House Raven Castellans
And a morty and magnus list

Would not be in the least bit surprised to see chapter approved kill the cp battery... and quite possibly custodes.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





IMO making command points apply only to the specific faction keyword that generated them would go a long way in balancing soup lists with the 3 from battleforged applying to your warlord's detachment.


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
IMO making command points apply only to the specific faction keyword that generated them would go a long way in balancing soup lists with the 3 from battleforged applying to your warlord's detachment.


That would basically kill allies. Might as well just say no allies.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Xenomancers wrote:
 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
IMO making command points apply only to the specific faction keyword that generated them would go a long way in balancing soup lists with the 3 from battleforged applying to your warlord's detachment.


That would basically kill allies. Might as well just say no allies.

Might not be a bad thing, for matched play.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Xenomancers wrote:
That would basically kill allies. Might as well just say no allies.
Why? The the allied factions would have CPs to spend, just not any more than they had contributed.

Though i'm still of the opinion that CPs should be based on points and a couple paid out for detachments (similar to the support detachment cost) - kills two birds with one stone as the guard CP battery becomes something like -1 CP for a bunch of chaff rather than +5 CP.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




I agree CP batteries are a problem. My solution is to handle it with points though. Bring back an allies matrix, but instead of saying "you can all with X, but not with Y" have it increase the points cost of your allies based on faction.

So Custodes could all with IG, but at 50% increased coat since they don't work together too often. Conversely, Imperial Knights can ally with Mechanicus with only a small 10% increase since they work together all the time.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

A few thoughts:

Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars

Is this trying to say "Heavy Weapons Squad"? Because HWTs aren't an option by themselves. If we could see the points, that'd make it a bit more clear.
There was another list that had a single one listed similarly, like Heavy Weapons Teams were being used as a Heavy Support choice--if these were individual teams, that is way hinky. It's a difference between a single team's points and full squads of 3 teams.
Given that the individual who wrote that list had 3 singles of Scout Sentinels it makes me wonder if he ran them this way.


Company Commander - Power Maul

Unless I've missed something somewhere, Power Mauls aren't an option in the codex. We get Power Swords and Power Fists. The only Mauls even in the book are Bullgryn Mauls. I've checked the official GW FAQs and can't find mention of Power Mauls.


All told, it stresses what I've been arguing for. DITCH MORTARS FROM INFANTRY SQUADS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Aeldari soup and Imperial soup dominating another GT? Who'd have thunk it?!

I think this is the final nail of the 4pt Infantryman coffin.


Like I've said, repeatedly now, it showcases that soup is a major issue. It also shows that damnit, we need to ditch Mortars as an option for Infantry Squads.

GW needs to start penalising soup in some way too. Otherwise we'll never see the end of these IK+IG+Slamguinius/Custodes/Wolftime lists.

Said it before, saying it again:
Force a declaration of a primary faction, remove the ability to purchase Relics as Stratagem boosters and instead tie it to filled out Detachments. Also remove the ability for anything to be taken outside of "Auxiliary" detachments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/03 21:15:36


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Glad to see so much diversity in the top tables

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Kanluwen wrote:
A few thoughts:

Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars

Is this trying to say "Heavy Weapons Squad"? Because HWTs aren't an option by themselves. If we could see the points, that'd make it a bit more clear.
There was another list that had a single one listed similarly, like Heavy Weapons Teams were being used as a Heavy Support choice--if these were individual teams, that is way hinky. It's a difference between a single team's points and full squads of 3 teams.
Given that the individual who wrote that list had 3 singles of Scout Sentinels it makes me wonder if he ran them this way.


Company Commander - Power Maul

Unless I've missed something somewhere, Power Mauls aren't an option in the codex. We get Power Swords and Power Fists. The only Mauls even in the book are Bullgryn Mauls. I've checked the official GW FAQs and can't find mention of Power Mauls.


All told, it stresses what I've been arguing for. DITCH MORTARS FROM INFANTRY SQUADS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Aeldari soup and Imperial soup dominating another GT? Who'd have thunk it?!

I think this is the final nail of the 4pt Infantryman coffin.


Like I've said, repeatedly now, it showcases that soup is a major issue. It also shows that damnit, we need to ditch Mortars as an option for Infantry Squads.

GW needs to start penalising soup in some way too. Otherwise we'll never see the end of these IK+IG+Slamguinius/Custodes/Wolftime lists.

Said it before, saying it again:
Force a declaration of a primary faction, remove the ability to purchase Relics as Stratagem boosters and instead tie it to filled out Detachments. Also remove the ability for anything to be taken outside of "Auxiliary" detachments.


Yeah, they we're Heavy Weapons Teams with Mortars in the HS slot.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Hi not important but annoyed point is that they were not Heavy Weapons Teams, which are a model, but Heavy Weapons Squads, a unit made up of Heavy Weapons Teams.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/03 21:34:49


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Relics being free was quite possibly GW's dumbest decision to date. Make them purchased items again.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 alextroy wrote:
Hi not important but annoyed point is that they were not Heavy Weapons Teams, which are a model, but Heavy Weapons Squads, a unit made up of Heavy Weapons Teams.

Those people should be penalized or seriously should have their armies scrutinized at this point.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Relics being free was quite possibly GW's dumbest decision to date. Make them purchased items again.

It's a single free relic - it is kinda cool. Every army gets it.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Relics being free was quite possibly GW's dumbest decision to date. Make them purchased items again.

Honestly, making them purchased items might be just as bad.

Gonna harp on it again, I like AoS' relic system better. You get one to start with and need to have Warscroll Battalions to add another one.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Kanluwen wrote:
A few thoughts:

Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars
Heavy Weapon Team - Mortars

Is this trying to say "Heavy Weapons Squad"? Because HWTs aren't an option by themselves. If we could see the points, that'd make it a bit more clear.
There was another list that had a single one listed similarly, like Heavy Weapons Teams were being used as a Heavy Support choice--if these were individual teams, that is way hinky. It's a difference between a single team's points and full squads of 3 teams.
Given that the individual who wrote that list had 3 singles of Scout Sentinels it makes me wonder if he ran them this way.


Company Commander - Power Maul

Unless I've missed something somewhere, Power Mauls aren't an option in the codex. We get Power Swords and Power Fists. The only Mauls even in the book are Bullgryn Mauls. I've checked the official GW FAQs and can't find mention of Power Mauls.


All told, it stresses what I've been arguing for. DITCH MORTARS FROM INFANTRY SQUADS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Aeldari soup and Imperial soup dominating another GT? Who'd have thunk it?!

I think this is the final nail of the 4pt Infantryman coffin.


Like I've said, repeatedly now, it showcases that soup is a major issue. It also shows that damnit, we need to ditch Mortars as an option for Infantry Squads.

GW needs to start penalising soup in some way too. Otherwise we'll never see the end of these IK+IG+Slamguinius/Custodes/Wolftime lists.

Said it before, saying it again:
Force a declaration of a primary faction, remove the ability to purchase Relics as Stratagem boosters and instead tie it to filled out Detachments. Also remove the ability for anything to be taken outside of "Auxiliary" detachments.

They take the mortars because they have some points left over - not because they are mandatory to the battery. Mortars being 5 points is obviously the problem with mortars.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Xenomancers wrote:

They take the mortars because they have some points left over - not because they are mandatory to the battery. Mortars being 5 points is obviously the problem with mortars.

They take Mortars because they're better than other options. They're cheap and were able to be used even when a unit is hidden out of LOS.

Mortars being 5pts doesn't mean jack when they can only be taken on a Heavy Support choice.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Kanluwen wrote:
Like I've said, repeatedly now, it showcases that soup is a major issue. It also shows that damnit, we need to ditch Mortars as an option for Infantry Squads.


There is a prevalence of Infantry Squads at the top tables. Not just for CP farming either.

It's a problem and at this stage, an obvious one.

Soup is another issue but still an issue nonetheless.

Mortars in Infantry squads feels like a distraction.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






A.T. wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
That would basically kill allies. Might as well just say no allies.
Why? The the allied factions would have CPs to spend, just not any more than they had contributed.

Though i'm still of the opinion that CPs should be based on points and a couple paid out for detachments (similar to the support detachment cost) - kills two birds with one stone as the guard CP battery becomes something like -1 CP for a bunch of chaff rather than +5 CP.

That could be a solution. I posted a CP change a while back. Every army starts with equal CP - taking allied detachments cost command points and taking anything but battalion and brigades cost command points.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Like I've said, repeatedly now, it showcases that soup is a major issue. It also shows that damnit, we need to ditch Mortars as an option for Infantry Squads.


There is a prevalence of Infantry Squads at the top tables. Not just for CP farming either.

It's a problem and at this stage, an obvious one.

Soup is another issue but still an issue nonetheless.

Mortars in Infantry squads feels like a distraction.

That's your problem then. Because it is a problem and part of why I kept harping on the change for Conscripts+Commissars being a bad idea back when it happened. I flatout called this crap in that the soup would just shift from Conscripts+Commissars to Infantry Squads and a CC.

Why do people take Infantry Squads instead of Conscripts right now?
-Cost
-Options

I can take an Infantry Squad of 10 guys with a HWT that can hunker down out of LOS on an objective and huck a mortar shot at you--Conscripts can't do that.

Why Infantry Squads instead of Scions as groundpounders?
-I shouldn't have to explain this to anyone.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Kanluwen wrote:

That's your problem then. Because it is a problem and part of why I kept harping on the change for Conscripts+Commissars being a bad idea back when it happened. I flatout called this crap in that the soup would just shift from Conscripts+Commissars to Infantry Squads and a CC.

Why do people take Infantry Squads instead of Conscripts right now?
-Cost
-Options

I can take an Infantry Squad of 10 guys with a HWT that can hunker down out of LOS on an objective and huck a mortar shot at you--Conscripts can't do that.

4 ppm infantry are a problem for the game. I think people take them because they are the best point for point objective holder in the game bar none.
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





North-East UK

People are shocked that GT lists are not original?

Well colour me surprised, who would have thought the most competitive players would make the most boring lists to eliminate all random chance, call it "Strategy" and people are wanting to be surprised?

It's always been this way, look at every edition in the past.

If someone brings a mono-Night Lord list and wins a GT like this then I'll be surprised and take that scene more seriously.

.

Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
Batman Miniatures Game: Mr.Freeze, Joker
Ever wanted a better 5th ed. 40k? Take a look at 5th ed. Reforged! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794253.page 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Kanluwen wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
Hi not important but annoyed point is that they were not Heavy Weapons Teams, which are a model, but Heavy Weapons Squads, a unit made up of Heavy Weapons Teams.

Those people should be penalized or seriously should have their armies scrutinized at this point.


That was a me thing not a them thing. We aren't ALL encyclopedic AM players and it is fairly minor.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Relics being free was quite possibly GW's dumbest decision to date. Make them purchased items again.

Honestly, making them purchased items might be just as bad.

Gonna harp on it again, I like AoS' relic system better. You get one to start with and need to have Warscroll Battalions to add another one.

I'd need a better descriptor of how that works for AoS. As is, YEAH purchasing might be bad, and GW never repriced Relics in 7th.

However, you can always reprice a Relic per how effective it is. I can straight tell you that it's kinda silly that I would pick The Spartean over Teeth of Terra or The Shield Eternal when all these items are free. GW with Chapter Approved shows that they aren't afraid to put new prices on various items.

Let's even assume that the Aquila works so that you only get 1Cp from it max a turn. You're not gonna choose the Power Sword relic ever because they have the same cost: 0 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 The Warp Forge wrote:
People are shocked that GT lists are not original?

Well colour me surprised, who would have thought the most competitive players would make the most boring lists to eliminate all random chance, call it "Strategy" and people are wanting to be surprised?

It's always been this way, look at every edition in the past.

If someone brings a mono-Night Lord list and wins a GT like this then I'll be surprised and take that scene more seriously.

.

People bring the best lists that are most likely to win. Get over it. "Take seriously" like you would've ever done anything competitively.

If anything, those odd ball lists that do only well on occasion aren't healthy because people will just assume the game is balanced when it isn't. How else do you expect GW to know there's problem units?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/03 22:57:28


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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